Chess collecting the real truth !?

[chesspurr]

As a CCI member I am fortunate as I have visited a number of homes of collectors and spoken to these people in their private domain. What is often stated here on these threads is a complete contradiction of what I have heard in private discussion. One group member here once sent me an image of a " Sutton Coldfield clock " and asked what it might be worth . My reply was perhaps in hindsight too limited, or blinkered, as I gave an Ebay valuation. Such a valuation is complete nonsense , and when he stated he would not even consider selling the item. Of course he was very correct, and his clock appears to be rarer than I was aware of, and it is a lovely item. Yet perhaps it is possible that in his eyes the Clock is not to his liking and he would be willing to sell it off, to purchase something else. So what I am trying to say is that we all will have collectables with some value, but we are often unsure of just what this is. In many cases it is these items that we might or would be happy to sell on at a profit. However when I spoke to some people in private, they had affections for chessmen that perhaps they might not have felt comfortable making public. To me this is a complete mystery, but of course I am not one of these collectors. A few weeks ago, my youngest daughter sent me an Email offering an opinion on a Ceramic chess set owned by a Dutch collector friend , she had viewed it when looking at my Picasa Album visiting Holland. She described the set as " so cute " , so I passed on the mail to my friend, and he was delighted to hear this. Did I give my daughter a term in the " Tower of London " for not praising any of my sets , not on your life, to even hear a young person say something positive about collecting was........... Music to my Ears ..... A short time after writing a piece for the Chess Collector " My passion for chess collecting " I received a favourable Email or two , but one collector suggested I was harsh on a massed produced 1950's Chad Valley Plastic set, you see he admitted the crime of owning such a set, and actually liking it. He was dead right,and it certainly got me thinking alot more about how we collectors might really view things. Perhaps there are more collectors who might be willing to discuss chessmen if they could break the chains of confinment on what they might believe we want to see. We have in our group one collector who I have nothing but admiration for, he has created a fantastic Album, which is honest and well worth viewing, because it is from the " Heart " chess set collection , by Duncan. The way this Album is developing is wonderful,and offers a nice contrast to the other excellent Picasa sites, and is encouraging us all to offer our more modest fare for all to view. Most of us will happily concede the value of our collections does concern us, and will happily accept good news on any sets we have should the value increase. However it is not in many cases our primary reason for collecting in the first place. This is my opinion of how I view my private contact with some collectors at least.

[d-baron]

At one time I had a Beer Can collection (actually, I think it is still stored in a box somewhere). There are beer can collectors to be found in all walks of life, just as in chess collection- all very passionate about their collections/collecting. At one time- it may have changed by now, as all things do- as a group they abhorred the idea of selling beer cans for a profit- trade maybe, but make money? Never!!! The very idea turned them off. Talk about collecting something of little value but with lots of passion- and fun!!!! That made the collecting- and the collections- priceless. After reading these different views, it looks as if there are many different reasons why people collect chess sets. Everything from making money to sheer love of the piece the person may be holding in their hand. I guess, bottom line, those reasons perhaps can't be faulted any more than the chess sets they chose to collect, even if we personally don't agree. As far as what's collectible or not collectible- it probably all falls back to what drives the antique business in the first place- one person's junk is another person's treasure. -- Edited by d-baron at 05/01/2010 10:14 AM PDT

[d-baron]

btw, Guy, I meant to also add a thank you for your kind words. I'm glad you like what you see. Perhaps I am really just a showoff at "heart". Naw, if I was a showoff, you wouldn't be seeing pictures of most of the sets I have. 😄

[chesspurr]

