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Reporting US Forever Stamp Sales that Appear to be Counterfeit. (Keep the Discussion to Stamps only)

I know this topic has been discussed by various Categories and Forums over the years, but I think it belongs here on the Stamp Board.  For the past couple of months I've noticed an increasing number of listings for US Forever Stamps that appear to be Counterfeits.  It's not only occurring on eBay, but also on Amazon, Walmart, Etsy, and other sites devoted to discounts on stamps.  Most of the suspicious sales have been sourced out of China but sales also are showing up from US sources.

 

Some Users, mainly from China and some from the US, show blatant disregard to the eBay Selling Policy and eBay certainly doesn't have Stamp Experts determining what is real or fake.  Because no one at eBay appears to be monitoring suspect sales, I believe it is up to the Stamp Community to let them know what listings fall into the 'To Good to be True' category.   

 

I've had conversations with eBay regarding suspect Counterfeit Sales to determine the best method to deal with suspicious listings.  They told me that using the "Report Item" button on a listing will inform them that the item being sold should be investigated.   

To Report an Item. 

Press the 'Report Item' button above 'Item Specifics' on the listing in question.

File a Report Page Appears.

     Report Category

          I select 'Prohibited and restricted items'

     Reason for Report

         I select 'Stamps, currency, and coins'

     Detailed Reason

         I select 'Other currency and stamp concerns'

     Brief Description

         You can enter your suspicions here.

     Submit

 

With that bit of knowledge I have been reviewing listings in the US Postage Category.  It isn't hard to determine items that are suspected of being Counterfeit.  I concentrated on US Forever Stamps Sales looking at the listing price or sales price versus face value.  All the Flag stamps from primarily 2017 thru 2022, most of the Booklets from 2019 thru 2022, and a lot of Sheets from 2020-2022 are suspected of being Counterfeited . The old adage 'You'll Know it when you see it" applies.  At first Buy it Now items selling at approximately half face value were no brainers.  Then I had to decide how to determine if sellers using the Auction format got around the obvious hall price sale.  That took a little more investigation.  It helped to look at the seller's 'Sold Listings".   If the amounts received from Auction sales still had huge discount repeatedly, then its suspicious.   One-offs do occur where a seller just wants to dump stamps for whatever reason.  That's why looking at not only the current listing but See Other Items listed for sale and Sold Listings are important to review

 

The Stamp Community has to step up and make an effort to stop Counterfeit Listings.  If eBay receives multiple Report Item complaints they may actually act.   You should be concerned if you are a Seller because your prices are being undermined.   If you are a Buyer, your concern would be not knowing if what you bought was real.   

 

In additional posts, I will let the Board know what I've discovered fighting this problem and hopefully persuade the Community to act. 

Message 1 of 96
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Reporting US Forever Stamp Sales that Appear to be Counterfeit. (Keep the Discussion to Stamps only)

We have dealt with various forms of counterfeits on eBay for pretty much 20+ years now and experience shows that you can report all you want, but the seller has to be VERY blatant before anything happens to them other than perhaps a listing removal. As with other venues, like Amazon and Walmart, they say they are only there to provide a sales venue and can't be expected to vet all listings. Feel free to continue to report them but unless the listings directly affect the various searches people here are using you likely won't see a concerted effort to report the bad apples.

Message 2 of 96
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Reporting US Forever Stamp Sales that Appear to be Counterfeit. (Keep the Discussion to Stamps only)

I have reported on Walmart selling US Forever stamps on this Board.  In my latest viewing of their Stamp listings I no longer see sourcing from China.  They have disappeared.  Maybe complaining and reporting suspicious items worked there.

Message 3 of 96
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Reporting US Forever Stamp Sales that Appear to be Counterfeit. (Keep the Discussion to Stamps only)

The following is from buried in eBay's Seller Information.

________________________________________________________________________________________________

"Counterfeit stamps can't be sold on eBay, while collectible and replica stamps must follow our policy.

We want our members to buy with confidence, so we've created a set of guidelines for selling stamps.

What is the policy?

