Return Advise Needed

[bingmon88]

Hi 2 days ago an item I purchased that cost about $3000 (a violin bow) arrived damaged via FedEx. The package was not safely packed. It was packed with a sheet of bubble wrap and 2 pieces of brown paper in a long triangular box. It arrived snapped in 3 pieces and the box looked like someone crushed it in the middle. (Normally a violin bow is shipped in a hard PVC plumbing tube).

When I first opened it, I took pictures of the damage and sent them to the seller via the eBay app and waited a few minutes. Given the high cost of the item I decided to call the seller via the phone number on the shipping label. Which he answered. He said he will file a claim with FedEx. (He gave me a case number from FedEx too) Couple minutes later he told me FedEx would be coming over to take pictures which I told him he cannot do since I have my parents in the house and don't want them to get sick. Instead I offered to take the package to FedEx near my home which he agreed after he called back FedEx (I assume as he agreed after a while). When I was at FedEx the 2 person at the front told me FedEx doesn't "come back to home to take pictures" or "tell the person to come to the store for them to take pictures." When I told him what they told me, the seller told me he will contact me again the next day at 10AM Eastern time when he visit the FedEx. The next day he contact me at almost 11AM Eastern and told me FedEx called him last night.

After that I decided to call eBay customer service since I was started to get a weird feeling about this transaction. I was recommend by the rep to file a return request. The return was accepted but it took a 2-3 messages for the seller to send me a shipping label via eBay. AT first he seem to refuse.... When I got the shipping label I took everything to the post office. The post office scanned the label and told me I given the wrong label as he gave me a label for a small box item and I was forced to shell out $9.60. 

I gave the seller a copy of the receipt which also had the tracking label and requested he pay me back for it. He started to blame eBay and refuse to pay me back.

________________________

So here are my questions;

1) Will I be compensated for the shipping label? (Since hes refusing to do it)

2) Will I be responsible should the item suffer more damage? (He requested I repackage it and ship it back in the original FedEx box. I repackaged it back with all the original materials. He did not give me money to pack it back up more securely or safely. And I did not want to spend money on it)

3) Did I mess the seller over by sending it back? (When I opened the request, I told him to check with FedEx to see if I were to ship it back to him would it void his insurance claim with FedEx however, he just ignored all these concerns and reply to ship it back)

4) Was I being too aggressive or should I have waited a few weeks before sending it back to him? (I told him I was willing to work with him on the insurance claim process but I would need my refund since I would need to buy a similar item elsewhere.)

[simba6 · Accepted solution]

Returning it without the shipper's rep first inspecting it voided the shipping insurance. However, it was not packed to standard and the insurance claim would not have been paid anyway.  You might get the extra shipping you paid refunded. you have to explain that to ebay.

It's up to the seller to deal with the insurance, not the buyer.

You did the RIGHT thing in filing a case.

[bingmon88]

Thanks for the reply! I mentioned this to him twice on the eBay app and once over the phone regarding the claim. Regarding how it was packed, he told me FedEx packed it for him when he took the item to the shop. (I doubt this but it might be true. But by my experience shipping bows out they always asked me if I have a PVC tube protecting the bow. But I can only say this for the FedEx shops in California and Arizona and Washington)

Would the seller attempt to give me a partial refund or cause problems should the item arrive even more damaged? He never gave me money to pack it up more secure as I packed it back the way it came in. Just told me ship it back using the same box. 

[orangehound]

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@bingmon88 wrote:

So here are my questions;

1) Will I be compensated for the shipping label? (Since hes refusing to do it)

2) Will I be responsible should the item suffer more damage? (He requested I repackage it and ship it back in the original FedEx box. I repackaged it back with all the original materials. He did not give me money to pack it back up more securely or safely. And I did not want to spend money on it)

3) Did I mess the seller over by sending it back? (When I opened the request, I told him to check with FedEx to see if I were to ship it back to him would it void his insurance claim with FedEx however, he just ignored all these concerns and reply to ship it back)

4) Was I being too aggressive or should I have waited a few weeks before sending it back to him? (I told him I was willing to work with him on the insurance claim process but I would need my refund since I would need to buy a similar item elsewhere.)

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1) Since you paid for this, there is no leverage that you have to get reimbursed for it.

2) No.

3) No.  The seller is not experienced.  They probably did not have more than $100 coverage on the item, and FedEx would have rejected it due to poor packaging ... an item has to be packed properly in order for it to be covered for loss.

4) The seller was not handling your situation well.  Had you posted your return situation earlier in the process, I would have suggested that (a) you tell the seller that you will cooperate with whatever insurance claim he has, and (b) you will ship it back if that is what he wants at his expense ... but by all means file a return with eBay to get your money refunded.   If the label doesn't work, you contact eBay to tell them that the return label doesn't work and the buyer needs to accommodate a proper return shipping label.*

* You should have a "Priority Mail" return shipping label, but the buyer likely listed the item with a weight under 1 pound, and because of this you were issued the wrong "First Class" return shipping label.

[simba6]

If Fedex packed it, they have to take it up with them.  Could have been one of those in store setups.  I know some office supply places say they are Fedex drop off points.  Still for an item of that value, more packing was in order.

[bingmon88]

Thanks and lastly, if the seller or FedEx send me a claim paper to sign. Should I sign it? I don't have the item in my procession anymore, so I wouldn't know what else the seller may have told FedEx once he gets the package back. The last thing I would want is to sign something and get in trouble. 

