eBay

crackeroni · ‎06-30-2021

Greetings,

I've just sold two mobile phones -- as separate auctions -- and something strange happened both times. I needed the second time to occur to notice the first time it happened.

I sold the first phone, and within an hour of doing so, I get this email saying "It was an interesting auction" and the buyer asks me to send the phone a different address than listed on eBay -- because the buyer wants to send it as a gift to their friend. They even ask (distract) by including a fairly personal message to include with said gift. A romantic message.

I of course said "I don't think so" but the distraction worked. There was something I didn't notice until I sold the second phone to a different buyer. Again, within the hour, I get an email from the buyer saying "It was an interesting auction" with another different address request and personal message to include.

It was then I noticed these emails weren't from the actual buyers. The scam is for me not to notice that an accidentally send to the new address. So the phone vaporizes.

Is this a common scam or was I just 'lucky'. Please note: the actual buyers are legit.

alcoforever · ‎06-30-2021

Very common scam. As you said, actual buyers are legit and have no knowledge that their items have been hijacked.

You gotta pay attention to detail in this business.

simba6 · ‎06-30-2021

High end mobile phones bring them "out of the woodwork" every time. Very common scam.

redmodelt · ‎06-30-2021

Email or eBay message? Either case, ignore and ship to buyer shown in ship now message to avoid a strike (or two) on your account.

buyselljack2016 · ‎06-30-2021

@crackeroni

Did you ship USPS?

Is it delivered?

May be able to do a USPS intercept to have it returned.

crackeroni · ‎06-30-2021

If eBay would let me edit my initial post I'd have been able to add that I didn't fall for the scam. I see how it can appear I did from my wording. What I did fall for is that I responded to the first email.

What impresses me is how STUPID these scammers are. The username was very similar and the message was a cut and paste job.

What is infuriating to me is that time and again eBay seems to set up a hostile environment for the seller. For instance, above many have said this is a common scam. The correct way to phrase this is that eBay tolerates this common scam and does nothing about it.

Solution? Once an item is purchased only the buyer and eBay can contact the seller. Provide an opt out button if someone wants to receive baloney emails.

Secondly -- despite not accepting offers -- I was offered anyways. That is annoying. If I don't accept offers I should be able to report users making offers anyway. One was being a bit of a jerk.

Does eBay understand that if it is a hostile environment for sellers that they'll lose the very lifeblood of this site?

eburtonlab · ‎06-30-2021

Back when such a thing was possible, I received a negative as a buyer.

The seller accused me of paying for domestic shipping and then attempting to have the seller ship to an international location that wound up being much more expensive. I quickly contacted the seller that I had made no such request; the seller was very apologetic and had the feedback removed. I did wind up receiving the item (a scale), but if the scammer had not requested such an expensive shipping diversion, the seller almost certainly would have gone along with the request and shipped the item to the scammer. I would have had to file an "item not received" case, and the seller would have been forced to refund me since the seller would not have been able to provide tracking showing delivery to the address included with payment.

Only ship to the address that comes with payment. If the actual buyer requests a change in address after payment but before the items ships, you can cancel the transaction and allow the buyer to buy again and enter the correct address. Otherwise you are not protected in the case of a "not received" claim.

eburtonlab · ‎06-30-2021

Solution? Once an item is purchased only the buyer and eBay can contact the seller. Provide an opt out button if someone wants to receive baloney emails.

That might prevent some scams (at a significant cost of doing away with all pre-transaction communication on eBay), but would not prevent the version of the scam where the buyer is the scammer. The buyer requests the item be shipped to another location. If the seller complies, the buyer can open an "Item not received" case and the seller cannot provide tracking that shows delivery to the original address that came with the payment.

Typically the seller will lose the case at that point. The seller can appeal, and point to the messages requesting diversion by the buyer. The seller may be able to win the appeal, but that is far from assured. If the diversion request is made via email, it is unlikely that eBay will accept the seller's copy of the email as evidence.

It is better for the seller to follow policy and only ship to the address that comes with payment.

a_c_green · ‎06-30-2021

@crackeroni wrote:
It was then I noticed these emails weren't from the actual buyers. The scam is for me not to notice that and accidentally send to the new address. So the phone vaporizes.

Is this a common scam or was I just 'lucky'. Please note: the actual buyers are legit.

It is a common scam, yes, but just to be clear here: it can be just as much of a scam if your actual buyer makes the same request after payment. If you do not ship to the address received with the payment, the buyer can file an Item Not Received dispute and win.

While it might be worth the risk of shipping to an alternate address if it's just some $10 sale to an absent-minded buyer, a high-value, high-scam item should only go to the Ship-To: address received with the payment, and nowhere else.

crackeroni · ‎06-30-2021

I said, Once an item is purchased only the buyer and eBay can contact the seller. Provide an opt out button if someone wants to receive baloney emails.