  • Counterfeit stamps and equipment designed to make these items are not allowed
  • Collectible stamps must include a picture of the actual item being sold and specify any alterations or flaws not seen in the photo
  • For replica stamps, the listing’s title, description and photos must clearly state or show that the item is a replica
  • Forever Stamps can be sold by eligible sellers only

Activity that doesn't follow eBay policy could result in a range of actions including for example: administratively ending or canceling listings, hiding or demoting all listings from search results, lowering seller rating, buying or selling restrictions, and account suspension. All fees paid or payable in relation to listings or accounts on which we take any action will not be refunded or otherwise credited to your account."

__________________________________________________________________________________________

 

What struck me from this policy was that they specifically spelled out special treatment for US Forever Stamps.  The other notable point was that 'US Forever Stamps can be sold by eligible sellers only'.   Somewhere within policy there is a definition of who is an 'eligible seller.   Damned if I can find it but if memory serves me right, a seller must be in good standing, have a history of selling items blah, blah. 

 

In recent days I've gone through Listings within the United States US Postage Category.  My purpose was to determine who was selling US Forever Stamps at discounted prices.   If so, are they selling Counterfeit Stamps.  It goes beyond logic that Sellers have access to vast quantities of legitimate US Forever Stamps and in turn, sell them at half price, especially if sourced from China.  A pattern soon developed in that almost all discounted stamps were from China.  Prices for the most part were at least 50% off face value.  My latest tally was for 75 different Sellers.  Five are from the US, one from Australia, one from the UK, the rest from China.  

 

Using the 'Report Item' button within the listings I have asked eBay to investigate these Sellers, more than once when viewing multiple listings.  Some days eBay notified me that I reached my Reporting Limit for the day.

 

The explanations used were 'Selling US Forever Stamps at huge discounts.  Known Counterfeits exist.' and for the New Seller 'Ineligible to sell US Forever Stamps per eBay Selling Policy.'   Your basis for filing a report is limited to 100 characters.

 

There are Sellers being taken down since I've taken an interest.  I've counted almost 20 Sellers that have their listings removed, ended by seller, or out of stock.  Histories of Sold items have also been removed, although eBay told me they wouldn't.  The big question is "How many newbies will pop up to replace the takedowns".   Is this going to be a game of Whack-o-mole.

 

 

 

 

 

Message 4 of 96
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Reporting US Forever Stamp Sales that Appear to be Counterfeit. (Keep the Discussion to Stamps only)

The last few days I've come across some extraordinary listings.  All of these are in the United States - Postage Category.  Here are some examples.

 

The first deals with a Seller mainly listing and selling US Forever Flag Coil Rolls of 100 stamps from various years.   From the end of April 2022 to July 11, the seller sold approximately 18,500 stamps for a sum of $5,700. Face value was $10,730 at 58 cents per stamp.  Currently seller has 20 rolls in 2 listings for sale.   I believe eBay is in the midst of taking the listings down.   Would you consider the stamps Counterfeit?

 

The second is of foreign/US origin.  Again selling US Forever Flag Coil Rolls of 100 stamps.  There appears to be Multiple user ID's for a single group or individual because the verbiage of the listings and photos are exact or close to it.  This Seller/Sellers sold 255 rolls for $2506.  Face value was $14,790 at 58 cents per stamp.  EBay is investigating.  Would you consider the stamps Counterfeit?

 

The third is a little complicated as the discounts for Selling US Forever Stamps aren't  as blatant as the half-priced first 2 examples.  This Seller has 60 plus current Forever Stamp listings, selling them for the same quantity and price.  That entails $49.99 for 100 stamps in sheets or booklets.  What intrigued me was some of the issues being sold were not typical discounted or Counterfeited stamps. Here are some of the bargains in the listings in quantities of 5, all are Forever Stamps:

     2017 Sharks - More than 10 sets of 5 sheets Available

     2017 Flowers from the Garden - More than 10 sets of 5 Booklets Available

     2011 Vanishing Species Semi-Postal - More than 10 sets of 5 sheets Available

     2021 Sun Science - More than 10 sets of 5 sheets Available

     2021 Raven Story - More than 10 sets of 5 Sheets Available

     2014 Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer - More than 10 sets of 5 Booklets Available 

