Shipping US to China - HELP! :)

[kathimac05]

I need some help with best way to ship a pair of altec lansing cabinete speakers to China. I've check UPS and the cost (air) is more than the speakers. I'm not familiar with the global shipping program. The weight will be about 200 lbs, crated, from US 37405 to Yulin China, 537000. Can anyone give me some direction on what would be least expensive way to ship these speakers to China? Should I check the global shipping box so that is an option?  I did uncheck it when first appeared bc it was messing things up but have shipped to many countries overseas, including Asia, with no problems. I've never shipped anything this heavy. Surely there is a way that is not so expensive. Thanks in advance for any help or direction you can give. kathi 

PS - The prospective buyer wants " Use wooden and packing blanket, fixed box tray."

[kathimac05]

No offense taken, David. I really appreciate the input even if it seemed some people wanted to berate me for things that I was not doing/feeling/saying/thinking. The only thing I was determined to do was to get as much information as I could to make the best decision for me and potential buyers.

Since I opted back in to GSP with eBay's help and assurrance that I could unselect it from my listings, I have had a problem over this. I had to go through each active listing and take off global shipping. Checking now on some things about to expire, somehow global shipping to China has shown up on ALL my listings. No edits are working so I'm having to go through and end each listing, then relist.

As unpleasant as this is, it's a much lesser price to pay than the worst case scenario with the speakers. I communicated with the potential buyer this morning and told him I was going to take more photos, create better description, and make a video with sound. That the only way they would qualify for global shipping is if they were shipped separately and that it would have to be an "as is," no returns sale. 

[missjen831]

Why are you telling the buyer the speakers are being sold as is, no returns? Did you not see where I said that the money back guarantee TRUMPS your return policy? You can say whatever you want in the listing but that does NOT make it part of the "contract" and ebay will not enforce it. Your buyer probably knows darn well that they are covered by the money back guarantee no matter what your listing says. If you want to set your own terms and be able to enforce them, then you need to sell the speakers elsewhere. eBay sets the rules here. You are required to follow them. 

[kathimac05]

I'm thinking we would actually have a contract between us setting the terms. From the good advice given here, if I have lots of photos, sound video, documentation of everything and they buyer accepts the condition and wants to buy, then we could craft a deal that would work for both of us. If I have proof of their condition when shipped and they use global shipping, who assums liability for loss or damage, then they could not say they were in a condition other than the listing stated. Wrong?

Update - didn't have to change all istings. May have reverted to original listing once I got global shipping off. It was a fright - seeing 1,000. shipping to china for a DVD. lol

[missjen831]

I don't know how to get through to you here.  There is NO contract here. eBay has rules and policies and one of those policies is the money back guarantee. That policy TRUMPS, over rules, overrides ANY of your policies and anything you say in the listing. Period. It does NOT matter if you and the buyer make agreements via eBay messaging. It does not matter if you state "as is, all sales final, no returns" in huge text on the listing. Those terms are unenforceable and there wasn't a contract. Again you are playing by Ebays rules and following their policies. This is not a court of law, this is eBay. If you list the speakers as used and working and the buyer says they don't work, you cannot simply say too bad too sad, they were sold as is, no returns and wash your hands of it. That is NOT how it works here. however you have been hellbent on making this sale despite the warnings so I know you are going to ignore all the warnings and sound advice you have been given and sell the speakers through the GSP to the buyer in China. This is not an attack at all. I am trying to help you. But I can't save you from yourself with that, I am done. I don't know how else to get through to you that you are making a BAD decision and setting yourself up to lose thousands of dollars. 

[lonz55]

I would not even consider shipping a vintage electronic item of that value to China, vintage working electronics  i like the buyer present at the time of sale to make sure it is mutually agreed they are purchasing what was represented to them, at that point they can either purchase or walk away.

[chrysylys]

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@lonz55 wrote:

I would not even consider shipping a vintage electronic item of that value.

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There.  Fixed that for you.

Local pick up only.  Period.

