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worth the money grading for jordan rookie and fro joy ruth??

I'm not a super collector nor do I pay to authenticate cards. how much would it cost to get a good looking jordan rookie and a couple Ruth Fro Joy cards checked? the jordan especially looks slight chance legit. is it worth money to find out they are fake?

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Re: worth the money grading for jordan rookie and fro joy ruth??

Here's what I've found with a simple web search...

 

Jordan fakes 101:

When looking at the front of the card, the first thing to pay attention to is the overall clarity. The clarity of the image, the text, and the colors. Sometimes, that is all it takes to immediately expose a fake. Just because this card is nearing 30 years old, does not mean that the photo should showcase a slight haze. The text box at the bottom should feature cleanly printed text with a clear transition from the white text to the blue background, even under magnification. Also under magnification, the thin black line that parallels the yellow boarder should be solid and not pixelated at all. Another thing to note, the red, white and blue background colors should not overlap at all. Less telling, but still useful, the "Chicago" text on Jordan's jersey should be crisp and every letter should be legible. Make particular note to inspect the "i" and the "o."

The crown in the Fleer logo is another place to spend some time. Notice how much sharper the points are on the magnified authentic version, below on the left. The "FLEER" text also has a more balloon-ish quality on the fake on the right, and "PREMIER" isn't crisp.

Color

Real Fleer Logo ImageFake Fleer Logo Image

The red, white and blue border on the real rookie card feature distinct colors. Convincing fakes will be normally be a tad brighter or darker, and poor fakes will exhibit colors that are much different. Another color element to look for is the arrow in the Fleer logo crown. The real version features a darker yellow/gold and is clearly a different color than the yellow text box. Most fakes will include the same color yellow in both the arrow and text box. It's easy to trick yourself into thinking the colors are slightly different, but the color difference is abundantly clear in an authentic version.

Real

 

1986 87 Fleer Michael Jordan RC Real Back image 210x300 Image

Fake

 

1986 87 Fleer Michael Jordan RC Fake back 1 212x300 Image

 

 

The issues on the back are a little more subtle since there are fewer colors and images, and the design is plain. However, there are still several key areas to check out in regards to clarity and color.

Clarity

Real Bulls Logo ImageFake Bulls Logo Image

The first thing to check on the back of the card is the Chicago Bulls logo. With the real Bulls logo on the left, you are able to see the white around the eye, under magnification. On the fake, the ink around the eye bleeds together.

There are several other things that can signify a fake card. One is the the clarity of decimals in the stats, specifically the one in "27.2" average points. The decimal will be clear to the naked eye on the real version and nearly nonexistent on the fake. Also, the decimals listed in field goal percentage are generally very faint on the fakes. Next, the © symbol on the bottom left, in front of "1986 FLEER CORP," should be clearly legible. Likewise, the ® symbol in the top right near the Fleer logo should be easily read.

Lastly, the NBA Player logo in the bottom right should show a clear "NBA PLAYERS" in the middle of the ball, and "NATIONAL BASKETBALL PLAYERS ASSOCIATION," around the ball. Also, the logo itself is a basketball. With the real Michael Jordan rookie card, you should be able to see the faint lines that are indicative of a basketball. The fake version will normally have just a filled circle.

Color

Again, color plays an important role on the back of the card, but since the color can vary from fake to fake, and it's mostly just various shades of pink and red, it is not something you can specifically point to as a rule. However, the back of the Michael Jordan rookie card that directly applies to color is the pink and red color blocks that take up the majority of the back. The real version appears more textured, while the fake looks more like a fully filled-in color.

Also, the white background has more of an off-white appearance on the real version, while many of the fakes exhibit more of a bright white color.

Another Option

Outside of these key areas, many people will suggest that you compare the card in question to a Michael Jordan rookie card that you know is authentic. And this is good advice. But most collectors don't have Michael Jordan rookies lying around, let alone in their pocket, for comparison. It does help to know the feel of a particular card. I'm not suggesting you pry open the slab and play with a Michael Jordan rookie card, but is good to know exactly what you are dealing with. A good alternative to this is to buy a card of a no-name player from the 1986-87 Fleer Basketball set. Michael Jordan is really the only card with high counterfeit levels, and a common card can be had for a few dollars, depending on condition. This way, you know the stock, the weight, the gloss, the overall feel of the card. You will also have a good reference point for design comparison.

