WARNING Misdescribed chess sets on ebay!

[r.van.der.veur]

Use this thread to notify group members about misdescribed chess sets on ebay.

[dancing_with_volves]

Pawns do not look to match as well.

[chesspurr]

thanks kristjansander, i guess i need a fresh eye test. being serious its good to see inputs so quickly , as the auction has yet to end. top -antiques ... right ... and i can fly !!!!

[ne0romantic]

on a darker note, item 200061415276 Wow! This kind of set is misrepresented all the time, but usually sellers who don't know what the heck it is are at least honest about it. 'ivory, not bone' is a quote from this listing. Of course the exact opposite is true, and it's Mexican not Indian, AND vintage not antique. Calling it the 'anglo faces' instead of the 'gaudi faces' makes me wonder if the seller knows exactly what he has and is purposely misleading. Can a seller possibly get that high an approval rating with those kinds of tactics?! I have to assume the seller is just ignorant, and over-confident in his half educated guesses. Anyway we Americans are all idiots or crooks like our president, right? This kind of listing with a 'God bless America' makes me sick.

[worldwide509]

Well of course it was a funny mistake. As a matter of fact, that's why I posted the comment. It was VERY funny, at least to me. The seller was in a rush trying to place as many items for a Christmas sale that he missed the Old English font reading 11th instead of UTH. As you fellows said the dealer mean no harm or desire to cheat. As for my comment, I really wasn't upset, just such an obvious mistake I couldn't believe it.

[chesspurr]

take a look at top-antiques item number 290036738085 described as antique barleycorn english set. lets ignore the barleycorn knights ???? lets ignore the date ??? lets ignore the buy it now price??? just take a good look ... a extra good look at the red king and queen , then the white king and queen ... see if you can spot the leper piece !!!!. top[ antiques my ass you are !!!.

[dwolf359]

to NEO re 200061415276 I saw that too Neo and sent the seller the following message to shed a little light: Hello, Just wanted to point out that your auction for the chess set is mis-described. The set is a SPANISH PULPIT design with GUADY FACES and was manufactured in Mexico. The material is cow bone and NOT ivory. Condition looks very good for this type of set and is probably mid-20th century. This set is referenced in Victor Keats' ILLUSTRATED GUIDE TO WORLD CHESS SETS, pages 223-224. ISBN 0-312-40799-8. St. Martin's Press, NY, 1985. This design has had long run from the late 1880s to the present day. Mexican artisans have never used ivory as a material. Besides cow bone, this design has been made in wood and plastic, but NEVER ivory. You don't want to mislead your potential bidders, so you may want to change your description to reflect these facts. Good luck with your auction. dwolf359 I don't know if I was the one to cause him to end the auction early (perhaps it was brought to his attention by others as well). But it did the trick. Hope he does consider re-listing with the correct information. I think it's a very nice example. --- dwolf359

[ne0romantic]

Hey dwolf359, I shot him off something similar but not quite as in depth as the to years the design was made. It's probably a good thing that he has more than one message corroborating the facts. I'm happy to see the listing going early and believe he will relist with the correct information. I don't believe this listing intended to mislead. I overreacted with the obligatory 'God bless' hit a nerve. The 'topantiques' listings on the other hand? Well I don't know about those. It's hard to believe they didn't 'match' the sets up themselves.

[dwolf359]

Neo, The Spanish Pulpit set has been re-listed as 200061415276 just as you anticipated. Info was corrected. The seller sent me a thank you. No doubt that a second e-mail to corroborate set him off on the right path. Have already placed a bid myself since it is in very nice condition. The shipping is a bit on the high side though. One the topantiques listings, I'm pretty much steering clear of them since I really don't collect ivory sets and i'm a fish out of water regarding pre-Staunton sets altogether. I'll leave those up to the fine folks here who have that expertise. Cheers! dwolf359

[r.van.der.veur]

I also placed a bid on relisted item 200061675049.

