eBAY auction business model in question, unpaid bidders continue to get away on seller's expense

[forgottentime]

I have been on eBAY for years, actually since it was a discussion board and been selling by auctions and they're great for many years, I noticed that I have to force myself into fixed price items for the past several months because of unpaid bidders. When we're conducting business through auctions, we have good and bad days, good when the items were bid up so we made profits, and bad days were when we're making even or take a loss. I noticed that most of my good days are basically ... GONE because the bidders won't pay after winning the auctions if He doubt that he might pay a bit more for the item but they always paid and rush the shipping whenever they get the item for cheap from auctions. This is basically bad news for the sellers with auctions because they live for good auction days, I even had guys who are veteran eBAYers ran away from payments because eBAY let them get off easy. The result is now most of my items are fixed price  because I can't make money through auctions because there's no more good days for auctioneers, and I am selling a lot less on eBAY. eBAY should have a mechanism to withhold buyers deposit when buyers made a bid just like they can withold seller's fund when there's a complaint from buyers. I always thought eBAY is expert in auctions business but now I start to think they probably not knowing the true meaning of auctions and kind of mixed both auction and fixed price models and treating them almost the same way. For the past months, one every five auction items that were considered good day for my auctions, the buyers disappeared, all eBAY can do is ... let me give you the refund on final value fee.

Well, let's summarize it, eBAY is known for Auctions and are very successful but more and more now sellers are shifting to fixed price items because they don't want to take the risk since they rely on 'good auction days' for the business but eBAY let the buyers abused 'good days' by walking away from their bids so auction sellers are basically holding the 'bad auction days' bag. But if we shift to fixed price model then eBAY is no difference than Amazon or any other online sites. I hope eBAY will do something about this problem or my prediction is sellers with fixed price won't value eBAY as much anymore and will eventually start looking to do business somewhere else whenever there's cheaper fixed price commissions offered.

[femmefan1946]

I stopped doing auctions almost completely several years ago. I'm not sure if I ever did auctions on this ID, actually, because my books are slow sellers, better suited to long listings.

However, that is my decision and not your reason for switiching.

 When we're conducting business through auctions, we have good and bad days, good when the items were bid up so we made profits, and bad days were when we're making even or take a loss.

Many sellers switched to FP so that they never take a loss. Lower fees, especially with a Store, and longer listing periods are also factors

 eBAY should have a mechanism to withhold buyers deposit when buyers made a bid just like they can withold seller's fund when there's a complaint from buyers.

Buyers don't have to make a deposit in order to bid on eBay. I can't imagine requiring a deposit as anything but a huge turnoff for customers.

I've worked trade shows (I've been in retail since 1978) and we make better show sales when admission is free. (Not a perfect parallel, of course.)

, all eBAY can do is ... let me give you the refund on final value fee.

Although eBay is retunding your FVF when you report an Unpaid Bidder, you don't seem to realize the other half of their actions.

Your deadbeat also gets an Unpaid Item Strike.

With two of those he will find it difficult to bid on many, if not most, listings, because sellers, auction or FP, can set their Preferences to automatically Block any bidder with UID Strikes.

This is particularly useful for Fixed Price sellers who do not have the ability to winnow their bidders before they purchase.

If eBay decides a member has "too many" UID Strikes, he can become NARU. (EBay sensibly does not give members a heads up on their standard for this.)

Go to your Seller Preferences and check this option out.

Well, let's summarize it, eBAY is known for Auctions and are very successful but more and more now sellers are shifting to fixed price items because they don't want to take the risk

Well, no. Most sellers in my opinion, switched because we get more sales at a lower cost with Fixed Price.

The customer of 2014 wants immediate satisfaction. Waiting seven days for an auction to end is too long. Also during that wait, the bidder may browse other listings and find a better deal, a reason for not paying you overlook.

You didn' ask , but because I am a busybody:

I looked at your current listings (all auctions), and I notice that you are using Priority Mail for international sales.

Now,have you considered using either First Class International shipping or, and  as a Canadian, I feel like a traitor to my countrymen saying this, the new Global Shipping Program.

The reason I suggest this is that $25 shipping is higher than FCI would charge, and FCI now allows Delivery Confirmation, at least to Canada,

However, you may find the GPS more useful. First because as long as you track your shipment to the Kentucky address of the Program, your international buyers cannot come back at you for non-delivery.

