eBay

lw81556 · ‎04-04-2017

Item WAS NOT really received, but tracking appears to say it was delivered. I have had this happen twice in the past 6 months and got to the bottom of it with the postmaster and eBay refunded me. I have another one now and I believe I just figured out whats going on. I believe a new scam is brewing and this is how it works. Seller sets up a new account and sells a few orders of something valuable like silver coins at a low price, say $135 for a roll of quarters. You buy it and pay for it. They do not use an Ebay mailing label but mails via their own label via USPS priority mail. The kicker is they mail it to an address in your town but not to you. Tracking only says it was delivered to a mailbox in you town. Ebay assumes it arrived at your address when it did not because it says "DELIVERED IN/AT MAILBOX Mar-16-17, 11:16 AM, Your Town, 55961" but it does not confirm it arrived at your mailbox. It is extramely hard to find out what address it was actually sent to. Unless you can get that info... you lose. The new seller has no history, if all the new buyers leave negative feedback he doesn't care. I have had photos from the postmaster of packages sent to others in my town with my tracking number on it.

This is my opinion about the matter. It was confirmed twice by USPS, so I think there is something to it. Try to fing out from USPS were it was addressed to. Any Ideas?

chrysylys · ‎04-06-2017

theheadphonecompany: "Buying one thing (the silver dollars vs quarters) is an SNAD issue NOT INR - 2 totally DIFFERENT things. How would the OP know what was in the item if they NEVER GOT IT (their words)?"

lw81556 : "Seller sets up a new account and sells a few orders of something valuable like silver coins at a low price, say $135 for a roll of quarters. "

There is nothing in that statement to indicate the buyer/OP received anything to determine if it contained silver dollars or quarters.

Forget keeping up with the Joneses. Be the Finklegrubers!
OK kids, time to get the Dodge loaded up again. I hear 'Poppy's By the Tree' calling. This trip might be a long one too.

a_c_green · ‎04-06-2017

@Anonymous wrote:
The OP was very specifically talking about a concern with a seller committing fraud. No conclusions jumped to, just replying to their exact situation:

" The kicker is they mail it to an address in your town but not to you."

This is an indicator of a situation where a seller attempted to commit fraud. We have run into this exact situation before and are able to investigate.

A couple of points worth highlighting here:

USPS tracking now logs the GPS coordinates where the Delivered scan occurred. It should be possible for your local post office to determine whether the Delivered scan occurred at your place or somewhere else. (I'm betting on Somewhere Else, such as a business address that would accept mail without necessarily noticing the name on the label.)
If you have a free MyUSPS account from usps.com, you can get automatic inbound tracking of packages heading to your address (as someone has already mentioned), even if you don't know the tracking number of your package. The USPS system reads the package address and looks to see if any MyUSPS accountholders are at that address. It would be of circumstantial interest if the eBay purchase supposedly coming to you did not trigger alerts to you from MyUSPS, indicating that the package may not have actually been addressed to you.

Anonymous · ‎04-06-2017

@hafoster wrote:

@dave81556 wrote:

Abay Staffer, l did call customer support today 4/5/17. They said to file an "Item Not Received Complaint" a claim.

@Anonymous, did eBay Customer Support direct OP to start an INR request even though tracking shows "Delivered" already?

I can't say what may have been discussed with another member on a phone call, but can confirm we would typically investigate this concern through an item not received claim. Though tracking confirms delivery to the correct city, if the buyer is stating this was delivered to another address other than theirs then we would just need to get confirmation of this from the courier to protect the buyer and take appropriate action with the seller. With USPS specifically, the courier would not provide us with more details than what is visible in the tracking. They would be able to give this to the recipient of the package, however, and we can take action from there once we can review the documentation.

chrysylys · ‎04-06-2017

Also, in some areas, USPS is keeping photos of package labels so that may be a way to verify how the item was addressed.