[lintbrush*]

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@kathimac05 wrote:

I'm thinking we would actually have a contract between us setting the terms. From the good advice given here, if I have lots of photos, sound video, documentation of everything and they buyer accepts the condition and wants to buy, then we could craft a deal that would work for both of us. If I have proof of their condition when shipped and they use global shipping, who assums liability for loss or damage, then they could not say they were in a condition other than the listing stated. Wrong?

Update - didn't have to change all istings. May have reverted to original listing once I got global shipping off. It was a fright - seeing 1,000. shipping to china for a DVD. lol

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You are picking and choosing words from all the advice given to suit your needs on how you think you can craft a deal protecting you, but you are gnoring the complete scenario.  "Wrong?"  Yes.  Your 'deal' means nothing if the buyer claims Not As Described.

Look beyond this thread - to all of the other threads regarding Not As Described returns (whether legit or not) when the seller tries to fight it and said that they submitted proof of some claim or another, the buyer agreed to buy it As Is, they have a message from that buyer assuming all of the risk, they have video documentation, their listing says As Is, the buyer wouldn't send picture proof of damage.  For a Money Back Guarantee Item Not As Described claim, no proof is required from the buyer.   Proof from the seller means nothing (how do they know you actually sent what you said you did?) 

GSP only assume liability for loss or damage.  They don't cover Not As Described claim if the buyer says they don't work right.  The buyer could open and strip them and return you the wooden case and you'd still be stuck refunding them everything and then some. 

Also, they do not just have to be shipped separately for the GSP, they have to be listed separately too.   What if one gets damaged or lost and the other doesnt?  The buyer would not likely want one working speaker. What if the buyer says both are not working.  You would be responsible for 4x shipping then.  To x 2 and From x 2.

Again - READ OTHER THREADS regarding MBG returns and sellers who tried to hold their ground and fight a MGB SNAD return.   So many of them lost their money, their item and STILL owed selling fees. 

I promised myself I wouldn't come back, but I can't just sit idly by and watch a seller lose 4k easily.

[lonz55]

There is a man that comes to Chattanooga every Saturday and picks up and returns Vintage electronics from the past, he repairs them for the shops in that area, his pickup fees are very resonable and he is out of Jasper TN. If you would like his name and phone number message me, he may be someone that can give you an idea of what you have and test them for you

[kathimac05]

I'm talking about executing a contract and making it a part of the agreement through eBay sale. I hear you and understand what you are saying about eBay's rules trumping anything else. It's just a thought. You may not have read all the posts bc I am not hell bent on doing anything. I was learning, reseraching, fishing for possible pitfalls and have gotten lots of good help here. Part of what I have heard is that my description, photos, etc. need to be better so that (what ever those initials are) they could not be said to be other than described. Unless this buyer really wants to work with me to make sure this is also a safe sale for me, odds are that it will not go through. I do have them for sale though and the information I gather will be useful in any sale, even in the US.  thanks

[lintbrush*]

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@kathimac05 wrote:

I'm talking about executing a contract and making it a part of the agreement through eBay sale. I hear you and understand what you are saying about eBay's rules trumping anything else. It's just a thought. You may not have read all the posts bc I am not hell bent on doing anything. I was learning, reseraching, fishing for possible pitfalls and have gotten lots of good help here. Part of what I have heard is that my description, photos, etc. need to be better so that (what ever those initials are) they could not be said to be other than described. Unless this buyer really wants to work with me to make sure this is also a safe sale for me, odds are that it will not go through. I do have them for sale though and the information I gather will be useful in any sale, even in the US.  thanks

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The buyer can give you a sworn affidavit agreeing to your "As Is" terms but it means nothing to eBay or PayPal.  You agreed to THEIR terms when choosing to sell on this venue and use their services.

[kathimac05]

Thanks, but I can just run some speaker wires from my music room upstairs to where these are downstairs to test and video them. If you'd like to email me his name and contact info, I'm kathi dot mcintire at letter before h mail. Wouldn't hurt to let him know I have them for sale since he's local. Thanks

[kathimac05]

Can't find post from helpful person who said they weren't going to come back but did. Wanted to say glad you didn't leave mad. 🙂 

One of the reasons I'm being so cautious about this is that I have paid to learn some very hard lessons on eBay sales. Early on, I sold a $1200 ashtray to an antiques dealer in NY. He claimed it was damaged when received. It wasn't damaged when it left here but no problem, offered refund when returned. It had been shipped USPS with insurance. Buyer sent photos of crushed box, etc. I filed claim since it was damaged in transit and USPS wouldn't honor their insurance. I ended up selling it for $900 so ended well but learned what poster said about eBay being buyer-centric. 