I really hope the seller manages to get some sort of money back from the shipping insurance its a lot of money. But he's behaving rather interestedly! 

[lamber9347]

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@bingmon88 wrote:

Thanks and lastly, if the seller or FedEx send me a claim paper to sign. Should I sign it? I don't have the item in my procession anymore, so I wouldn't know what else the seller may have told FedEx once he gets the package back. The last thing I would want is to sign something and get in trouble. 

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You are obviously a very conscientious person and I congratulate you on going the extra mile on this return for the seller. However you have already done more than you were expected to do or asked to do. 

When a person decides to sell anything online they are bound by the TOS of the platform they are choosing to sell on. This seller sounds inexperienced but you would know better just by looking at their feedback. The insurance claims are to be handled by the seller and the buyer has no obligation on that. Any money refunded due to an insurance claim would only go to the seller anyways. You have done more than your part already. It's time for you to move along from this, once you receive your full refund. 

Just keep all messages to date and do not contact the seller via phone again. Should you not receive your entire refund for purchase then immediately contact eBay and get this resolved quickly in your favor. Unsure if you will be reimbursed for the additional postage you had to pay but you should pursue this with eBay. Leave this seller alone from now on. Either they are naive and don't know what to do or they are playing you to their advantage. Please stop communicating with them as they have not been level with you from the onset. Best of luck to you.... 

[ja-2149]

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@bingmon88 wrote:

an item I purchased that cost about $3000 (a violin bow) arrived damaged via FedEx.

When I got the shipping label I took everything to the post office. The post office scanned the label and told me I given the wrong label as he gave me a label for a small box item and I was forced to shell out $9.60. 

I gave the seller a copy of the receipt which also had the tracking label and requested he pay me back for it. He started to blame eBay and refuse to pay me back.

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One more wrinkle, sorry. Scanning for the word "sign" finds only that word in this thread. It's important because any return $750 or over requires Signature Confirmation at delivery.

Hopefully, your out-of-pocket $9.60 included payment for/was in addition to the Signature Confirmation on the small box label? Otherwise, you won't get a refund, just on that technicality.

[bingmon88]

The item isn't worth anything anymore. It was snapped into 3 pieces. It lost all its value. I really doubt any instrument appraisers would write an appraisal for $3000 for this item after the damage. (maybe once repaired but maybe for hundred or so dollars). Not to mention it was already restored with a repaired head which made it lose most its value to $3000. So I don't think the post office would insure it and I wouldn't have any documents to back up the value if the package is lost. Since the item is worthless now.

If I don't get my refund, I'll probably have to file a claim with my bank. The original label provided also didn't have sign upon delivery or anything with it.

[ja-2149]

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@bingmon88 wrote:

The item isn't worth anything anymore. It was snapped into 3 pieces. It lost all its value.

If I don't get my refund, I'll probably have to file a claim with my bank. The original label provided also didn't have sign upon delivery or anything with it.

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It's possible your seller knows the policy, and deliberately issued a return label without Signature Confirmation to further set you up for a total loss. Signature confirmation on a refund for $750 or more is an eBay requirement:

When a buyer wants to return an item or the item doesn't match the listing

Tracking is required to confirm the item has been returned to the seller. Signature confirmation is required for items returned with a total cost of $750 or more.

Also, please note you're not looking for a refund of its current value. Yes, if eBay sides with the seller on signature confirmation, get your refund instead via your bank using the reason Goods returned, credit not received. Your seller will lose eBay and PayPal fees, earn a nasty defect, and pay a chargeback settlement fine.

[bingmon88]

Thanks! I hope the seller is honest and forthcoming. I like to think everyone on a positive note!

Thanks your your help!

[debbe4ever]

As far as ebay is concerned the sig confirmation for over $750 applies only to the seller, not the buyer, unless they've changed that every recently, in which case it's curious indeed that ebay supplied return labels don't ever have sig confirmation or insurance required.

[ja-2149]

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@debbe4ever wrote:

As far as ebay is concerned the sig confirmation for over $750 applies only to the seller, not the buyer

it's curious indeed that ebay supplied return labels don't ever have sig confirmation or insurance required.

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Perhaps re-read the policy again for the first time:

When a buyer wants to return an item or the item doesn't match the listing

Tracking is required to confirm the item has been returned to the seller. Signature confirmation is required for items returned with a total cost of $750 or more.

Also, eBay-supplied Return Service labels do ever have Signature Confirmation:

Please review the policy for the answers to the other questions.

[lja440]

I find it odd that they would pack it in such a way. I mean I know nothing about bows but the musicians in the family take care with their instraments. As a person not familiar with them I looked and the highest priced one I found was $465 new.  I'm not doubting that there are some that expensive but that someone that didn't know how to pack one would have one to sell. If it were me I would have no idea of the value and would list it for a heck of a lot less.

Which had my mind wondering if it were damaged in shipping or before it was shipped and packed in a way that they hoped would mask the damage and claim the insurance. Not everyone knows that insurance can be denied due to poor packing.

[bingmon88]

You'll be amazed how much a bow can go up too! Theres some that will just keep going up in value!

To be honest I was really shocked on how the bow arrived. Especially, after the seller claims it was packed by FedEx. But base on my experience with FedEx they would never pack it like that. I always thought it was common knowledge to pack in a PVC Tube prior to putting it in the box. And theres lots of videos and articles showing how to prep a bow for shipping.

So I really hope this works out for both him and me. 

Thanks for your thoughts!