Message 16 of 34
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Re: worth the money grading for jordan rookie and fro joy ruth??

Rob--

 

Your 27.2 rule flies in the face of what Jim's findings state. Almost all the things I looked for are in Jim's post, that's why I think it's authentic.

 

The white is in the bull's eyes, the logos are clear, trademarks are well defined, decimal points are firm, etc.

 

I don't think your 27.2 rule is anywhere near enough to go by alone.


If you are not supposed to stick Q-Tips in your ears, then what in the hell are they for? Ole' Don swears by 'em!
Message 17 of 34
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Re: worth the money grading for jordan rookie and fro joy ruth??

Fred....my sureshot is not the "only" suspect....the obvious one that is not part of the infamous google search....but from experience handling over 50 real & fake Jordans in my day.

Lets take the one from google.....the fleer banner on the front of the card doesn not match the color variant of the 2 color banner....it should stick out like a sore thumb. A front scan like the OP did of the back is much needed.

 

Let me be clear...I am by no means an expert on this subject...but...I have held in hand numerous Jordans...and have personally sent in over 10 to BGS at one time...all of which sold at shows. The most destinctive ones that were rejected...were due to the 27.2 OC right. There are so many good fakes...but I have never seen one where the 27.2 is properly alligned.

 

Take a quick skim through the ones here....the 27.2 darkness or boldness has nothing to do with it....take a glance at where the 27.2 is located. I have not (yet) seen a real one OC to the right of the card.




Message 18 of 34
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Re: worth the money grading for jordan rookie and fro joy ruth??

I can tell you guys from a FB standpoint that I've had a lot of experience with fake Marino's. When looking for the commonly listed discrepancies between fakes and real, you may be looking for one, two, four or eight items that are tell-tale. Not every fake has every issue listed. Some have many... some have 1 or 2. A really good fake is always going to be tough to root out. The scan just doesn't give enough solid detail (we're looking at a picture of a picture of a picture here) IMHO to pick out any glaring items with any certainly here.

I'd really like to see a big scan of the front fleer logo and really inspect that arrow color.

 

Also, and you basketball guys can pipe in on this since I never bought any, but that bleeding of the colors from the front to the back boarders really sticks out to me. Was that a common thing in this set? If not, I'd almost have to believe that that alone is a HUGE red flag, whether it's listed in this article or not, and even if everything else checks out. Secondly, the back of the scan provided does look very white to me. That was another key in that article, about the back on a real one being more of an off-white, and not bright white.

 

As a novice, and definitely not a certified pro, if I were asked, I would say that despite everything else, those two factors alone would make me strongly lean towards fake.  

Message 19 of 34
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Re: worth the money grading for jordan rookie and fro joy ruth??

I don't like the color bleeding onto the back of the card. If its a sheet cut card this shouldn't happen. I think this Jordan is fake (I'm no expert by any means).

Message 20 of 34
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Re: worth the money grading for jordan rookie and fro joy ruth??

bige333 - the Fro Joys are likely 1970s TCMA reprints. Can't really tell from a scan but this discussion should help: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=136326 

 

Re the Jordan one thing adding to the potential that it's authentic is the blue ink on the edges of the card back - a not uncommon stain from the wrapper..... 'course that also would lower the grade if it is authentic  🙂

Message 21 of 34
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Re: worth the money grading for jordan rookie and fro joy ruth??

Bud...   I don't know what the color/layout of the wrappers were, but if you look at the colors that are "bled" to the back boarders of the OP's scan, they match-up perfectly to the front color scheme, both blue and red. Almost like "over-spray" from a spray paint can. I'm inclined to think that the last poster previous to us hit it on the head... if this card was printed on a sheet then cut, you wouldn't see that. It's almost like the card was printed after it was already cut to size, back first, then the front where the over-spray/bleeding happened.

