Seller misusing the 50% only refund thing?

[unicron9tj]

I could use some info on what I should expect here in a crummy situation with a buyer.

To avoid a huge long drawn out story I will just state the main facts of this but will be careful to tell it accurately so I get accurate info back.

I bought a $150 "new in box" mass produced action figure that just came out last year and is still being made. 

I noticed before buying that the item description said "Box is not pristine and has some shelf wear". 

The 2 photos of the box were small and did not enlarge much when clicked. Front of box looked perfect and looked like maybe a small ding in the bottom back corner I could push back out easily enough. Price was lowest on ebay within USA, where I am, but only by maybe $10. Overseas sellers from where the figure is made have it listed at around $30 less. 

When I got the figure and opened the package I found that the figure box inside was smashed badly, with not only a corner heavily smashed in, but 3 sides crushed and torn. Much worse damage than just "not pristine and with shelf wear". 

I told the seller that I can't leave positive feedback with how much I paid for what was a pretty misleading description and small unclear pics that did not show the extent of the box damage. I said although I bought this for the figure inside, I do keep the boxes as they greatly help retain resell value.  I told him this box is almost too smashed to even keep and asked if he wanted to do a partial refund to fix the issue. 

Seller replied telling me I should have known by "not pristine" that the box would be damaged, so the extent of damage doesn't matter since he was selling it as a new mint figure for those who don't care about a mint box, thus "we are back to square one and I won't give a partial refund". I didn't like that snippy remark, but whatever.

He said I can send it back for a refund as long as box is unopened, but that's all he'd do. 

I replied telling him that although the box condition is of some importance and I don't feel his listing was honest, I primarily bought this to have the figure and only mentioned the box issue because I can't honestly leave a glowing positive feedback with how bad it is. 

Later that day I opened the box and took the figure out. Noticed right away that a section of the hip is missing from the figure and nowhere to be found in the box either. It is a part held on by screws so clearly a factory error. 

I sent the seller pics of the figure with missing hip panel and told him that in light of this issue I will need to return this.

He basically said "no way".  He said by opening the box (only sealed by a small piece of round clear tape I cut) I have lowered the value, and since the item is not in the condition it was sent in, he will only let me return it to get 50% of my money back. 

I reminded him that he himself said he was selling it for collectors who don't care about the box, and that he admitted the box was already crushed and therefore pretty worthless, plus it isn't a rare old item where a broken seal makes a huge difference anyway. I'm asking for this return due to the figure missing something, nothing to do with the box, but he says I can go ahead and send it back to get only $75 of the $150 I paid... 

There is no way that is fair. Not only was his listing misleading as far as the condition of the box then he was unhelpful and a bit rude when I brought that up, but the figure is missing a part too. Seems I have more than enough reason to want a refund, and I shouldn't lose half of my money for it. 

I called ebay and they said if he does that I can open an appeal case to get the rest, and ebay will decide whether or not I get that. The lady on the phone said with my clear photos of the box condition and the missing part, and the fact that I brought these issues to him the day I got the package and not a month or so later, I should be alright, but possibly losing both the figure and half of my money still feels like quite a risk.

I feel like this guy is just trying to intimidate me into not sending it back, but should I be worried? 

[7606dennis]

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@unicron9tj wrote:

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@kensgiftshop wrote:

Did you file an INAD or just working with the seller?

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I clicked request a return, and when it asked me to select a reason I picked missing parts or pieces. 

Buyer accepted return and said he'd only refund me 50%, and sent a shipping label, then I sent him a message saying I need the full refund or I will have to open a case through ebay, to which he said "nope". 

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You keep using the "buyer."  It sounded to me like you were the buyer.  If you are the buyer, you should have opened an item not as described return and the seller would have been required to pay the return shipping.  However, it appears that you wanted to keep the item so the seller issued a 50% partial refund, thus closing the case.  Are you saying that you now want a full refund but want to still keep the item?  I don't think it works like that.

[myangelandmyprincess]

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@7606dennis wrote:

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@unicron9tj wrote:

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@kensgiftshop wrote:

Did you file an INAD or just working with the seller?

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I clicked request a return, and when it asked me to select a reason I picked missing parts or pieces. 

Buyer accepted return and said he'd only refund me 50%, and sent a shipping label, then I sent him a message saying I need the full refund or I will have to open a case through ebay, to which he said "nope". 

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You keep using the "buyer."  It sounded to me like you were the buyer.  If you are the buyer, you should have opened an item not as described return and the seller would have been required to pay the return shipping.  However, it appears that you wanted to keep the item so the seller issued a 50% partial refund, thus closing the case.  Are you saying that you now want a full refund but want to still keep the item?  I don't think it works like that.

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I took it that this is a seller who has free returns.  Now the buyer wanted to return the item upon discovering further issues with the figure.  The buyer has returned it I think in fact   The seller Is saying they will only refund 50% once the item is returned since they have free returns 

[tranhu-9]

Your information is useful

[myangelandmyprincess]

You made some serious mistakes.  Asking for a partial refund while also mentioning not leaving a positive feedback would qualify your feedback to be removed.  Of course in this case if the seller does have free returns it doesn't matter any feedback you leave them would be removed anyhow 

[unicron9tj]

No I meant seller, sorry. I was the buyer.
After typing buyer and seller so much yesterday the words started to blur together.