Hi Duncan, A show off , well ...welcome to the "Pleasuredome " A past tale............. In 1966 when I was a 13 year old kid I was given a chezk chess set. The pieces were made of soft wood, it was felted , yet unweighted, approx 3.25 inch King ,and it had a strong smelling varnish . Clearly even with its glossy board the set was one which some collectors might not desire greatly. Yet I spent many hours playing on my own with the set ,and using my first book " Harry Golombek's " the Game of chess as my tutor . I did like its artistic minimalist look too. One horrible day a dark storm hit the life of the young Lion , and the tragedy involved a .....Dog .... being our pet Labrador called Seal he was also a memory ,and on this unforgettable day ..... Seal ate the knops off two of my White pawns ...Onion shaped , so I howled in the darkness of this tragedy , our household became the scene of a " Wake " . Then a calmness took hold as a fresh set of Chezk origin was offered, and of course " Seal was buried alive " . As I played through my first game with this new set , a message of forgiveness passed though my brain , and I raced into the garden and rescued Seal from certain death , but I do confess to removing his teeth as a safeguard to my new " investment opportunity ". Truth be told Seal grew old , as did my set . Yet not with me as for some reason , perhaps because the pieces were too big for the board, or the Knights were not so likable, or maybe it was the pattern itself , but I never felt the same about that set , and it vanished somehow . Now as I remember this distant yet fresh memory , I know I was destined to be a collector of chessmen, as why would I recall in such detail the set the board and the A-H and 1-8 on the sides of it . On that day that sets value was priceless as a 13 old Boy I knew no better , and perhaps that is why I like collecting so much , that memory although sad is also History, and it has substance , and tells a tale of my past. How many chess collectors out there have similar stories about sets dismissed today in CCI circles ? Just what does the CCI represent if we can only discuss value, or what is collectable to some collectors ? Why should a fake box matter if the set alone is worth more than one paid for both ? Well it certainly matters to me , and perhaps this posting might resurrect memories of why we started collecting , who knows its each collectors choice. At Cambridge I hope to add to my chess collector friendships, but with a position of being true to what I personally believe collecting is all about . I have no wish to be a member of Chess Collectors Investments International , but am honoured to be a CCI member .

[d-baron]

I like your story, Guy. I'm thinking a new thread where we can tell the stories of how we got into chess collecting would be fascinating.

[knight_knight_zzz]

All....... (well, ok, the handful of you who pop into these threads...) After you take some guesses in answering the following questions (should the spirit move you to do so), I will tell you the "truth" regarding questions # 4 and #5 in these collected items. So, without further ado, (despite the poor picture, with not enough detail or close-up...) 1.) Which one(s) of these are "collectable"; that is, which one(s) would you consider as "collectables"? Why? 2.) Which one(s) of these are NOT "collectable"; that is, which one(s) would you consider as NOT "collectables"? Why? 3.) Which one(s) were "mass produced"? What do you mean by "mass produced"? 4.) Which one was a gift, (personally purchased), from my physician to me? 5.) Which one was picked out of a garbage can? By whom? John. PS: If you quote from a dictionary, please include the ENTIRE definition, and not just the one that supports your personal point of view. -- Edited by knight_knight_zzz at 05/04/2010 11:26 AM PDT

[candylab1]

John, (1) I don't know whether you are aware of it, but you have a shelf full of door knobs in the middle of your chess pieces. (2)Anything off the top shelf (no tequila?)could have been rescued from a garbage can.If any of these sets was given to you as a present by your physician I would check with your HMO to see if you have recourse. (3) The Staunton set bottom right is an outstanding piece of chess history. Only someone with taste and perspicacity would purchase this set. In fact I picked one up myself a couple of days ago. Mick (There was supposed to be a smiley face here but it wouldn't load!) -- Edited by candylab1 at 05/04/2010 3:39 PM PDT

[knight_knight_zzz]

Hi, Mick! Here goes the missing yellow pill: 🙂 I am waiting (in fact holding my breath) for some other responders before I tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth! .......................Still holding........... argh! (Help!) Loaded John.

[d-baron]

1. I wouldn't mind having any of them, but then, I'm easy to please. But the bottom right has to be something special to collect, don't know why- it just looks it. 2. Don't know if I would say any of them were "un-collectable", but I would probably have to give that nod to the Regency sets just because you can pick one of those up anytime you want. 3. The "mass produced" ones are the red and white set in the white box- has to be a basic sets from Lowes, sold by the thousands, probably more like by the millions for nearly 40 years. 4. I think the set on the top left was the gift and 5. The set on the top right was the one picked out of the garbage bin. If 4 and 5 are wrong then switch them and it will be right. ]:)

[chesspurr]