I as always defer to anybody's opinion who is more knowledgeable than I (and they're not hard to find), but barring a trusted tried and true expects opinion stating otherwise, I'd personally stay away from that card.

Thankfully, as the OP said, he didn't pay a lot for the lot of cards he found that in.

Message 22 of 34
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Re: worth the money grading for jordan rookie and fro joy ruth??

Guys, thanks for all the insight. It came in a lot that was virtually only a few bucks. The owner previously said they thought it could be fake.  I've had a few years so decided to post. I knew the other stuff was probably fake. Just was weighing out to prove by grading to be verify. How much will it cost me to grade to verify fake or not. This is not something I'm familiar with. Thanks everyone. Real interesting all the perceptions.

Message 23 of 34
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Re: worth the money grading for jordan rookie and fro joy ruth??

If the owner says he thinks it may be fake then most likley it is.  If real why would he not grade it and get more than a few bucks for it?

Message 24 of 34
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Re: worth the money grading for jordan rookie and fro joy ruth??

She was a woman who had them. I don't think she had interest in investing anything.

Message 25 of 34
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Re: worth the money grading for jordan rookie and fro joy ruth??

thebige33 - think $10-15 each card, plus shipping both ways, if you're only having a few card authenticated, with or without grading. These are the 3 generally accepted professional authenticators:

 

http://psacard.com 

 

http://sgccard.com 

 

http://beckett.com

Message 26 of 34
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Re: worth the money grading for jordan rookie and fro joy ruth??

Seems like the question whether the Jordan is real or not could be a toughie!

 

It's very tough to tell from the picture and there have been some evidence pointing it to be a fake.  This is what I see and when comparing it to other graded Jordan rookies, the name plate on the front of the OP's card seems to have box-type lettering, whereas the graded examples scattered all over eBay, display more consistent, close rounded lettering.  This very well could be an indication that the OP's Jordan is a fake.  What does everyone else think?

 

real jordan.png

Message 27 of 34
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Re: worth the money grading for jordan rookie and fro joy ruth??

wonder what pertange of graded rookie jordan cards are fake.

Message 28 of 34
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Re: worth the money grading for jordan rookie and fro joy ruth??

One would think (hope) not many. Sure there might be some 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th tier grading companies out there that have let some slip through (that's why they're 2nd, 3rd, and 4th tier), but you would think at least the big 3 would be beyond missing a fake. Jordan fakes have been a known issue in this hobby since their beginning.I remember having these same discussions back in the late 80's and early '90's They're not just something that's popped up lately. The whole point a grading/authentication company is just that... root out fakes and altered stuff, and then rate the condition of the real ones. They wouldn't be worth the letter-head their company logo is printed on if they couldn't do that 99.8% of the time.

 

But since we're talking authenticity issues here... here's one for you.... back in I think it was '91, I attended a show and signing event up near Bufalo NY. Emmitt Smith was one of the signers. I got 4 sigs from him, in person. 1 on an 8x10, and 3 on cards I had brought with me.

Several years after that, they had a big show in Pittsburgh at the Expomart where they had grading companies and authenticators coming in as part of the program. Now this was right at the beginning when grading was really just in it's infancy, call it the toddler years, so they were doing all they could to still sell the idea and these companies (PSA primarily), including free services to dealers/collectors at these shows.

I took my auto'd cards in (not the glossy though, as that's framed and displayed) for authentication and certification because we all know how tough passing a signature is without that. I was told by 3 "certified authenticators" that what I had were fakes (one guy even told me they were'nt even good fakes) and I should go back to the guy I bought them from and get my money back (I had told none of them that I got these in person prior to their examination). When I did explain that I KNEW they were not fake and why, they just sort of looked at me like I had 3 heads, and one even got so mad, he "threw me off his table".

I just can't bring myself to trust anybody's opinion but my own after that.

I still cringe everytime I see that signature/writing expert come in at "Pawn Stars" to look at autographs for Rick Harrison...

 

Message 29 of 34
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Re: worth the money grading for jordan rookie and fro joy ruth??

Don't forget the basketball at the bottom . The fakes are solid and ther real ones show the lines like a Basketball would have.

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