And no, I definitely wasn't trying to keep the defective item. Just want to return it for a full refund because not only was the box smashed way more than he let on in his listing, the item inside was missing an important part too.

[unicron9tj]

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@myangelandmyprincess wrote:

You made some serious mistakes.  Asking for a partial refund while also mentioning not leaving a positive feedback would qualify your feedback to be removed.  Of course in this case if the seller does have free returns it doesn't matter any feedback you leave them would be removed anyhow 

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Great...

Unless what alseyf-73 suggested I do, which I did, works even close to how he said it would with the paypal claim. 

Look, sellers very often say in their listing that before you leave anything less than 5 start positive feedback please contact me with any issues. That was literally all I did. I told him that I was not happy with how deceptive his listing was because the box was much more damaged than his description and pics showed, and considering how much that drops the value, I feel I paid too much for this and can't honestly leave great feedback. I sell things too, and I'd rather a buyer let me know of any issue so I can try to make them happy before leaving me anything less than positive feedback, but whatever...  

If alseyf-73 is correct, the ebay return case will close because I opened a paypal claim, and my "serious mistakes" will hopefully be somewhat rectified. 

Feels like this is all a little more complicated than it should be, with various options and paths like a maze where choosing the wrong thing allows you to be screwed over.

I just wanted to return the item and get a full refund. 

[te_1556]

When you file a PayPal claim or a credit card chargeback, any ongoing case at eBay will close.

The pecking order is eBay < PayPal < chargeback. This is explained in the eBay Money Back Guarantee policy:

Using other programs to address a concern

Buyers can't use more than one resolution method to get a refund. After selecting a resolution process (eBay Money Back Guarantee, PayPal Purchase Protection, or requesting a chargeback from their payment provider) a buyer is required to use only that process to resolve the transaction issue.

If a buyer requests a chargeback from their payment provider or files a PayPal Purchase Protection dispute, any requests opened through eBay for the same transaction are immediately closed.

[soh.maryl]

Perhaps I am incredibly naive or stupid or some level in between.

I have had to return only two items that I have purchased, one because the item did not match the description, and another because there was a discrepancy between the size in the title and the size in the description and I missed that fact.

But I have to ask:  Why would you not simply open an item not as described case?  

Was it an unusual circumstance for me that both sellers immediately apologized and sent a return label? 

[unicron9tj]

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@te_1556 wrote:

When you file a PayPal claim or a credit card chargeback, any ongoing case at eBay will close.

The pecking order is eBay < PayPal < chargeback. This is explained in the eBay Money Back Guarantee policy:

Using other programs to address a concern

Buyers can't use more than one resolution method to get a refund. After selecting a resolution process (eBay Money Back Guarantee, PayPal Purchase Protection, or requesting a chargeback from their payment provider) a buyer is required to use only that process to resolve the transaction issue.

If a buyer requests a chargeback from their payment provider or files a PayPal Purchase Protection dispute, any requests opened through eBay for the same transaction are immediately closed.

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Sounds like I am just waiting for ebay to send me that message to close my return I have open through them then.

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Hopefully I did the right thing following alseyf-73's advice and taking this to a Paypal claim. It certainly sounded like the thing to do if ebay now lets sellers only refund half then protects even a dishonest and unhelpful seller from negative feedback after they get their item back and screw the customer buy only refunding half of what they paid. I didn't damage or take anything from the item I got. I opened the box and found it was missing a part, so I want to return it and get my money back.  No way that is fair grounds for keeping half of what I paid. 

His claim that I altered the state of the item and the value by opening the box is absurd because he even admitted the box was already in bad shape when he sent it. 

[charity_scents]

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@unicron9tj wrote:

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@myangelandmyprincess wrote:

Look, sellers very often say in their listing that before you leave anything less than 5 start positive feedback please contact me with any issues. That was literally all I did. I told him that I was not happy with how deceptive his listing was because the box was much more damaged than his description and pics showed, and considering how much that drops the value, I feel I paid too much for this and can't honestly leave great feedback. I sell things too, and I'd rather a buyer let me know of any issue so I can try to make them happy before leaving me anything less than positive feedback, but whatever...  

You are quite considerate in trying to allow the seller to make something right that was wrong. In the future when you contact a seller to complain about anything on the transaction never state anything about feedback. They might spin it to indicate feedback extortion.
Another piece of advice that you didn't ask for: If the pictures aren't clear enough ask for bigger pictures or more clear photos with good lighting. I did that this week and the seller was quick to send larger pictures that would zoom.  I ended up purchasing the item. If a seller posts too small of photos that won't zoom, aren't clear, or too dark and won't send good quality pics, then move on to another seller. 