More important, your customers are told on the listing, how much duty and tax they will be paying. And they pay that before you ship. No sticker shock.

The GSP is not for everyone, but your watches are well over the $50 minimum value that eBay suggests for use of the program.

[forgottentime]

Thanks for your comments. I noticed that we're in different business, I am in antiques and collectibles and the price for a piece of antique is how much the buyer want to bid, and we have both good and bad days. if I am in book business then of course fixed price is probably the way to go as my day is always the same, you won't have people pay high nor low on your items. In my business, we make $ when item is sold high and we took the loss when it's sold low. They're entirely 2 different business models. If you go to an aution house and won an auction, do you think you can walk away whithout paying for what you bidded ?, with today technology, don't you think eBAY should come up with a better way to comply with eBAY rules ?. It seems that eBAY is treating both business models the same and the true 'auction' spirit that started eBAY has lost the principle over time, some may say just relist the item, what's the problem ?. Yes, sir, there's a big problem, whenever you relist an aution, it usually endded at lower price because we lost the 'aution fire' and the buyers also think there maybe something wrong with the itemm, or it was returned by previous bidder, do you know if the 'second chance offer' ever works ? none for me so far, it's the 'ego' that determine the value of antiques and collectibles. Let me give you the most recent last 3 weeks examples, one item sold for $290 and the bidder walked, relist ended with $192. Another item auction sold for $590, the bidder walked, relist endded at $405. If you do the math, the loss percentage is huge (I do have another eBAY ID with thousands of feedback).

I understand the 'strikes' thing that eBAY trying to implement but I thinnk it's just a slap on their hands on the expense of the sellers. What if eBAY charge their Visa or Paypal %20 of the item value everytime they want to walk away so the seller can recoup their effort ? is it a bidding contract when they placed the bid ?  this term is playing over and over but no effective enforcement that I've seen because we're still having unpaid bidders walking away often. I would not suggesting buyers' penalty on fixed price items but for the auction world, something that eBAY needs to think about a bit more. Look at Christie, Antiquorium, etc ... see how they run their auctions. In summry, eBAY has proven a great market place but I am afraid that it's heading to fixed price model and eventually 'auctions' lost its meaning which is sad as it is what has started eBAY and made it a very unique experiences compare to other fixed price stores.

[femmefan1946]

. I noticed that we're in different business, I am in antiques and collectibles and the price for a piece of antique is how much the buyer want to bid, and we have both good and bad days.

 if I am in book business then of course fixed price is probably the way to go as my day is always the same, you won't have people pay high nor low on your items.

Not really. My books are mostly vintage science fiction paperbacks with some gay erotica and Canadian history. They can be hard to find, but occasionally I have something sell almost on listing

 One modern reprint of “The White Roots of Peace” which deals with pre-Columbian treaties from the points of view of the First Nations involved, sold in 20 minutes. Either I underpriced it, or the buyer was foolish, since it is still available.

I'm On Vacation at the moment, but that will change later in the week, if you want to see my items.

 In my business, we make $ when item is sold high and we took the loss when it's sold low.

Do you not start your auctions at a price you would be content with? Certainly the day of the 99 c starting bid are long past, but we still can choose to start our items at a price that at least covers our costs.

 They're entirely 2 different business models. If you go to an aution house and won an auction, do you think you can walk away whithout paying for what you bidded ?,

Actually we have an auction house. Our next auction , in April, has about 1900 lots and estimates of around $750, 000 CDN. DH took the copy to the printer yesterday.

We mail out catalogues, post the catalogue , with more pictures, to our website, and are fortunate to be able to have viewings for about four days on our own premises. We have floor, mail, telephone and live internet bidding.

We’ve been doing this under our current name for about a decade, but have run similar auctions since around 1985.

And we do have bidders who never pay and bidders who pay late.

We even, because philately is a handshake community, have bidders who collect their lots immediately and take their time about paying.

We buy at Christie's, and also act as agents for our clients there and with other houses (Seigel, Regency, Eastern). If you watch their sales and prices realized you can see how many lots are Unsold, Sold to the House (sneaky), and more to the point, not paid and relisted a few months later.

