Foreign buyers using a Freight Forwarder.

[sgtyuri]

I have had it with foreign buyers buying laptops and having them shipped to a forwarder in DE.  It never fails that a week later they will demand a refund for made up lies. The usual lie is the hard drive is not an SSD, its HDD or the DVD doesnt work etc.. and they want 50.00 for the difference. I tell them I know it had an SSD hard drive when it was shipped and we do not pay refunds. Please return it. Now they say they are in a foreign country, and they cant return because its too expensive.  Then they badger me for a refund. I know whats next if I deny it. How do I keep from getting a Negative?  Also, it seems like the last time I gave a refund I was marked and I had a bunch of these crop up. Im at my wits end.

[green-night]

Just ignore them. 

They can't win an NAD claim without returning it so they will lose the claim if they open one and any feedback will be removed.   Plus the eBay MBG is void after the item is forwarded anyways. 

[glgenterprise]

The only way that comes to mind, and it not foolproof, would be to make your settings require the buyer to have a US based PayPal account. This would at least weed out the foreign buyers who use a forwarder but don't have a US based PayPal account.

As far as the returns go - if they are using a forwarder they void the MBG. If you have your listings set for no returns, then they can only open a NAD claim, and you should be able to call in and get the claim denied based on them using a forwarding service.

[mam98031]

International buyers that have items shipped to a US address and then forwarded to them at some other address [whether domestic of international] void their buyer protection under the MBG.

Not covered

• Buyer remorse or any reason other than not receiving an item or receiving an item that isn’t as described in the listing (see the seller’s return policy for return options)
• Items damaged during local pickup
• Local pickup items that were not collected by, or on behalf of, the buyer
• Items not delivered, damaged during collection, or damaged during shipment when the buyer arranges pick-up or shipping of the item (for instance, the buyer arranges freight)
• Duplicate claims through other resolution methods
• Items shipped to another address after original delivery
• Vehicles (see eBay Vehicle Protection), Real Estate, Websites & Business for Sale, Classified Ads, services, Digital Content, Intangible Goods, and some Business Equipment categories (see eBay Business Equipment Purchase Protection)
• Items sold through Sotheby's

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

[sgtyuri]

((Buyer remorse or any reason other than not receiving an item or receiving an item that isn’t as described in the listing (see the seller’s return policy for return options))
So what about the lies saying that the DVD doesn't work or the Hard drive is not as described? Would that not constitute a "not as described" issue? What is my recourse then? I tell them to return it, but they say to refund them instead because its too expensive. If I dont I know they will leave a negative. Whats my recourse in this situation?

[dtexley3]

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@sgtyuri wrote:
((Buyer remorse or any reason other than not receiving an item or receiving an item that isn’t as described in the listing (see the seller’s return policy for return options))
So what about the lies saying that the DVD doesn't work or the Hard drive is not as described? Would that not constitute a "not as described" issue? What is my recourse then? I tell them to return it, but they say to refund them instead because its too expensive. If I dont I know they will leave a negative. Whats my recourse in this situation?

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The buyer may leave negative feedback but don't cave to partial refunds.  A simple professional reply of "Offered full Refund upon return of item, buyer declined" shows that you offered to accept it back and the buyer choose to keep it anyway.  Most buyers will see a polite professional response to a negative and ignore the neg.

[no_zero369]

If you are 100% certain they have used a freight forwarder, then just tell them "return for a refund" or just ignore them.  The MBG is voided as other posters have demonstrated. THEY have zero recourse in a SNAD situation or case.

However, what outcome your get is going to depend on how you conduct yourself, what you say, how you say it, IF you wish to be successful!  So here are the steps I would follow if I were you:

1.  Don't getting too worked up by this!  You found some scammers, don't take it personal.  The way you handle things, in a cool and collected manner is going to be everything.  Allow these people to get you emotional or Yank your chain to the point of " I just want it all to go away" then they will win and beat you!