During that and some other problematic transaction (rare) I've read tons of the horror stories here. One of the reasons I'm grateful for this forum. You guys are another!

[a_c_green]

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@kathimac05 wrote:

Wouldn't hurt to let him know I have them for sale since he's local.

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That would be the ideal outcome. 

As regards shipping them elsewhere (anywhere) as part of an eBay sale, you seem to have the impression that you can hammer out some sort of contract with your buyer that will make the sale permanent, but you cannot.

You will not be able to sit on the buyer's payment and, in effect, state that it's a done deal, no refunds, etc., because eBay can and almost certainly will grant the buyer a full refund anyway if he files a Significantly Not As Described dispute, following you and him presumably failing to come to any agreement short of refunding.

eBay/PayPal will then come after you to reimburse them for their refund to the buyer. They can and will turn it over to a collection agency if necessary. If you use the eBay venue to sell your speakers, you do so according to eBay's terms of sale (and buyer protection), not yours, and when a four-figure sale price is at stake, they will come after you for a refund if they decide that the buyer is entitled to one. If you want the speakers back, you would have to retrieve them at your expense.

Again, there is no other contract you can work out with your buyer that would preclude eBay's rules. They take precedence over yours. You need to understand that if you are to sell here, and as a result, there are some items, such as those speakers, that are best sold as Local Pickup Only, no shipping by you, and nothing else. Good luck.

[lintbrush*]

I didn't leave mad.  I left frustrated because you are selectively picking things you think will work to your advantage for selling these speakers but ignoring all the things that actually matter.

As far as your ashtray buyer, you were lucky they cooperated with the claim even though it was ultimately denied.  They did not have to (although many would). 

Please take off the blinders and read the ENTIRE responses and realize this is not the right place to sell your speakers and be 100% protected.  If you want to gamble, go ahead.  Might as well buy 4k in lottery scratch offs. 

[twnpopcards]

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@kathimac05 wrote:

Can't find post from helpful person who said they weren't going to come back but did. Wanted to say glad you didn't leave mad. 🙂 

One of the reasons I'm being so cautious about this is that I have paid to learn some very hard lessons on eBay sales. Early on, I sold a $1200 ashtray to an antiques dealer in NY. He claimed it was damaged when received. It wasn't damaged when it left here but no problem, offered refund when returned. It had been shipped USPS with insurance. Buyer sent photos of crushed box, etc. I filed claim since it was damaged in transit and USPS wouldn't honor their insurance. I ended up selling it for $900 so ended well but learned what poster said about eBay being buyer-centric. 

During that and some other problematic transaction (rare) I've read tons of the horror stories here. One of the reasons I'm grateful for this forum. You guys are another!

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@kathimac05

It does not matter what you put in a contract with this person.  Nothing that you say they agreed to is enforceable if they claim item not as described through Ebay.  Even if you test the speakers and everything now, that does not mean that is how they will get them as shipping does take a toll  on tings.  Also, if this buyer is out to scam you (I am just saying IF), when they get your speakers all they have to do is say they do not work, you now will have to make a decision to either let them keep the speakers (which are probably just fine) and refund them all their money, or pay to get the speakers back and hope the ones you get are what you sent.

There is absolutely nothing you can really do to stop a SNAD return and Ebay makes sure the buyers no it.  Even if you say NO RETURNS, Ebay will force you to take the items back and pay for the shipping or they will just take the full amount the buyer paid from your Paypal account and tell the buyer to keep the speakers.  That is all we are trying to get you to understand, and maybe you do,  but when you continue to say you are going to fine tune this contract between you and the buyer as part of the deal - it makes no difference when the buyer claims SNAD on speakers that are supposedly working.

I hope this helps get what I am trying to say across to you.  

David

Twnpopcards