You said, That might prevent some scams (at a significant cost of doing away with all pre-transaction communication on eBay)

But, again, I said ONCE an item is purchased which eliminates that scam.

Then you said, (it) would not prevent the version of the scam where the buyer is the scammer.

Yes, but a fix to one problem need not fix a different problem. The fix only need not generate a new problem. Once an auction is over there is no need for other members to contact the seller until after the item is shipped. Unless you can think of something. I can't.

Now, here's the other (unrelated) problem that needs its own fix -- The buyer requests the item be shipped to another location. If the seller complies, the buyer can open an "Item not received" case and the seller cannot provide tracking that shows delivery to the original address that came with the payment.

Again, this one is real simple. The buyer cannot change the address. Period. So whatever is on file is where it goes. When the buyer goes to bid on it eBay presents the address on file and informs THIS PURCHASE WILL BE SHIPPED TO THAT ADDRESS.

Give me another scam. I bet I can fix it.

alcoforever · ‎06-30-2021

@crackeroni wrote:

Give me another scam. I bet I can fix it.

Buyer claims package was empty on arrival.

eburtonlab · ‎06-30-2021

Again, this one is real simple. The buyer cannot change the address. Period. So whatever is on file is where it goes. When the buyer goes to bid on it eBay presents the address on file and informs THIS PURCHASE WILL BE SHIPPED TO THAT ADDRESS.

That is the current system. Buyers cannot change the shipping address after payment. The problem is that sellers still fall for scams and still change the address at the request of scammers (or buyers who are scammers).

a_c_green · ‎06-30-2021

@crackeroni wrote:
Yes, but a fix to one problem need not fix a different problem. The fix only need not generate a new problem. Once an auction is over there is no need for other members to contact the seller until after the item is shipped. Unless you can think of something. I can't.

I can: I will frequently get messages from both watchers and bidders on the completed auction, asking questions ranging from whether I will have another listed soon to some technical questions on the similar thing that they have already. Aside from the obvious change-of-address scam request, I cannot think of any other post-sale request that I would want to block.

@crackeroni wrote:
Now, here's the other (unrelated) problem that needs its own fix -- The buyer requests the item be shipped to another location. If the seller complies, the buyer can open an "Item not received" case and the seller cannot provide tracking that shows delivery to the original address that came with the payment.

Again, this one is real simple. The buyer cannot change the address. Period. So whatever is on file is where it goes. When the buyer goes to bid on it eBay presents the address on file and informs THIS PURCHASE WILL BE SHIPPED TO THAT ADDRESS.

I agree that it's a common scam that could be avoided by setting things up that way (though I would show that message at payment time, not when the buyer goes to bid), but it takes away the seller's prerogative to ship the item elsewhere if he wants to.

I suspect that if eBay did institute that rule, we could learn to live with it, but there are still enough clueless-but-honest buyers out there who, say, forget to update their Ship-To: address after moving, who could be shut out of an otherwise legitimate sale because the seller cannot help them to correct their oversight.

This change-of-address problem is a common scam that could be addressed with that restriction, so I'm not really arguing against it here, but I can't see eBay agreeing to it, because they hate doing anything that would inconvenience any customer... at all...

crackeroni · ‎06-30-2021

Buyer claims package was empty on arrival.

I'll admit that's a beauty. But it's fixable. I'll throw in the brick scenario as well, meaning a brick of the exact same weight was sold -- tricking even the shipping company. Before I answer I must provide a broader solution that eventually addresses this specific.

I believe eBay must differentiate between Trusted Members and New/Unknown Members. That Noobs don't have the same rights as established members.

I believe the solution is identity. The way Facebook wants you to really be you is the way eBay must operate. That what you have to go thru to get a credit card and establish good credit --

-- would be almost identical on eBay. And if you already had good credit you would like become a Trusted Member relatively quickly. But if you messed around it could actually effect your credit.

I know this isn't a specific answer to your specific problem -- but your question reveals a systemic problem with eBay. "We sure hope things work out and if they don't we're very buyer friendly." Huh?

crackeroni · ‎07-01-2021

I'm still thinking about the BUYER CLAIMS PACKAGE WAS EMPTY solution.

But I'll add this. My gut feeling is that eBay isn't good at fixing problems. Amazon is. It's a corporate culture thing. Someone up high is perfectly happy with all the scamming that is currently tolerated and everyone below doesn't feel too comfortable challenging that person.

I say eBay lists some of the most common scams. One's that aren't that clever and so revealing them helps more than hurts. Then eBay offers $100,000 per smart solution. I promise you JUST THAT would eliminate 95% of scams and make eBay what it should have been all along.