     2011  Wedding Roses - More than 10 sets of 5 Sheets Available

     2012 Bonsai Trees - More than 10 sets of 5 Booklets Available

     2020 Lunar New Year of the Rat - More than 10 sets of 5 Sheets Available

The Seller had 2 Different Butterfly Non-machinable Listings 5 Sheets each for the same $49.99, face value is $99 each, but I see eBay took them down.  As a kicker the Seller sent me a Promotional discount offering of 10% for items I had in my Watch List.  Also the more you bought the lower the price from $49.99 down to $44.99.  One more thing, newly listed is 5 rolls of 100 Forever Flag Stamps for $155.     

     Something  is going on here.  I can't grasp the fact that all the sheets and booklets in my small list can be sold at premiums instead of discounts.  Then there is the quantity available for each stamp.  Seems to be an endless supply.  Would you consider these listings legitimate?

 

To Be Continued.

     

Message 5 of 96
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Reporting US Forever Stamp Sales that Appear to be Counterfeit. (Keep the Discussion to Stamps only)

I'm afraid you might be jumping the gun here.  I have bought the stamps you're talking about, in fact I'm supplying a scan of a package right now.  In years gone by stamps were printed by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing of the federal government.  A number of years back this enterprise was shifted to public companies.  So when stamps are printed they don't become property of the USPS until after they have been printed, cut into rolls or sheets or whatever, then shrink wrapped.  A single coil issue may be printed by several different companies; each one will have stamped its name on the little paper seal around the stamps.  (In the scan you can see mine were printed by BCA, whoever that is.  I also have a roll of the same issue from AO1.)

 

The government had very strict controls of what went in and what went out of the printing office.  Partly this was because currency was printed there as well as stamps.  Private companies, who print many millions of stamps from myriad issues, have very little economic incentive to keep expensive theft prevention regimes in place.  I would guarantee that employees of these companies walk off with product all the time.  It's not like they are up against the security in a diamond mine.

 

Printing self adhesive die cut stamps is not an easy process. The Post Office's history making self adhesive die cut stamps is one of multiple disasters over the first 20 years.  I see little reason to think that China for example would be interested in making a few thousand bucks here and there on counterfeit US stamps.  It would take millions to set such an enterprise up.

 

The Postal Service has also been so denuded of operating funds that they make no attempt to ensure stamped mail is even cancelled anymore.  I don't see them cultivating an interest in stamps that may or may not be counterfeit.  Further, I don't think you have made the case yet that the stamps I bought or that other people are buying are counterfeit.

 

forever.jpg

 

 

Message 6 of 96
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Reporting US Forever Stamp Sales that Appear to be Counterfeit. (Keep the Discussion to Stamps only)

Your printed label for the 2018 Forever Coil doesn't determine anything.  I would suggest looking at the Postal Counterfeit Section of Scott's Specialized Catalog.  My 2021 copy of Scott's has 36 different examples of Counterfeits for the 2018 Flag, Scott numbers 5260, 5261, 5262, and 5263.  The BCA style wrapper included.

 

Linn's Stamp News also has some articles on Counterfeits.

 

You are right about the USPS.  To get them interested it seems you need to buy the Counterfeits and turn them over with filing a claim.   Their reply when contacting the Inspector General's Office via phone.  "File a Claim. Have a nice day."

 

Employee theft?  That's quite a reach unless the printers are located in China.  Speaking of China, they knock off everything else, why not Stamps?

Message 7 of 96
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Reporting US Forever Stamp Sales that Appear to be Counterfeit. (Keep the Discussion to Stamps only)

I think you touched upon a key source of these stamps...stolen or pilferage of books/coils would explain the abundance and widespread sale of these discounted stamps.  The solution may lie with the contract printers placing stricter controls rather than the USPS policing up the problem.

 

Message 8 of 96
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Reporting US Forever Stamp Sales that Appear to be Counterfeit. (Keep the Discussion to Stamps only)

Interesting, thank you!

Message 9 of 96
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Reporting US Forever Stamp Sales that Appear to be Counterfeit. (Keep the Discussion to Stamps only)

If the problem lies with contract printers, you wouldn't be able to see differences.  Such as Tagged versus Non-tagged, Microprinting differences, perforations, pixel dots, etc.    