Forget keeping up with the Joneses. Be the Finklegrubers!
OK kids, time to get the Dodge loaded up again. I hear 'Poppy's By the Tree' calling. This trip might be a long one too.

a_c_green · ‎04-06-2017

@chrysylys wrote:
Also, in some areas, USPS is keeping photos of package labels so that may be a way to verify how the item was addressed.

Well, their new Informed Delivery service will let you view grayscale images of your inbound mail, but again, that's only mail coming to your address. I doubt they're going to show you anything that's going somewhere else. From what I've read in a blurb that the USPS sent out in email on March 29th, they're identifying "your" mail as that which has your address on it; they're not identifying it by tracking number. In fact, from what they're saying in their email, they seem to be specifically excluding trackable packages from this service; it will be for "letter-sized mailpieces" only:

"Excludes Priority Mail Express® and Priority Mail® items, flats (large envelopes), and parcels. Mailpiece must come from a facility with scanning technology. Not all scanned mail will be delivered on the same day you receive the email with the image of the mailpiece."

On the other hand, if they're scanning images of packages in a similar manner, a postal inspector might be able to have a peek at a package with a tracking number that you specify, in order to see where it was addressed (i.e. your place or somewhere else).

hafoster · ‎04-06-2017

@Anonymous wrote:
@hafoster wrote:
@dave81556 wrote:

Abay Staffer, l did call customer support today 4/5/17. They said to file an "Item Not Received Complaint" a claim.
@Anonymous, did eBay Customer Support direct OP to start an INR request even though tracking shows "Delivered" already?
I can't say what may have been discussed with another member on a phone call, but can confirm we would typically investigate this concern through an item not received claim. Though tracking confirms delivery to the correct city, if the buyer is stating this was delivered to another address other than theirs then we would just need to get confirmation of this from the courier to protect the buyer and take appropriate action with the seller. With USPS specifically, the courier would not provide us with more details than what is visible in the tracking. They would be able to give this to the recipient of the package, however, and we can take action from there once we can review the documentation.

@Anonymous, please can you review the process?

1. The buyer starts an INR inquiry, requesting a refund:

If you don't hear back from the seller after 4 business days or can't resolve the problem, ask us to step in and help. We want to make things right for you.

2. The seller immediately uploads the "Delivered" tracking, then calls eBay to close the case in favor of the seller. Funds, if held, are permanently released back to the seller.

3. Any relief now comes directly from eBay, not the seller, after the buyer gets the proof you need.

Anonymous · ‎04-06-2017

@hafoster wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@hafoster wrote:

@dave81556 wrote:

Abay Staffer, l did call customer support today 4/5/17. They said to file an "Item Not Received Complaint" a claim.

@Anonymous, did eBay Customer Support direct OP to start an INR request even though tracking shows "Delivered" already?

I can't say what may have been discussed with another member on a phone call, but can confirm we would typically investigate this concern through an item not received claim. Though tracking confirms delivery to the correct city, if the buyer is stating this was delivered to another address other than theirs then we would just need to get confirmation of this from the courier to protect the buyer and take appropriate action with the seller. With USPS specifically, the courier would not provide us with more details than what is visible in the tracking. They would be able to give this to the recipient of the package, however, and we can take action from there once we can review the documentation.

@Anonymous, please can you review the process?

1. The buyer starts an INR inquiry, requesting a refund:

If you don't hear back from the seller after 4 business days or can't resolve the problem, ask us to step in and help. We want to make things right for you.

2. The seller immediately uploads the "Delivered" tracking, then calls eBay to close the case in favor of the seller. Funds, if held, are permanently released back to the seller.

3. Any relief now comes directly from eBay, not the seller, after the buyer gets the proof you need.

If the buyer opened a case and stated that this item was delivered to another address in their city as this buyer describes, we would not immediately close the case for the seller despite the tracking information. We would request proof of where the item was shipped. If for some reason this was not investigated properly by eBay, we would be able to appeal for the buyer and give them compensation as needed.

