eBay

retrorediscoveries · ‎08-06-2017

I am a victim of theft.

Buyer claims some items were broken; 48 HOURS after receiving them. Neither I nor eBay really knows what happened to said items in that time. How do we know the buyer isn't lying? They provided vague "evidence" of damage, yet I know for a fact they purposely left out half of the bubblewrap I had used from their images. It was a very well packed box, as all my listings are.

The Post Office will of course NEVER take responsibility for their actions, since the item wasn't insured. They don't care, a cop-out response to cover their backsides.

I usually don't offer returns, but the buyer weaseled a refund and gets to keep what is left of the undamaged items? This is despicable behaviour on both the buyer and eBay's parts, and I consider it tantamount to fraud.

Now my reputation on eBay is tarnished, because of a liar and a policy that forces me to suffer the faults of a third party. The Post Office is not my employee, I can't control how they act. If a package is lost or destroyed under their watch, why must I take the responsilibity and blame?

I did absolutely nothing wrong, and yet I completely lose out.

These actions need to change.

lja440 · ‎08-06-2017

Actually, this was a lot of 4 rather large mugs. At 10"x7"x5" the RR'A' box would not be large enough for even one with enough padding to provide safe transport.

berserkerplanet · ‎08-06-2017

Buyer A claims explanation Y is true.
Seller B claims explanation Z is true.
Neither can be confirmed or denied, so why is eBay allowed to choose one over the other?

You seem to have some seriously wrong ideas about how eBay, PayPal, Amazon, and mailorder in general work, and how credit card processors operate.

You are responsible for getting the package to the buyer intact. Period.

Whether you hand carry it, charter a jet with hand picked couriers, or subcontract with USPS, FedEx, UPS, or other carriers.

You were/are responsible for USPS's handling of the package. If you packed it well as you say you may not be at fault, but you are still responsible. Even if they run over it twelve times with a forklift you are still responsible. That is what insurance is for and that is simply how things work no matter what you happen to think.

Now to your question quoted above.

eBay goes with the buyer because of misdirected policy* trying to retain buyers with as little expenditure and effort as possible and because credit card companies. If the buyer claims the item arrived broken, VISA, Matercard, and all the others aren't going to pay any attention to your claims of infallible packing any more than eBay does. They are going to hold you responsible and give the buyer back his money.

* I don't agree with eBay's or Paypal's approaches over the last few years, and it's starting to look like eBay is finally beginning to realize it was a failure. Changes are supposedly in the works to personalize the eBay dispute process a bit more, and have actual humans look at cases and use some judgement.

However, nothing you have stated so far indicates that even the new processes would help your argument . It all comes down again to "you are 100% responsible for getting the pkg to the buyer intact", and nothing you have said so far would be grounds for eBay, PayPal, VISA, MC, Amex, me, or Judge Judy to decide that the buyer is lying about damage.

>> 48 hours after receipt

My packages sit out on the porch for days sometimes before I get home and gather them up. And not everyone rips open their packages the minute the postman drops them off to inspect the contents, not are they required to by either eBay rules or general ethics.

dakotasmoke · ‎08-06-2017

@retrorediscoveries wrote:
No I would not.

I know exactly how I packed those items. I know exactly how they would move inside the box. Either the PO broke them or the buyer did.

A full, forced refund was unwarranted.

If I'm "Very Nasty" because in business I deal with facts instead of emotion, then so be it.

YOU are responsible for the item from the time you pack it till it arrives SAFELY in the buyers hands. Obviously your packing wasn't sufficient.

When you refused the return, you ALLOWED eBay to step in and force a full refund.

You response is unprofessional, rude, and filled with pettiness and emotion.

This is 100% on you.

pingpong517 · ‎08-06-2017

@retrorediscoveries wrote:
I am a victim of theft.

Buyer claims some items were broken; 48 HOURS after receiving them. Neither I nor eBay really knows what happened to said items in that time. How do we know the buyer isn't lying?

How do you or ebay or usps know that the buyer isn't correct? seems you simple believe it, and expect it to be true... any proof?

They provided vague "evidence" of damage, yet I know for a fact they purposely left out half of the bubblewrap I had used from their images. It was a very well packed box, as all my listings are.

they provided some evidence? well that is all they have? and even if they showed all the bubble wrap you used and even all there was in the world...THAT still doesn't mean it WASN'T damaged.

