USPS rejecting correctly packaged eBay standard envelope postage - How do I get my shipping $ back?

[mhooker711]

I shipped a sports card in my regular way - in a top loader and team bag inside a greeting card. It's no thicker than if you send a gift card inside a greeting card. Less than 1 oz, but I pay the extra 20 cents for 2 oz to cover non-machinable costs. The stamp total is 71 cents.

I had this one returned this week for being "odd-shaped" even though hundreds of others have made it to their destinations without a problem. It just seems that the Palantine, IL distribution center got it wrong - they just must not know about the eBay discount. 

So my question is, how do I get my money back for the 71 cents I'm out because of USPS lack of knowledge? This may seem like small potatoes but it's irritating because it impacts my relationship with buyers. I've already sent the seller replacement cards so now I've spent double on shipping. Is there a seller's protection for other people's mistakes like this? 

[calntom]

There is no seller protection for having a stamped envelope returned. The issue is between you and USPS, only. 

[terrycece62]

Have you attempted to contact your post office or  go to the website regarding this matter to inquire about  a possible refund?

as far as i know you are required to use "package w/ tracking"   but i could be mistaken 

Maybe this time you got caught ?

my suggestion would be to contact the United States Postal Service for clarification

I used to buy from a  seller that would attempt to send dvds in a large envelope but sometimes i would receive  the envelope with" postage due" but not always

[jcaterstore]

Did you stamp it non-machineable?  If so, you really dont need to do that.  Cards that are properly packaged, which it sounds like yours is, can go through the machines with no problem.  Also i am not sure that just paying the extra 20 cents is good enough to make it non-machineable. With stamps.com you had to check a box to make it non-machineable and at the post office you're supposed to buy a non-machineable stamp, which i've read you cant add to an envelope with an electronic postage stamp.

Im not sure what you mean by ebay discount.  Its not an ebay discount, its the price of an electronic postage stamp when you use electronic stamps (pitney bowes, stamps.com, etc).  And the "ebay standard envelope" isnt some special thing between ebay and the post office.  its just ebay taking advantage of the Intelligent Mail Barcode to "track" envelopes through the USPS system and to sell us postage that we bought on our own in the past when shipping PWE.

And from what I read there are no refunds for postage stamps through ebay.

[stephenmorgan]

You Notice said Odd Shape or Rigid so do you think maybe it was too Rigid?

You purchased this service thru eBay's shipping service Pitney Bowes so I would try to contact eBay Shipping as they are the one who sold you "eBay Standard Envelope".  I do not believe the USPS offers this service, do they?  

As I recall, the last time I received a Postage Refund because I canceled a Label, it came from eBay Shipping and not thru USPS.

I am curious why the Tracking Number does not seem to exists on USPS on Pitney Bowes?

[no_zero369]

@mhooker711 

Ah I see from your last photo that this is an eBay Standard Envelope (SE) issue!  A lot of sellers have been getting caught by this program.  It seems to be a great idea as it saves money, but the devil appears to be in the details, unfortunately!  So getting caught with this - you are not alone!  A lot of posts on these threads with disgruntled sellers.  Does not appear to have been a well thought out program.

Take a look at the TOS for the SE as I suspect what caught you lies in there.

https://pages.ebay.com/sell/standarddelivery/termsofservice.html

From the cheap seat here, I'll give some observations, fwiw.  Please don't shoot the messenger?😎

What you showed for thickness is appears as though it could be TOO thick.  The SE is designed to go through high speed sorting machines and be sorted there and directed to the right 'bin.'  As such they need to be bendable to a degree that they can bend 45-90-degrees around drums and bends in the sorting machine, all while fling along at some high speed (60 mph?).  My guess is there is sorting machine before the high speed one that rejects envelopes that are, in its calibration, "too" rigid or too thick.  That could explain why the envelop was deemed as "non-machinable?"  It might have gotten rejected before the machines so it didn't fly down the line and get stuck and cause a jam.