2.  Anytime you get one of these emails that you suspect went to a freight forwarder - you want to respond to them politely and simply - "Sorry you are having an issue with the PC, please return it for a full refund!"  Period, that is it!  Make certain ALL of this correspondence is through the eBay mail system

3.  What you are trying to do with #2 above is to get the buyer to say that they are in  a foreign country and not at the address your shipped to and it is too expensive to return it!  Once they confirm that they are NOT at the address you shipped to you WIN!  They have made the admission of reshipment that voids the MBG.

4.  Once you have that statement, then you IGNORE any an all emails by the buyer.   Hopefully the buyer will also threaten to leave negative feedback in trying to get you to respond.  DON'T DO IT!   Say nothing.  IF a buyer offers positive or not leaving negative feedback for a discount or money, THAT is a violation of eBay policy and you can use that email as proof to have the negative feedback removed.

5.  And this is KEY!!!!  Make sure ALL of the correspondence with the buyer is through eBay email!  If they send you a private email, copy that and paste it into an email window in the eBay system and send your reply through the eBay mail system.   But also MAKE CERTAIN you save ALL of the emails from this buyer on eBay.  You may need to hold them for 6-months if a PayPal case gets filed.

6. Add the buyer to your "Blocked Buyers List.  Also once any case has been resolved or 30-days past the delivery date, use the "Report Buyer" function to upload emails where the buyer admits to being in a foreign country, threatens negative feedback, etc.

7.  Sit back and wait.

8.  IF The buyer files a SNAD with eBay, immediately contact eBay Customer Service, ask them to review the emails (you might have to point them to the date & time) where the buyer states he is out of the country and thus had the item forwarded.  Ask eBAy to close the case in your favor because the MBG is void when an item is is rehipped

9.  You may need to rinse and repeat with PP, but usually these scammers are looking for quick & easy scores, not ones that take too much work.

10.  BE smart about all of this - cool, calm & collected.  The ONE "tool" a scammer has is being able to get a seller all upset, sick to their stomach, can't sleep, etc.  They only way they can win is if they get you so emotional that you just cave in to their demands.   Your choice how you wish to run your business.   But IF you have caved in in the past, then it is possible your have a "reputation" for caving in or as a "mark" and that is why you keep seeing this problem.  Once you plant a flag against these scammers, they will go find someone else to bully/scam.

IF you have any doubts, concerns, etc, then come back to the boards and ASK! before acting on your own.

Good Luck!

[mam98031]

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@sgtyuri wrote:
((Buyer remorse or any reason other than not receiving an item or receiving an item that isn’t as described in the listing (see the seller’s return policy for return options))
So what about the lies saying that the DVD doesn't work or the Hard drive is not as described? Would that not constitute a "not as described" issue? What is my recourse then? I tell them to return it, but they say to refund them instead because its too expensive. If I dont I know they will leave a negative. Whats my recourse in this situation?

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Voiding the MBG is voiding the MBG.  If as stated in my previous post the item is shipped from the freight forwarder, even it it was across the street, voids the MBG.  So it wouldn't matter what reason the buyer would state.  If you can show it would be coming back from an address in which you did not ship from, you do not have to take the return.

Let's say you have a seller from the UK that purchased an item from you and had it shipped to NY.  From NY it got shipped to them in the UK.  The buyer has an issue and wants to return the item.  They file a claim.  In this lovely auto return system Ebay has, lets say the claim gets auto approved and Ebay issues a return label the buyer can print from the claim.

That return label will do the buyer no good as it would be a label from NY [their reshipper] to you in whatever state you are in.  So the buyer can't use the label, they would have to ask for another or ship it back on their own.  

Anyway, there are flags.  You call Ebay and get the claim closed.

[mam98031]

It doesn't have to be an actual company that many call a Freight Forwarder.  

Sellers are responsible to ship to the address on the purchase record of the item.  PERIOD.  The responsibility for shipping damage stops at that address.  If that address is a Freight Forwarder, friend, work place, hotel, family member or whatever.  If the item gets shipped or takes a little trip to a different address whether domestic or international, the seller does not have to take the return.  Ebay does not hold seller responsible for the actions of another on how they repackage the item for reshipment.  Ebay also doesn't hold a seller responsible to pay return shipping from an address in which they did NOT ship to.