The Post Office will of course NEVER take responsibility for their actions, since the item wasn't insured. They don't care, a cop-out response to cover their backsides.

The post office doesn't have to admit to anything...10 because you packed it and they simple move the package...you packed it!. AND if you didn't insure it...well why must thy care..do you have too?-- but insurance if you want something from them.

I usually don't offer returns, but the buyer weaseled a refund and gets to keep what is left of the undamaged items? This is despicable behaviour on both the buyer and eBay's parts, and I consider it tantamount to fraud.

Weaseled a refund?.. nice talk.. how do they do that?... you can say no, you can fight a case, YOU can, but didn't....

Now my reputation on eBay is tarnished, because of a liar and a policy that forces me to suffer the faults of a third party. The Post Office is not my employee, I can't control how they act. If a package is lost or destroyed under their watch, why must I take the responsilibity and blame?

Your reputation? i doubt that..and really its ebay..you think anyone is going to point and whisper things...your reputation might have been saved by standing up and doing an issue with professional behavor....

I did absolutely nothing wrong, and yet I completely lose out.

well you packed it, and it got damaged, since you can't actually prove it didn't. So yes it fall on you....that is life and that's the simple truth of it all.

These actions need to change.

things here don't always go your way and sometimes you can prove it, but mostly you can't... YOu have to change how you do it..buy insurance if needed, use priorty shipping--$100 insuance come with it, pack well.. and even more so... don't blame everyone, and learn what can and can't bedone....

pingpong517 · ‎08-06-2017

@retrorediscoveries wrote:
And that's cute, the time to edit expires so quickly, I'm now not allowed to correct spelling mistakes. Thanks a lot.

and i suppose you want that change also because it wasn't fair to YOU.

retrorediscoveries · ‎08-06-2017

Never criticize policy, no matter how wrong it is. Lesson learned.

johnrj1226 · ‎08-06-2017

@lja440 wrote:
Actually, this was a lot of 4 rather large mugs. At 10"x7"x5" the RR'A' box would not be large enough for even one with enough padding to provide safe transport.

Wouldn't consider a 4" high x 4.5" wide mug to be large or rather large but more or less standard. BTW the 4.5" wide dimension seems to include the handle extension from the basic mug as from the picture the mug is significantly higher than wide. Seems that 4 could fit inside the RRA box - in fact we have 4 coffe mugs that measure 4" high x 4.5" (including the handle and they do fit in side with room for packing materials (in between & top & bottom) - just did it

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bless*the*beasts*and*the*children · ‎08-06-2017

OMG!!!! Why are all of you people raking this person over the coals so much? When I started with eBay 20 years ago, nothing was as automated as it is now. Sent invoices & messages ourselves & would offer buyers insurance if they wanted it. When they didn't, if a package was damaged, no matter how well it was packed, sellers were not crucified. We could even state in our listings that once the package was out of our hands, we were not responsible for damage incurred by the shipping service. I can understand why eBay has made changes to this over the years. but being completly responsible for things that are out of our control is ridiculous. I know a postal person has also responded to this thread....are you honestly going to tell me that nothing is ever dropped, dented or damaged in the rush of our modern "gotta have it now" delivery services? I'm sure you've heard the nicknames that all of the services have, not just USPS. Goodness, I think most of you need to get off the high road and cut this seller some slack....Jeeezzzzz!

Also, I can't believe I have to explain this....a fraudulent buyer is someone who wants a return and sends back an item that is either damaged or used when the seller sent a new item.

a*river*runs*through*it · ‎08-06-2017

When I started with eBay 20 years ago, nothing was as automated as it is now. Sent invoices & messages ourselves & would offer buyers insurance if they wanted it. When they didn't, if a package was damaged, no matter how well it was packed, sellers were not crucified. We could even state in our listings that once the package was out of our hands, we were not responsible for damage incurred by the shipping service.

That was then, this is now. We can no longer believe we are living in a land of rainbows & unicorns.