[computojon]

Guy -- regarding topantiques' sale that you discussed in an earlier post, 290036738085 -- I copied the photos and put the Kings & Queens side-by-side, then zoomed in. Here's the result http://www.crumiller.com/chess/chess_photos/photos/TopAntiques_KingQueenComparison.JPG It's important to focus on features only, not size because the individual photos could have been taken from slightly different distances or angles. So what is the conclusion? I don't know. Granted, there are slight variations (especially red King) but my question is whether the variations exceed the "threshold" so that we would conclude that they're replacement pieces. I'm not sure.

[disphania]

RE 290036738085, I thought they were in perhaps acceptable range until I checked the first turnings above the base. It seems the white are both of a set and the red of another. Seeing this with the side by side photos was a big help.

[chesspurr]

hi jon i agree with you 100 % ... to slander a seller with little study is not good. i think your photos show clearly something is wrong here. he has three sets all described as magnificent , he calls himself top _ antiques , and yet these photos suggest his well laid out description is full of holes. now i see a private bidder is in the hunt for the lund ? fisher ??!!, i sure hope the reserve for his sake is low.

[chesspurr]

here is an issue worth looking at when considering possible variations of older sets. work from the bases up to the piece head. what i look for is signature of each section in detail , if the sections vary with disks balls , i worry , then i consider the possibilities of pieces being unscrewed and re joined incorrectly , thus the set is correct but an error or two has been made in the re assembly. kings and queens are often mixed up and the king has the queens body etc , pretty common this.then i add constant observations of e bay auctions ,plus ones own sets ,and the iffy looking sets seem to jump at you .they look wrong ... the signature is messed up. when a seller who deals in antiques , a professional puts together a good looking listing , and should know better ... well i simply double check ... a typical reaction as i have been well and truly taken in the past. i am convinced those sets in this discussion are flawed and the lund/fisher is the most worrying for any buyer. having been to a restorers work shop and seen a little of turning work being done , thus getting a handle on what is done sure helps in ones analysis. having a fellow group member living around the corner offers additional inputs , plus visiting portabello market and seeing the odd CHANCER at it !!! well that just about clinches it for me. many many sets are composite out there ,they are bought at auctions for a profit by non chess experts , for a reason, they trade ... we are the buyers , care is necessary ,and the good chess sellers win, when they double check sets ... before buying them. happy x mas dermotr jacdu latviangambit rookx these guys know what they are doing ... my apologies frank .. house of staunton and chessqueen ... we europeans cannot ignore the good olde usa.

[ne0romantic]

And then of course there's this seller: 250067356711 I didn't tell him/her this time it's bone and mexican, because I've tried before and s/he doesn't believe me or flat out refuses to change the name and description be accurate. S/he is rude as well. Let me quote "it is not bone just because you say it is ... I wouldn't want to sell to you anyway." At least the starting bid closer to reasonable this time. And with good reason, I suppose. S/he sold one of these wood/bone sets for over $300 by saying it was ivory and s/he had no idea where it came from. They usually go for closer to $50. I suppose by claiming not to know this seller protects him/herself from item not as described complaints. So I suppose it makes sense from a business point of view. But it still saddens me. Of course complaining about it won't do anything. Educating buyers will. I would not buy from someone who misrepresents items deliberately to get a higher price. I hope no one here will either. It's a start, and maybe if the whole world gets educated enough these practices will cease to be practical. All it takes is one unfortunate out there who is taken in, though, and it's a big world. It's sad to see sellers profit on such unfortunates.

[dwolf359]

EDUCATING 250067356711, ROUND 2 Neo, I sent "it" the following: FYI - Your chess set is NOT ivory. This set is a traditional cow bone and wood set from Mexico. Most likely it is of very recent vintage, probably post 1980s. It is a very popular set with tourists. The only thing that really stands out is the green color. Normally these come in burgundy or black. You may want to change your description so as not to mislead your bidders about it being ivory. Ivory was never used by Mexican artisans for making chess sets. Hope this info helps. P.S. For a similar set see the completed auction no. 290060884724. They called theirs South American but in reality it's made in Mexico. Its response was: The set is listed as ivory or bone. My retort: Your TITLE reads otherwise. I seriously doubt "it" will mend its ways. dwolf359