Sellers protection and false SNAD claims, fighting the fight

[ste_2639]

I listed my experience here https://community.ebay.com/t5/Member-To-Member-Support/another-newbie-scammed-by-buyer-and-eBay-with... about my recent experience with an Ebay buyer and false claim.

And as everyone here knows, sellers protection is joke and the no returns policy is non existent once a buyer selects not as described they automatically win. 

Well, I don't know whether or not this helps but at least I'm hoping it proves our point. An Ebay high values claims rep left a voicemail for me, in it she admitted her manager agrees it was a buyers remorse case but they still don't care and I still have to accept the return request.

Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. But it at least makes me feel better when no one seems to believe us and when Ebay states that "we strongly believe in protecting our sellers".

[orangehound]

Yeah, these days, if a buyer claims NAD through the Money Back Guarantee, eBay pretty much wants you to take it back ... even in cases of obvious remorse.

eBay will sometimes refund the cost of return shipping to you if a buyer is abusing the Money Back Guarantee ... as they are in this case ... you just have to ask (and don't take a "coupon" because you will never see it).   Also, make sure that you report the user as abusing the Money Back Guarantee.

[green-night]

No surprise there.  

At the very least I think what eBay should offer is that for sellers who offer free returns, they should allow the seller to deduct the cost of the return shipping label (and original shipping) from the refund if it can be shown that the  buyer opened the return for the wrong reason and stand by the seller if the buyer disputes it from there.   Maybe someday but not holding my breath because that makes way too much sense for eBay.   Although I might be tempted to try it anyway. 

[mam98031]

The return policies options are as follows.

1. No Returns
2. 30 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
3. 60 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
4. 30 day returns w/ seller pays shipping
5. 60 day returns w/ seller pays shipping.

With option number 1, No Returns the seller can completely deny taking a return for a Buyer's Remorse Return Request.  Or if they want to they can accept the return and have the buyer pay the return shipping.  If the seller so chooses they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer.

On options 2 & 3 the buyer is responsible for the return shipping on a Buyer's Remorse Return.  Plus if the seller so chooses they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer.

On options 4 & 5 above, they are also known as Free Returns.  If a seller that has either of those policies they will pay the return shipping even on a buyer's remorse return.  A seller can’t withhold the original shipping value from the refund.  Also Seller’s offering options 4 or 5 have the ability to do partial refunds in certain cases if the item arrives back damaged, missing something or in a condition less than what it was sent to the buyer in, see the policy for more details, the link is below.

ALL OPTIONS [1, 2, 3, 4 and 5] are required to process SNAD claims without exception.  Even if they are improperly filed and should have been a Buyer’s Remorse claim.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/handle-return-request-seller?id=4115

https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/seller-updates/2018-spring/simplified-returns.html#m17-1-tb1

[ste_2639]

Thanks for your copy & paste. 

I don't understand the purpose your post though, it only enforces my position that the no returns policy is useless. All buyer has to do is claim not as described and it automatically overrides the no returns policy as you even indicated, no questions asked.

All eBay has done is created a loophole for remorse unethical buyers. They are not required to show proof and obviously eBay does not carry out any investigations and simply don't care.

Even though eBay agrees with me that it was indeed a buyers remorse case, they still will not enforce their no returns policy, so why even have that as an option? 

Where is that sellers protection guarantee they promise? Why else would I sell a $8400 watch if I didn't believe in their assurance and guarantee?

[robot-hands]

---

@ste_2639 wrote:

n Ebay states that "we strongly believe in protecting our sellers".

---

Ebay also states they have a zero tolerance policy for criminal activity.

I don't have a big enough face to flash the smile that came when I read that.

[ste_2639]

I know right??

And to make matters worse, I received an email from PayPal last night that I had a case opened for a missing refund/credit for another watch I sold. First time I've heard about this!

Ebay, it's a scary place.

[couldabeenworse]

At the very least I think what eBay should offer is that for sellers who offer free returns, they should allow the seller to deduct the cost of the return shipping label (and original shipping) from the refund if it can be shown that the buyer opened the return for the wrong reason and stand by the seller if the buyer disputes it from there

Huh?  "Free Returns" means the seller is paying return shipping.  How could eBay allow sellers to advertise that, then not follow through?

[couldabeenworse]

it only enforces my position that the no returns policy is useless.

"No returns" is useful when both the buyer and seller are honest.  You are correct, though, that eBay will no longer question the buyer's honesty.

[ste_2639]

No, it’s still not useful. As I said, I provided numerous proof and I have on voicemail that the eBay manager agrees it was buyers remorse, yet they will not enforce my no returns policy so why bother having it as an option?