I simply must also have a go here . 1. The turned ( lathe polished ?!) Regence pieces are well known and massed produced during the whole 20th century . 2. The " Door nob set was rescued from the "Garbage can " 3. I agree with that other pair , the bottom right set is one I have ( with no restoration visible that is ). 4. The top left set should have been the gift,but I suspect it is the top right one. Summary . For membership of the Chess Collectors Investors International, well none are what one might call " Banker sets " ,however one should make allowances for the photo, and state that there might be a couple that could make some profit from. For CCI members they are all collectable, as over here in Britain we have " fake tanned and celebrity Antiques dealers " spring up everywhere telling us all about value. So therefore it will happen that thousands of such sets will be placed in dustbins and the remaining few will become harder to get. When a collector admits to owning one of these sets because he played as a kid with his "Granny and won " such a crime will be reported to the authorities and the fellow will serve a .... term in " Hades " worse than that of a collector admitting to owning modern 1949 Ivory. In fact both types of collector just might be shot with the same " Elephant gun " that killed the beast for set no 1. club size for the 1849 staunton patteren. Yes John, dont appear at Cambridge, I will offer my self up as a sacrifical Lamb at the event in your place. 😉

[d-baron]

So where's this John fellow with his supposed answers? Must of held his breath too long.

[chesspurr]

Perhaps our "Modern door knob Maestro is researching " as he is after all coming to Cambridge. Here he will offer us lesser mortals his " Expurrtease " on just what is a collectable set . 😉

[knight_knight_zzz]

The tension has been unbelievable. The throngs are dying to know the results of the competition (see posting #6 and accompanying picture, as well as educated guesses...) Drumroll. please... (for the real truth.) A.) Upper left chess set (made in Russia, less than 15 years old, with typical painted theme - strawberries in this instance. Stauntonish s tyle. Now, who doesn't like strawberries? Only trolls...) And this is the set that was the gift from my doctor; he brought it back from Russia the last time he visited. I thought it was very kind and considerate of him to do so; it was even done without my knowledge of what he planned. Now, it would not be the type of set I would buy for myself, (unless I could get it for $5.00 or less). My guess is that it was fairly inexpensive. HOWEVER, "...it was the thought that counts...". I don't think I would ever sell a set that was a gift to me (though others are free to do as they wish, since gifts should not come with strings attached, right?) B.) The "doorknob" 🙂 set was an inadvertent "gift" from my mother (rest her soul). And it was the one that came from a garbage can or a dumpster. Yes, I guess you could say she was a "picker". And I really do appreciate that she was thinking of me - even if was occurring when she was looking in the garbage for some real "finds" in that better-than-average neighborhood, where one could occasionally even come up with surprisingly high end items! That chess set was undoubtedly(?) and seemingly hand-carved (main pieces are hidden in the back row - sorry, Guy!) and turned... probably by one of the co-op apartment owners in this once "Veterans Only" (WWII) housing development. It's a "keeper" for sure! But if the price of heating oil skyrockets and firewood gets scarce, well.... C.) As for the issues surrounding "collectability" and "mass produced", I hope you can wait a little longer. I am on my umpteenth draft/revision. I am trying to be as careful and tactful in my wording. (Yeah, right?) I do not want to offend anyone more than I already have, when discussing the first term. D.) So, the clear-cut winner of that unannounced competition is apparently the big Crazy Puzzy Cat (and my friend who is timid in voicing his opinion on things.) The Plastic Baron Guy is runner up! (Good guessing!) And coming up the rear, sortaspeak, (but acknowledgingly the very first to respond, which is also appreciated!) is Mack the Knife....... er........ Mick the Nice. Just teasing, Mick, just teasing... Happy face wink! John, VT.

[knight_knight_zzz]

PS: Oh... Mick... Do you think I can sue my doctor? (I'll split the proceeds with you!) Maybe I could trade that strawberry set (see previous posting... especially the last paragraph... 😉 ) in (upgrade) for an old person flu shot? Do you like strawberries? Wink. John.

[d-baron]

Dang, the door knobs came from the garbage bin?- I should have known- but it just seemed way too obvious to be true. The great cat maistro has clawed- er, struck- again! I bow in homage. ]:)