 Yes, sir, there's a big problem, whenever you relist an aution, it usually endded at lower price because we lost the 'aution fire' and the buyers also think there maybe something wrong with the itemm, or it was returned by previous bidder, do you know if the 'second chance offer' ever works ?

 Let me give you the most recent last 3 weeks examples, one item sold for $290 and the bidder walked, relist ended with $192. Another item auction sold for $590, the bidder walked, relist endded at $405. If you do the math, the loss percentage is huge (I do have another eBAY ID with thousands of feedback).

But was there really a loss? There was a failed transaction. But you additional costs from that transaction were only the listing fees and the time needed to Dispute and relist.

FWIW, I use the Ontario minimum wage to reckon my time. That’s 17 cents a minute.

Our Unsold lots in our own auction may go back to the consignor or may be offered in our next or next but one auction. Sometimes the description or pictures are tweaked. Not always. They usually sell, sometimes for more, sometimes for less.

I understand the 'strikes' thing that eBAY trying to implement but I thinnk it's just a slap on their hands on the expense of the sellers.

A slap that can get the buyer kicked off eBay. And before that, prevents him from bidding with thousands of sellers who have the automatic Block in place.

 What if eBAY charge their Visa or Paypal %20 of the item value everytime they want to walk away so the seller can recoup their effort ?

Not everyone has a credit card posted with Paypal. I spend a lot of time telling scammed buyers that they should be paying from their cards, especially if they are dealing wish Asian sellers or in high fraud categories. Amazing how many don’t.

More to the point. This would be like demanding that anyone who walks into a store pay a fee, even if they don't buy anything. After all, the shopkeeper has rent, utilities, business taxes, wages, payroll taxes, and publicity costs to cover.

How often would you go shopping if you knew that it would cost you money just to look?

OTOH, we moved from a location with pay parking to a location with free parking around 1990. Three years later, we moved back to the original location.

While part of the reason was more foot traffic, we discovered that free parking did not encourage buyers while pay parking did not discourage big spenders.

But our bread and butter is the small spender. The collector with a monthly allowance of $100 to $250.

The big spenders (five figures) are jam.

OT- One of our customers was the Swiss ambassador. When parking was scarce, he just had his chauffeur drive around and around the block until he was ready to leave. Must be nice to have servants.

 is it a bidding contract when they placed the bid ?

Not really. Or it is a very weak one. Just as we see abandoned shopping carts in department stores and supermarkets, the transaction is only complete when money changes hands.

[renoskigirl]

What ? The buyer is doing bad? No-- you are confused... it is only us sellers that are evil. We complain about computer programs not working and horrible overseas call centers (which of course makes us all a racist because we don't want the wrong answer to a question someone can't understand?) -- yes... evil racists and buyers who don't pay -- like the song says "kings of all the world". If I was on the board of directors I would look long and hard at this forum. What do I know... I am part of the evil crowd who thinks bad customer service deserves notice.

[mrobind42]

I disagree. With everything you said. In another topic I have asked for advice from the seasoned sellers. I'm hoping to get good advice. Here is what you are not considering.

A. I run auctions when I get tired of looking at items or when I am selling Michael Kors. Why? Because Michael Kors does not do well with buy it now for me. In EVERY auction I run, I end up with at a minimum of 3 unpaid buyer cases being opened and at least 1-2 buyers who do not pay at all. Sure, they get an unpaid strike, but do you know what they do then? They open a new account. 

B. When a bidder comes in at the last second with an overly high winning bid, you almost already know they are not going to pay, and when you relist (only 20 - 30% of second chance offers are taken) it does sell for less. Way less than the second top bidder, who would have paid.

C. I have started listing auctions at a price that will give me at least 10% more than I paid for it; however, buyers tend to stay away from those. They LIKE the lower cost starting point.

D. If 2014's buyer wants immediate gratification, I can ship it to them (within the US) in 2 days or less...please, feel free to check my feedback on my shipping speed...then why are they not buying at the bin price? Because they want to pay less. 

E. Finally, because the buyer wants something for nothing they bid on auctions. If they cannot control themselves and not bid more than they want to pay that is their fault. Ebay rule states that if you bid and win you are expected to pay. It's time for them to enforce their own rule