[unicron9tj]

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@soh.maryl wrote:

Perhaps I am incredibly naive or stupid or some level in between.

I have had to return only two items that I have purchased, one because the item did not match the description, and another because there was a discrepancy between the size in the title and the size in the description and I missed that fact.

But I have to ask:  Why would you not simply open an item not as described case?  

Was it an unusual circumstance for me that both sellers immediately apologized and sent a return label? 

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Because I was trying to work with the seller, trusting that ebay would have my back if he refused to do what was right. Instead of opening an item not as described case, I requested to return the item for a refund. No warning came up saying "IF YOU DO THIS THING, YE SHALL FORFEIT THE ABILITY TO LEAVE THIS SELLER FEEDBACK AND HE WILL BE ALLOWED TO ONLY REFUND YOU HALF OF WHAT YOU HATH PAID FORTH UNTO HIM!"

When he accepted my return request and said "Im only going to refund you half", I thought that was nuts and I was sure he couldn't actually get away with that.

Apparently a fairly new ebay policy started in 2018 that makes it so he CAN actually do that, and that's why I am posting here looking for advice. 

[unicron9tj]

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@charity_scents wrote:

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@unicron9tj wrote:

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@myangelandmyprincess wrote:

Look, sellers very often say in their listing that before you leave anything less than 5 start positive feedback please contact me with any issues. That was literally all I did. I told him that I was not happy with how deceptive his listing was because the box was much more damaged than his description and pics showed, and considering how much that drops the value, I feel I paid too much for this and can't honestly leave great feedback. I sell things too, and I'd rather a buyer let me know of any issue so I can try to make them happy before leaving me anything less than positive feedback, but whatever...  

You are quite considerate in trying to allow the seller to make something right that was wrong. In the future when you contact a seller to complain about anything on the transaction never state anything about feedback. They might spin it to indicate feedback extortion.
Another piece of advice that you didn't ask for: If the pictures aren't clear enough ask for bigger pictures or more clear photos with good lighting. I did that this week and the seller was quick to send larger pictures that would zoom.  I ended up purchasing the item. If a seller posts too small of photos that won't zoom, aren't clear, or too dark and won't send good quality pics, then move on to another seller. 

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Thank you. I really had no ill intentions when bringing the initial box damage issue to his attention, but wanted to let him know because I felt it very much warranted a neutral feedback he might want to avoid. 

My first message to him was intended as a courtesy, not an attempt at extortion.

The item said "New" and description said "Box is not pristine and has some shelf wear", so honestly when the pics looked fine to me I didn't put much further thought into it and bought the item. 

Smashed badly is much different from shelf wear though... Then when he said that was basically my problem, I accepted that and moved on to checking out the actual figure inside, which ended up having an issue too. 

[charity_scents]

"His claim that I altered the state of the item and the value by opening the box is absurd because he even admitted the box was already in bad shape when he sent it. "

I hope you used this in your claim also.  I look forward to hearing your resolution via paypal

[pooh333piglet]

You will get your money back. Relax.  Dont live in fear.  Trying to intercept a box at the post office. Impossible. Not allowed.  You did try to be nice about it, yes but seller has his rights too. It seemed like buyers remorse at 1st. You purchased knowing the box was not pristine and then it didnt fit your vision of it. You could of asked for more pics before buying. So not blaming but trying to explain sellers view.

So then you say you opened it and part is missing. It seems part of the game which unfortunately sellers have to deal with. It at times is not true. I have had things swapped out (only a few in 18 yrs) and took a return that was absolutely not as I sent. (Yes ebay did protect me.)  Seller may have had this happen before and so offers 50%. 

Now you return and all thats fine. Let the seller get the return and then follow up. Its not that big of a deal. You have multiple buyer protections. 

[myangelandmyprincess]

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@unicron9tj wrote:

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@soh.maryl wrote:

Perhaps I am incredibly naive or stupid or some level in between.

I have had to return only two items that I have purchased, one because the item did not match the description, and another because there was a discrepancy between the size in the title and the size in the description and I missed that fact.

But I have to ask:  Why would you not simply open an item not as described case?  

Was it an unusual circumstance for me that both sellers immediately apologized and sent a return label? 

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Because I was trying to work with the seller, trusting that ebay would have my back if he refused to do what was right. Instead of opening an item not as described case, I requested to return the item for a refund. No warning came up saying "IF YOU DO THIS THING, YE SHALL FORFEIT THE ABILITY TO LEAVE THIS SELLER FEEDBACK AND HE WILL BE ALLOWED TO ONLY REFUND YOU HALF OF WHAT YOU HATH PAID FORTH UNTO HIM!"

When he accepted my return request and said "Im only going to refund you half", I thought that was nuts and I was sure he couldn't actually get away with that.

Apparently a fairly new ebay policy started in 2018 that makes it so he CAN actually do that, and that's why I am posting here looking for advice. 

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I'm thinking you had opened an item not as described case it's the same process it just depends on what reason you choose that makes it not as described.  On a seller with free returns no matter the reason you choose the seller can deduct up to 50%.