What is the policy on seller returning an item he broke?

[sysrpl]

The TLDR: Someone return a laptop I sold them in a loosely resting in cardboard box.  Now it is physically broken in several places.

I've been selling on Ebay for what will be twenty years this coming October. Recently I ran into a situation I don't know how to handle, and I am hoping someone here can help me understand how to handle it should it ever happen again.

A customer bought a reconditioned laptop from me. I had a 30 day return policy and they contacted me at day 40 after their receipt asking for a return. I asked what the problem was and also explain because it was beyond the 30 days I could not accept a return, but perhaps I could give them technical support, a partial refund, or an exchange if they could explain the nature of the problem.

Customer responds the program crashes and they want a refund (no further details). I explain again I cannot issue a refund after the 30 days of their receipt. They threaten to go to PayPal and file a complaint asking for a refund.

Since it seems they are determined to return the laptop I begrudgingly decide to go through Ebay instead of PayPal and  issue them a return label. A week later they still haven't mailed the item back and have now opened a PayPal dispute. I respond on PayPal in their resolution center that I already handled it through Ebay and am waiting for them to return the item.

Eventually I receive the laptop return. When I open their return box I see a laptop inside a box loose with no packing material to cushion the laptop. The laptop was just sliding around in the box loose with nothing to hold it from getting all banged up.

When I take the laptop out of the box I see this damage:

USB port ripped apart:

Dropped on corner:

Lid crushed:

What should I do in situations like this where the buyer either dropped a laptop and packed it poorly on return conceal that fact, or is oblivious to common logic as to how to pack and ship a weighty piece of fragile electronics?

[green-night]

Yeah that isn't good.   At least with eBay you could have withheld 50% of the refund if you offered free returns (which it looks like you do although not sure if you did with this item). 

Once they opened the PP dispute it closed the eBay dispute and you lose that option and have to refund in full. 

Did they also use your label? 

[sysrpl]

Yes, I believe they used my Ebay label. And you are right, after they opened the PayPal dispute it closed the Ebay one. The strange thing is they opened the PayPal dispute after I already agreed to handle it through Ebay.

So back to my original question, how could I have handled this differently?

[green-night]

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@sysrpl wrote:

Yes, I believe they used my Ebay label. And you are right, after they opened the PayPal dispute it closed the Ebay one. The strange thing is they opened the PayPal dispute after I already agreed to handle it through Ebay.

So back to my original question, how could I have handled this differently?

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I think you handled it right, you just had a lousy buyer.    I'd probably be hard pressed to sell that kind of thing on here.    JMO. 

[sysrpl · Accepted solution]

Thank you for you feedback. I feel better now. I will just learn to expect these types of things rarely and chalk them up to the cost of doing business. Hopefully PayPal will do the right thing and issue only a partial refund to the buyer.

[candiesduds]

Your first issue was you should NOT have accepted the return past the 30 days. Why you ever agreed to that for this is honestly perplexing to me. So the customer goes to Paypal and opened a dispute? They would have been required to ship it back, at their cost at the very least rather then print the label on your dime then run to Paypal.

What I would do now is respond to the customer via the Paypal case informing them of their ill packaging and due to the laptop being broken now you will be returning it back to them. If they don't respond then show all proof in Paypal, a customer MUST return the item in the condition which they received it! This customer did NOT receive a broken laptop and their only complaint was of internal bugs. Make sure to get proof of that from Ebay conversations and upload that, that their complaint wasn't that the laptop was broken and it clearly was working or it couldn't possibly of been 'crashing'.

I personally have never had a Paypal case, either as a buyer or a seller, however I'm sure the policies are similar to Ebay so your best bet is to go read them and if they state it should be returned in the same condition then hold them to it. That may take speaking to several CSR's as most are clueless at least here on Ebay they are, so call however many times it takes to get an American and one willing to look it over and help.

If that fails, me personally, I would flat call the buyer on their lies. They likely dropped and broke it, which is exactly why they didn't want your technical assistance as there wasn't any technical issues, opened a fraudulent return and packaged it poorly so they have the half-a$$ed excuse it got damaged in transit. I would make it clear that fraudulent behavior will not be tolerated.

[sysrpl]

I hear you. I absolutely was not going to accept the return past the 30 days with this customer based on the vagueness of their problem and they fact they they immediately refused my suggestions demanding a return instead.

In the end I decided to accept the return because I was pretty sure they would just open a PayPal dispute in it's place. When I researched Ebay return policies versus PayPal, I saw that PayPal would be a worse place to handle disputes with a customer and decided to stay within Ebay instead.

And again, reiterating, the buyer went ahead with a PayPal dispute anyways, and after I had already agreed to the return through Ebay. As @green-night  pointed out, when a buyer opens a PayPal dispute, it automatically closes any associated Ebay dispute, so I am not sure how much of a difference my decision made.

And to one of your points, yes the buyer probably did break the laptop. Possibly they dropped it, and were using the poorly packed return as a way to hide it, but there is no way to prove that I suppose. I guess it's one of the tricks unscrupulous buyers will attempt and I am not sure there is much sellers can do about it other than to ship with insurance?

Thanks for your feedback.

[green-night]

Just curious OP, did you offer "free return" on the item? 

[sysrpl]

Yes I offer free returns for 30 days on most everything including this item.

[glgenterprise]

I'm not sure there is a way that you could've handled this differently. You recognized that the buyer was going to run to PayPal if you did not approve the return, issued the label, waited for the return and then got hosed.

You're right IME - my few returns through PayPal have been even less seller friendly than eBay other than they make the buyer pay for return shipping.

Some buyers just suck and just don't care that they are screwing someone out of money. They love saving money over Best Buy or Walmart, and it never occurs to them that we don't have the market of scale to absorb a bogus return like the big box retailers can.

It's one of the issues we face as sellers since we don't have final control over the return process. At a brick and mortar or direct online retailer they can deny your return either before it comes back or after they get a **bleep** return. Yes, they can dispute with their CC provider, but it is not a cut and dry win for the buyer.

Definitely going your BBL list, I hope.

[green-night]

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@sysrpl wrote:

Yes I offer free returns for 30 days on most everything including this item.

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@candiesduds 

This is why the @sysrpl   handled this return perfectly.   In the end they did get hosed I agree but I would have done the same thing.  

Handling the return within eBay would have been the way to go because, since they offered free returns, they could have withheld not only 50% of the purchase price but also deducted original and return shipping from the refund.  If the buyer disputed that, eBay would pick up the tab.      What an awful buyer. 

[kensgiftshop]

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@candiesduds wrote:
 a customer MUST return the item in the condition which they received it!

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That is for remorse returns.

An INAD doesn't follow those rules.