While we have run into this situation before in the past, we do have a lot of experience to draw from considering the number of sales that occur on eBay. I have to stress that, overall, this kind of fraudulent behavior is rare and we take action to prevent repeated offenses. We are always working towards improving the security of the site and, in situations like this (where we make a decision with the tracking info but possibly discover later it was representative of fraudulent behavior) we will take a loss to ensure a buyer is not negatively impacted.

vintagecraze50 · ‎04-06-2017

This does not seem to be a very well thought out scam if it is a scam. First. The seller is suppose to ship only to the Pay Pal confirmed address in order to get ANY protection from an INR claim. If the package was not delivered to the confirmed address what chance in Hades does this seller have to fight a case? I believe that it is a slam dunk in the buyers favor if something like this happens. If it were not, then every crook would be sending out garbage to another address. USPS has the ability to use GPS to find out where this package has ended up, and if it is not delivered to the right address, seller will loose the INR claim. Correct?

lintbrush* · ‎04-06-2017

@vintagecraze50

There are other ways to mail a package than eBay or PayPal labels associated with the transaction.

I can buy a PayPal label outside of a transaction. I can buy a label at the counter. I can buy a label through ClickNShip. All I need to do is upload the tracking number to eBay.

notjustcollectibles · ‎04-06-2017

And UPS does the same. I had it happen to me. Something I ordered never arrived at my address. Tracking said it was delivered.
I checked the tracking #, it was delivered to side door, mytown. No street address or number, just side door mytown.
Of course the item was never recovered from UPS.

glyph01 · ‎04-06-2017

Well, eventually, the scammer may be found out, but not always. Depends on any number of factors. Usually, the seller gives tracking number to same city, state zip and that's it. If the seller forgo buying postage via PayPal or eBay and buys it at USPS.com or at the counter, then who's to know unless the buyer checks the address on the label with the PO? When you have bots handling PP disputes, it might be too late by the time a human reviews the case and PayPal have to compensate out of pocket or even refuse to appeal if a lot of money at stake. And it is not always an easy feat to get PayPal convinced a scam is going on.

a_c_green · ‎04-06-2017

@vintagecraze50 wrote:
This does not seem to be a very well thought out scam if it is a scam. First. The seller is suppose to ship only to the Pay Pal confirmed address in order to get ANY protection from an INR claim. If the package was not delivered to the confirmed address what chance in Hades does this seller have to fight a case?

Tracking only indicates Delivery within the buyer's City and ZIP code. It does not show what address within that City/ZIP was used. Thus a scam seller can ship a trinket or empty box to a different street address (e.g. a fast-food restaurant) within the buyer's City & ZIP, and the buyer will be unable to win an INR claim because the on-line tracking 'proves" it was delivered. (They simply print the label as usual, then stick a different address on to accompany the tracking barcode.)

@vintagecraze50 wrote:
I believe that it is a slam dunk in the buyers favor if something like this happens.

Unfortunately not, because all the tracking shows is that it was delivered somewhere within his City/ZIP. The street address used is not available.

@vintagecraze50 wrote:
USPS has the ability to use GPS to find out where this package has ended up, and if it is not delivered to the right address, seller will loose the INR claim. Correct?

Yes, the newer USPS scanners now log GPS coordinates of where the Delivered scan occurred, but that info is not available on-line, so it's still an uphill fight for the buyer. (It's also possible with this scam that some buyers don't even realize that they've been scammed, thinking that their package really did arrive, but was then stolen off the porch.)

vintagecraze50 · ‎04-07-2017

I see what you mean. If this were to become a popular scam then something needs to be done on Ebay's part to ensure that the label that gets sent out originates from the pay pal confirmed address. Any thoughts Triton?

theheadphonecompany · ‎04-07-2017

@TRINTON

I appriciate your responce - but my tone was not agressive or abusive in ANY manner.

The point I was making was how "jonny on the spot" eBay is to (without details) blame the seller. That is sadly the way things happen here - and its out of touch, out of date, and bad business.

I wasnt blaming the buyer here. I dont know him/her, I wasnt accusing him of being a liar in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.