Also there are size and shape requirements for this program.  Didn't look closely at what you sent so nothing specific.  Just making an observation.  I think there are pictures of size/shape in the info on the SE.

https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/shipping/ebay-standard-envelope.html#what-you-need-to-know

Now the devil is in the details part... from the TOS....a section that essentially says that eBay's "vendor" (USPS) can make whatever decision it wants and reject any "parcel."  Don't let the harsh language put you off, it's eBay legalese.  So perhaps, in the "reasonable opinion" of the Palatine Sorting Center, that one SE didn't pass. Not sure how one gets that, especially if others similarly packed made it through.  But who ever said eBay or USPS were totally reasonable? sigh

Parcels that are inappropriately packaged
We may not accept items for delivery which in the reasonable opinion of our Carriers are inappropriately packaged. Carriers may, in their sole discretion, decide to repack your Parcel to comply with certain requirements for which you may incur additional charges to cover the price of repackaging. Please note that Carriers are under no obligation to secure the safety of your shipments nor to carry out any repackaging. By using our Services you acknowledge in these circumstances that additional charges may be levied (see paragraph 9) or that your Parcel may be rejected. We shall not be liable or responsible for any damage caused to Parcels that are inappropriately packaged or are repackaged by Carriers as a result of their being inappropriately packaged.

As far as a refund goes?  Well that is covered in the TOS too!  Sigh.  Isn't this a "lovely" detail hidden in the TOS - non-refundable whether used or not!  WOW!

Label charges
Charges for labels will be as set out in your order. Label charges for this program are non-refundable and non-voidable once the label is printed. Additional Charges may apply in certain circumstances which are described below in the section titled “Additional Charges”. You are committed to payment of the charges when you print the label (including additional charges). Total charges, including additional charges, if any, are calculated once we receive invoices from our suppliers based on actual shipping costs. Each time you use a label, the total charge will be added to your monthly eBay invoice and will be payable under the terms of your eBay Billing Agreement. For Managed Payments Sellers, the charges and additional charges are payable in a manner consistent with the Payments Terms of Use.

Now that said, earlier this week we had a poster note that they called eBay CS and eBay issued them a refund for the SE cost on several envelopes.  So while that technically isn't allowed, apparently eBay CS gave the refunds any way.  Go figure!  Ebay CS not following the 'rules?"  lol

Anyway, lots of growing pains on this SE thingie.  Sorry the system rejected one of yours.  Lots of sellers dealing with INR cases so at least you have that.  I know little consolation.

Hang in there!

[jgmgscarcity]

I have recently run into the same problem. It is possible to meet the standards as set in the eBay Standard Envelope guidelines page but apparently not meet the USPS guidelines as @no_zero369 explained very well. Here is the link for the Standard Envelope guidelines:  https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/shipping/ebay-standard-envelope.html.

While I had been shipping standard envelopes for $0.51 (under 1 oz.) and $0.71 (under 2 oz.) thinking this was a great way to lower costs and make buying/selling of lesser valuable cards more efficient, turns out USPS might reject these because they don't qualify as "non-machinable". I spoke with my local USPS today and the only resolution they had was to make the shipping meet "non-machinable" qualifications. They weren't entirely clear but my understanding was that postage has to be equal to or greater than $0.75, and they sold me some $0.20 "additional ounce" stamps to get there (for $0.51 eBay shipping envelope). Seems like there's either a misunderstanding from eBay's standpoint or the USPS. Being that it is a relatively new program maybe some USPS locations aren't aware. As the original poster noted, I've had around 50 similar envelopes make it to their destination, so I'm not sure if they just had been covering it for me or what. I also wonder if the $0.51 is only the price paid to eBay for tracking. It's frustrating especially considering the number of envelopes that aren't being scanned all the way to delivery.

I'm considering going to PWE shipping and taking the risk that buyers are honest about receiving their orders for these lesser valued cards. Anyone else with experience and/or advice feel free to share. I think this is a great opportunity for trading at low costs on both ends if done right.

[lamber9347]

Sorry for this reply in advance, and I am not trying to upset you any further. I don't see why you would expect eBay to eat the 71 cents on the postage when it was USPS who is sending back your envelope. There is no guarantee in the policies from eBay that any discrepancies between seller and the shipping company will be covered by eBay. The decision was from a USPS employee as you said, so why should eBay pay for it?

Sorry for your double dipping on the postage. Best of luck to you....