Message 10 of 96
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Reporting US Forever Stamp Sales that Appear to be Counterfeit. (Keep the Discussion to Stamps only)

The Big 7.

 

Spending time going through the listings some things stand out.  Items sometimes look similar, same words, same fonts, same description, and same shipping info.   If there are differences in the listings it usually is the quantities being sold.   Then I started noticing the Seller ID's were different for these look-a-likes and started searching individual stamps to see any common traits.  The results were surprising.  I found 7 different Sellers sharing the same formats, verbiage, and even photos.  From the 7 Sellers there are 26 different US Forever Stamps being sold as auctions, meaning each of the 7 is selling up to 26 different stamps.

 

These are the stamps being sold.

 

Stamp                                                  Quantity Listed     Listed Price      Sold Price

2020 Winter Scenes                                6 Booklets        $25                   $25

2020 Contemporary Boutonniere     8 Sheets            $29                  $29

2019 Holiday Wreaths                            10 Booklets       $33                  $33

2017 Flag                                                       5 Rolls                $80                  $80

2021 Espresso Drink                                 5 Booklets       $23                  $23.50

2019 Animal Frogs                                     6 Booklets       $31                   $31

2019 Flag                                                       5 Rolls               $80                  $80

2021 Happy Birthday                                7 Sheets           $28                  $28

2022 Sunflower Love                               4 Sheets           $21

2018 Love Flourishes                               5 Sheets           $23                 $23

2019 Flag                                                     10 Booklets      $33                 $33

2022 Flag                                                      5 Rolls              $100               $117.50 

2020 Fruit & Vegetable                          9 Booklets      $31                   $31

2016 Florentine Madonna                      8 Booklets      $29                  $29

2022 Flag                                                      9 Sheets          $31                   $31

2022 Lunar New Year of Tiger             10 Sheets         $33                 $33

2021 Otters in Snow                                  9 Booklets      $31                  $31

2021 Mid Atlantic Lighthouses           10 Sheets          $33                 $33

2022 Mountain Flora                                7 Booklets      $27                  $27

2020 Our Lady of Guapulo                    5 Booklets      $23                 $23

2021 Garden Beauty                                 9 Booklets      $31                  $31

2019 Winter Berries                                   5 Booklets      $23                 $23

2020 Wild Orchids                                    7 Booklets      $27                  $27

2018 Flag                                                        7 Rolls              $110                 $110

2022 Flag                                                       9 Booklets      $31                   $31

2019 Cactus Flowers                                 9 Booklets      $31                   $31

 

All of the above are a sample of suspected Counterfeits being sold on eBay and other sites.

 

   

Message 11 of 96
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Reporting US Forever Stamp Sales that Appear to be Counterfeit. (Keep the Discussion to Stamps only)

The simple thing would be to get a few suspect items, and bring them to the nearest Postal Inspector......  I'll pitch in a few bucks if someone wants to do a Go Fund Me?

Message 12 of 96
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Reporting US Forever Stamp Sales that Appear to be Counterfeit. (Keep the Discussion to Stamps only)

OK, we disagree.

 

But rather than putting up lengthy posts here, where there is no one who could take action, why don't you buy a sampling of the stamps you think are counterfeit and submit them to the Postal Inspector as is suggested by grworldstamps in post #12?  Then you could report back to us on your results.

 

jaywild

Message 13 of 96
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Reporting US Forever Stamp Sales that Appear to be Counterfeit. (Keep the Discussion to Stamps only)


Your quote: "Speaking of China, they knock off everything else, why not Stamps?"

 

The things China knocks off are worth real money, such as Rolexes, designer handbags, etc.  Stamps, very hard to produce self-stick die cut ones--it's hard to imagine a plot to counterfeit them and expect to make a fortune.


 

Message 14 of 96
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Reporting US Forever Stamp Sales that Appear to be Counterfeit. (Keep the Discussion to Stamps only)

Blow the lid off of the whole counterfeit US stamps from China thing, and get on 60 Minutes and the New York Time!  🙂

Message 15 of 96
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