You (as an eBay employee) know full well how this all works. It was an eBay corporate decision to accept Delivery Confirmation as enough proof of delivery in almost all transactions (except high dollar sales or rare valued items).

Under normal situations THAT "should be it". eBay decided to gamble with its insurance company that the post office indeed does its job - aka deliver things to their correct addresses.

USPS has NO WAY to know that they are being used in a scam (if it is one). All they do is deliver to the address on the package.

It seems from eBays behavior and the resonces here, that its "only a big deal" when a buyer gets ripped off BUT NOT THE SELLER.

Call an eBay CS rep or flag one down here and tell them you were a SELLER who got ripped off and you get "taking losses is part of business, here take one". "We dont know what you were sent nor what you received ... too bad".

Funny how I didnt hear you say that to the OP. Nope, you hgave him SPECIAL instructions on how eBay was going to handle things FOR HIM.

Can you KINDLY state that (or explain) why sellers can be taken advantage of but not buyers? Can eBay explain why they have a page in the help section that describes "conditions for an items return" but then ignores it?

I dont want ANY one to get ripped off - not even eBay NOR Paypal. BUT if eBay has made a corporate decision to accept DC and NOT SC (and Amazon does force this on some sellers) then THEY need to deal with the fall out (as the OP described) and not jump to conclusions.

Id love a responce if you please 🙂

Anonymous · ‎04-07-2017

@theheadphonecompany wrote:

@TRINTON

I appriciate your responce - but my tone was not agressive or abusive in ANY manner.

The point I was making was how "jonny on the spot" eBay is to (without details) blame the seller. That is sadly the way things happen here - and its out of touch, out of date, and bad business.

I wasnt blaming the buyer here. I dont know him/her, I wasnt accusing him of being a liar in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.

You (as an eBay employee) know full well how this all works. It was an eBay corporate decision to accept Delivery Confirmation as enough proof of delivery in almost all transactions (except high dollar sales or rare valued items).

Under normal situations THAT "should be it". eBay decided to gamble with its insurance company that the post office indeed does its job - aka deliver things to their correct addresses.

USPS has NO WAY to know that they are being used in a scam (if it is one). All they do is deliver to the address on the package.

It seems from eBays behavior and the resonces here, that its "only a big deal" when a buyer gets ripped off BUT NOT THE SELLER.

Call an eBay CS rep or flag one down here and tell them you were a SELLER who got ripped off and you get "taking losses is part of business, here take one". "We dont know what you were sent nor what you received ... too bad".

Funny how I didnt hear you say that to the OP. Nope, you hgave him SPECIAL instructions on how eBay was going to handle things FOR HIM.

Can you KINDLY state that (or explain) why sellers can be taken advantage of but not buyers? Can eBay explain why they have a page in the help section that describes "conditions for an items return" but then ignores it?

I dont want ANY one to get ripped off - not even eBay NOR Paypal. BUT if eBay has made a corporate decision to accept DC and NOT SC (and Amazon does force this on some sellers) then THEY need to deal with the fall out (as the OP described) and not jump to conclusions.

Id love a responce if you please 🙂

The OP is very clearly describing a situation where they ordered an item, but instead of the seller shipping to the address provided in order details, they fraudulently shipped to another address in their city to try and make it appear as if the item was delivered correctly (since tracking only shows the city and zip, not the full address). We are not jumping to conclusions to say the best course of action is to get evidence of this and provide it to customer service, as that would be proof of fraud on the seller's part. We just need documentation from USPS of the address this was shipped to, not a confirmation from them that this was fraudulent. They of course wouldn't know the address that was supposed to be used, but we as eBay would know this and be able to protect the buyer as well as use this information to confirm fraudulent intent on the seller's part.

I won't be able to address your other questions as they are not related to the topic in this thread, but if you have concerns that you would like addressed I can also recommend that you reach out to customer service or begin a new thread on the Community Discussion Boards for your peers to review with you.