Sorry but the OP messed up. They should have said "Return for refund."

southern*sweet*tea · ‎08-06-2017

@overtherainbowbridge15 wrote:
OMG!!!! Why are all of you people raking this person over the coals so much? When I started with eBay 20 years ago, nothing was as automated as it is now. Sent invoices & messages ourselves & would offer buyers insurance if they wanted it. When they didn't, if a package was damaged, no matter how well it was packed, sellers were not crucified. We could even state in our listings that once the package was out of our hands, we were not responsible for damage incurred by the shipping service. I can understand why eBay has made changes to this over the years. but being completly responsible for things that are out of our control is ridiculous. I know a postal person has also responded to this thread....are you honestly going to tell me that nothing is ever dropped, dented or damaged in the rush of our modern "gotta have it now" delivery services? I'm sure you've heard the nicknames that all of the services have, not just USPS. Goodness, I think most of you need to get off the high road and cut this seller some slack....Jeeezzzzz!
Also, I can't believe I have to explain this....a fraudulent buyer is someone who wants a return and sends back an item that is either damaged or used when the seller sent a new item.

Twenty years ago buyers had NO protection. Sure, they could file a dispute, but had to pay a $25 fee and had no guarantees. Bad sellers - and there were A LOT of them - would literally send garbage. Buyers had no way of getting their money back. When they deservedly negged the seller, they would get a nasty neg in return. Buyers left the site in droves. Ebay's reputation has never recovered from that. I know people to this day who will not even look at the site because of that reputation. They don't even care about the MBG...they don't trust Ebay. I don't blame them. (Ebay's rep is trash today because of cheap Chinese junk, but that's another rant for another day ::sigh:: )

Today the buyer has protection, and as a seller I AM GLAD they do. Sellers need to understand that this is BUSINESS in 2017 and not a fun online yardsale in 1999. As a seller YOU need to protect yourself. No online venue will protect you. This includes breakage in transit AND fraud. It happens because there are liars in this world and when you sell online there is no way to avoid them.

All sellers need to CYA and self insure, or accept that you can and will at some point lose the money and the item in a bad transaction. This applies if you are a giant megaseller or a twice a year closet cleaner.

Online retail favors the buyer, otherwise there would be no buyers. You can sell the best stuff in the world, if you run off buyers it's all moot.

The easier you are to offend the easier you are to control.

We seem to be getting closer and closer to a situation where nobody is responsible for what they did but we are all responsible for what somebody else did. - Thomas Sowell

bless*the*beasts*and*the*children · ‎08-06-2017

Great; of course I would get a snarky response. I DO NOT live in said land. Unfortunately I live in a land where most people think they're victims and now eBay gives in to them.

bless*the*beasts*and*the*children · ‎08-06-2017

I treated this as a business back then as I still do now. Yes, I do CYA.....everything goes out insured.

the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth · ‎08-06-2017

You gave a horrendous follow up AND left a violating feedback on your buyer's profile. Why should we be sympathetic? You appear to be one of the retaliating sellers who Ebay changed the policy for. BTW it changed in 2008.

The original complaint could have been followed up with something to make future buyers comfortable. Instead you chose to use it to defend yourself and show your ignorance of the rules. Any good buyer who reads the feedback you left couldn't hit the back button quickly enough.

Stop pointing fingers and read and understand the rules.

southern*sweet*tea · ‎08-06-2017

@overtherainbowbridge15 wrote:
I treated this as a business back then as I still do now. Yes, I do CYA.....everything goes out insured.

But do you SELF insure? Postal insurance isn't going to do a thing for buyer fraud.

Every single sale I make I set aside a portion in a separate fund, where it sits. It's there strictly for the purpose of covering my behind in case of loss of any kind, including buyer fraud. Should something happen, I am out nothing, since previous buyers have paid for the loss. It's added into my item cost, just like businesses do and it's called insurance.

I recognize the fact that not everyone, buyers OR sellers, is honest. I recognize the fact that Ebay has no way of knowing who sent what, who received what, who is telling the truth and who is lying. All they can do is try to negate the transaction by refunding the buyer after return of the item. Paypal does the same, and CREDIT CARDS do the same. We are lucky in that Ebay and Paypal will cover us for INRs if we have tracking stating delivered.

You're a business. Act like one. You can rarely stop a fraudster if they want to steal from you. You CAN cover yourself before it happens. That's what businesses do.

The easier you are to offend the easier you are to control.

We seem to be getting closer and closer to a situation where nobody is responsible for what they did but we are all responsible for what somebody else did. - Thomas Sowell

fishinglureguy · ‎08-06-2017

eBay's process for disputes is broken, and the main reason I stopped listing items about a year ago. The Seller takes the loss, on most occasions, because the process to settle disputes lies in a decision which is only based on hearsay. The Sellers provide eBay their main revenue, yet eBay refuses to back them up. Poor policy and the reason I no longer sell on eBay. Horrible company.