As I stated in my other thread, I later came to find out after some research that this buyer has a watch company and is selling the same watch I sold him with the only  difference being the dial color. I offered to provide eBay this information, they said they don’t care.

it cost me $105 to ship this watch to him and lots of time wasted as well. And I even have his messages proving it was  buyers remorse and he made a false claim. But none of it matters.

[green-night]

---

@couldabeenworse wrote:

At the very least I think what eBay should offer is that for sellers who offer free returns, they should allow the seller to deduct the cost of the return shipping label (and original shipping) from the refund if it can be shown that the buyer opened the return for the wrong reason and stand by the seller if the buyer disputes it from there

Huh?  "Free Returns" means the seller is paying return shipping.  How could eBay allow sellers to advertise that, then not follow through?

---

You're right lol, that makes no sense does it?  Sellers who offer free returns would be paying return shipping in any situation.   I'll revise to say this:   They should let all sellers be able to withhold original shipping (unless it was free) in the event the buyer opens a NAD when it should have been buyers remorse and should let sellers who don't offer free returns to withhold both original and return shipping in those cases.  eBay wouldn't even need to be involved unless the buyer disputed that. 

[couldabeenworse]

No, it’s still not useful. As I said, I provided numerous proof and I have on voicemail that the eBay manager agrees it was buyers remorse, yet they will not enforce my no returns policy so why bother having it as an option?

An honest buyer, like me and millions of others, would not attempt to force a return by lying about whether or not the item was as described.  Then eBay, PayPal and credit card issuers would not be in the impossible position of discerning who is telling the truth.

[ste_2639]

And as I have stated, I’ve numerous proof and  eBay has agreed with me that a false claim was made, yet still sldes with the buyer and are not enforcing their own no returns policy knowing that a false return claim was made. Doesn’t that make eBay an accomplice to the crime?

So, where is the enforcement of the no returns policy? Where’s is the “we strongly beleive in sellers protection”? 

By the way, I’m not talking about honest buyers, I appreciate them very much, I just wished eBay would feel the same way with honest sellers like myself.

Regards @three_tw

[mam98031]

@ste_2639 wrote:

Thanks for your copy & paste. 

I don't understand the purpose your post though, it only enforces my position that the no returns policy is useless. All buyer has to do is claim not as described and it automatically overrides the no returns policy as you even indicated, no questions asked.

All eBay has done is created a loophole for remorse unethical buyers. They are not required to show proof and obviously eBay does not carry out any investigations and simply don't care.

Even though eBay agrees with me that it was indeed a buyers remorse case, they still will not enforce their no returns policy, so why even have that as an option? 

Where is that sellers protection guarantee they promise? Why else would I sell a $8400 watch if I didn't believe in their assurance and guarantee?

I'm not sure of your need to call out that what I posted was a copy & paste.  It does't make the information any less important of valid to the conversations.  Would it fit better if I just retyped it every time the I felt it added to the conversation?

Yes you are correct, it re-enforces your position.  Which was mostly the point and it was to explain to others who may not have a clear understanding.  

It is NOT a "loophole" for remorse returns.  The policies and their aftermath are by design.  Sellers were VERY vocal when this new procedure was announced at the cause and affect of it all.  Ebay didn't see it as a big issue at the time.  

Part of Ebay's new procedure is that they will NOT change the type of return no matter how much evidence the seller has that the buyer has filed incorrectly.  They will tell you that it will work out because of the Service Metrics.  Which is completely incorrect in my mind.  They also want us to report buyers that misuse the system.

There has NEVER been a "seller Protection Guarantee".  What are you referring to?

Many sellers have been on the threads complaining about just what you have.  It is important to voice our opinions, concerns and observations.  You aren't the first seller and you won't be the last.  But each and every one is important.

[ste_2639]

There was no intention of an insult with saying copy & paste. I was merely stating what you did. If you felt it was insulting then I simcerely apologize. 

I was pointing out the fact that what you posted, especially in regards to the no returns policy was a joke and am glad to see that you agree. 

As for the sellers protection, please see here https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/seller-protection-policy?id=4345

i was also referring to a reply on twitter from an eBay rep who stated “

we take our Seller Protection Policy very seriously. We'll do everything we can to support you in this situation.”

if I misread your reply incorrectly, then again I sincerely aplologize, but as you can see, it’s very frustrating to hear this from eBay yet they do nothing to help except to force you to accept the return knowing that it was a false claim or they will refund the buyer the full amount and not require buyer to return said item.