[hat515]

There is some really bad information being shared on this topic.  I am in no means an expert but I can speak to my issues.

1) Ebay and the USPS intended this program to be machineable mail.

2) Thus, if USPS is sending back things to you saying it's non machineable, then that is an error on their part.

3) FYI, this HAS been happening to me at a decent clip.  10% of my Ebay standard envelopes have come back to me.  

4) I believe the USPS staff are not well trained on this program at all.  

5) It IS a discounted mail program, the Ebay standard envelope prices are not the same as normal machineable mail postage.  That's why people are getting letters back to their house saying postage due or not sufficient postage, etc.

Steps to remedy

1) Go talk to your Post office.   I don't imagine a talk with a post office supervisor or manager will really do anything to be honest, but its worth a try.  

2) I have had more success with the following.   Most of my returns have been validly postaged 51 cent envelopes.   They met all Ebay Std Envelope requirements, were less than 1 oz, were less than 1/4" thick, in a paper envelope, etc.  So....don't use the 51 cent level.   Charge your customers for the 71 cent level, and print a 71 cent level label.  Less than 1% of these have been returned to me and I have had better success with 71 cent labels getting delivered for whatever reason.   

3) Find another PO to go to.  I've started going to my PO in the next town over.  It is bigger and I have had less things returned to me from there.  I'm guessing their mail sorting machines are bigger/faster/better and/or their folks understand the program better.

4) Regarding any issues you've had with labels, you CAN have an Ebay rep help refund you for label postage.  I haven't had to do this a lot, as you only get charged for the label when your item shows as delivered.   But....there were a few times that the PO returned a envelope to me saying more postage was required and they X'ed out the label that was on there.   I chatted with an Ebay rep and she refunded me the cost of the label.  It was an easy 5 min chat conversation.   I generated a new label and put it back in the mail.  Done. 

Hope this has helped others..... 

[lacemaker3]

---

@hat515 wrote:

...

1) Ebay and the USPS intended this program to be machineable mail.

2) Thus, if USPS is sending back things to you saying it's non machineable, then that is an error on their part.

...

 Or, it may be that the envelope did not meet the requirements to be machinable, in which case the USPS was correct in saying that it was non machinable.

The problem seems to hinge on the use of top loaders. I am sure that there are different types of top loaders available, which are made by different companies, probably of different materials. More rigid top loaders are probably going to continue to cause trouble, and the advice on being able to use top loaders, probably refers to ones that are more flexible.

[oldskoolmadskilz]

Here are the basic requirements:

Ratio of length to height must be 1.3 or more
Can't be less than 3.5" tall or 5" long

Can't be over .25" thick
Must be somewhat flexible
Must be paper on the outside

Did it not meet any of these?

[annadryl]

This thread is quite old.

[buffalocards-coins]

I also had some returned for being too rigid. I was using the small thick DVD cardboard mailers which were very rigid/hard so I switched to larger mailers and have had no issues. The larger lighter ones can bend better in the machines.  USPS does not recognize e-bay envelopes and has no contract with e-bay. My mailman told me they feel like e-bay is cheating the system by not purchasing first class tracking numbers. To this day I get 4 or 5 packages sent back monthly for postage due even though I paid the correct amount for 1 oz and used a plastic sliding template to make sure they all go through the machines easily.  But hundreds do get delivered with no problems. I guess it just depends on the person working.

[sweetspotcollectiblez]

It’s a complete USPS ERROR! When standard card shipping in PWE Some envelope’s get returned with postage due because of 2 reason.. 1 the postal working might be new and is not familiar with eBay standard shipping. Or 2 they’re all just a bunch of idiots! Lol sorry! Anyway… I’ve had some issues with this but I emailed and called every post office that returned the envelope! And 99% of the time I got “this is a new postal worker who didn’t know!” So after sending it back out I’ve had no issues! Lastly I have people that work for the post office and their comment is lack of training along with they hire anything and everything right now! So it’s a complete failure on USPS! Thank you USPS for double dipping our pockets for postage! 

[soh.maryl]

Original message is nearly 2 years old.

There is some interesting info in your reply though, so you may want to start your own thread.