eBay

tinabear2012 · ‎01-03-2016

I got bit by a counterfeit copy of the software Adobe Acrobat XI Pro. Then I discovered there is a 'crew' of at least 5 criminals selling the same counterfeit software. But the INSANE part was Ebay's response.

I made several attempts to report this fraudulent scheme to eBay customer service. Multiple Ebay reps took NO interest beyond advising me to return the COUNTERFEIT software and file a Buyer Protection Claim.

HERE IS WHAT HAPPENED!

New versions of Acrobat Pro cost over $400 from Adobe. I decided to save money by buying the previous version released in 2012. So, of course, I looked on eBay to find an unused Acrobat XI Pro.

I found several sellers offering Acrobat XI Pro for BUY NOW. All those Sellers claimed their Acrobat copies were unused inside a 'factory-sealed' retail box wrapped in original cellophane. I bought one for $97.

When Acrobat arrived, it did appear to be inside a genuine Adobe box -- and it was wrapped in cellophane.

After Acrobat was installed on my PC, I inputted its serial number which came inside the box. The software issued an Error Message stating "INVALID SERIAL NUMBER. Call Adobe Support."

I called Adobe Customer Service. They asked for the Serial Number. I was told that it was not only invalid but also counterfeit.

RAMPANT CRIMINAL SCHEME

I did an Ebay search for "Adobe Acrobat XI Pro", which produced this page:

If you visit the Acrobat listings, you will note 6 or 7 'unused' copies for sale between $89 and $99. They -- the different selers -- post a generic 'stock' image of the software's box. Several use the same stock image. Each listing is nearly an identical 'clone' of the others.

None of the Sellers use a real profile photo. ALL SELLERS HAVE LOW FEEDBACK between 6 and 30 (though one has Feedback 138). None use a profile photo.

If you closely examine the Feedback of those Sellers, then the alarms go off. Two have negative feedbacks from buyers stating 'pirated software'. But the others have 'buyer' generated Feedback. (That is, positive feedback received from buying very low-priced items. No real Seller feedback.)

I bet my $100 against your $1 that all those BUY NOW Acrobats between $89 and $99 are counterfeits.

EBAY'S INSANE RESPONSE

I called Ebay customer service to file a Buyer Protection claim and report the criminal scheme. What a joke!

The Ebay rep asked me to state a reason for my claim. I said 'stolen goods'. The rep said that 'stolen goods' was not a reason recognized by Ebay. He suggested 'not as described'. Hoo-Kay! Then the rep told me that part of the process would involve returning the counterfeit software to the Seller before I could get a refund.

DID YOU CATCH THAT, Folks? Ebay's response was to instruct me to RETURN THE COUNTERFEIT SOFTWARE TO THE CRIMINAL SELLERS! I know Ebay kisses the butts of Sellers...but PROTECTING CRIMINAL SELLERS is beyond belief.

I demanded to speak to a Ebay manager. Ha, ha! I got bounced around the various Ebay global call centers...and never found anybody at Ebay who thought shipping back counterfeit goods was a crazy idea. NOR COULD I FIND ANY EBAY EMPLOYEE WHO CARED TO INVESTIGATE THE ONGOING CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE OF SELLING COUNTERFEIT GOODS.

CONGRATULATIONS, Ebay for becoming a Fence for Counterfeit Products!

hafoster · ‎01-03-2016

If you need to return an item, be sure to follow these item condition guidelines.

Policy overview

You must return an item in the same condition as it was received, not used or altered in any way. You must also include, in the same condition as it was received:

All original packaging such as boxes, bags, tags, and UPCs
Accessories such as cords and remote controls
Certificates, manuals, warranty, and rebate cards
"Free gifts" or bonus items
All items included in a bundle

Make sure you follow these guidelines. If you don't, you may be subject to a range of actions, including limits of your buying and selling privileges and suspension of your account.

tinabear2012 · ‎01-03-2016

Thank you for explaining how to return COUNTERFEIT items.

Do you suppose the Return Policy applies to STOLEN items too?

Wow, I never imagined I'd become Ebay's conspirator in protecting criminal sellers.

yuzuha · ‎01-03-2016

eBay requires a return for refund because if they did not, scammers could claim that an item was damaged/counterfeit/not as described to get a refund and then end up keeping the item as well. eBay has neither the ability nor the authority to determine whether an item is in fact counterfeit-- that falls to the rights holders, and under the VERO policy, many of them do police eBay listings for fakes. There are posts on these boards all the time about people having items taken down because the rights holders reported them to eBay as being counterfeit. eBay cannot simply take the word of a buyer or seller about counterfeit items because sellers would be reporting competitors left and right if they did. They rely on the companies themselves to determine the legitimacy of items, as they should.

hafoster · ‎01-03-2016

@tinabear2012 wrote:

Thank you for explaining how to return COUNTERFEIT items.

tinabear2012 · ‎01-03-2016

yuzuha - Uh-h. counterfeit software is called 'software piracy'...which is a Federal crime.

Additionally, I bet KNOWINGLY shipping (aka returning) stolen or counterfeit goods across state lines is probably a Federal crime too.

I doubt telling the Feds that ebay told me to do it is much of a defense.

EBAY HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO EASILY VERIFY THE SOFTWARE IS COUNTERFEIT

I can do 3-way calls on my cell phone. I had an Adobe manager on the line when I spoke to the first eBay rep. The Adobe manager verbally confirmed the serial number was counterfeit. He even offered to provide eBay with proof...as well as offered the phone number of their security department. The ebay rep politely blew off the Adobe manager.

tinabear2012 · ‎01-03-2016

Folks, I think you all missed my two points.

1. Counterfeit or Stolen Items are NOT merely 'defective' or 'not as described' -- IT IS A FEDERAL CRIME (when shipped across state lines)!

2. At least 5 Sellers are currently running BUY NOWs on copies of the SAME Counterfeit software.

Ebay apparently does not care enough to even investigate. That amounts to 'aiding and abetting' a crime.

Not to mention it allows other eBay Buyers to get burnt by this CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE operating on the eBay marketplace.

You all really don't see something seriously wrong about all this?

yuzuha · ‎01-03-2016

@tinabear2012 wrote:
yuzuha - Uh-h. counterfeit software is called 'software piracy'...which is a Federal crime.

Additionally, I bet KNOWINGLY shipping (aka returning) stolen or counterfeit goods across state lines is probably a Federal crime too.

I doubt telling the Feds that ebay told me to do it is much of a defense.

EBAY HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO EASILY VERIFY THE SOFTWARE IS COUNTERFEIT
I can do 3-way calls on my cell phone. I had an Adobe manager on the line when I spoke to the first eBay rep. The Adobe manager verbally confirmed the serial number was counterfeit. He even offered to provide eBay with proof...as well as offered the phone number of their security department. The ebay rep politely blew off the Adobe manager.

Adobe has the ability to get listings of pirated software taken down should they so choose. In fact, looking at the VeRO members page, Adobe is one of the participating members, meaning that they can get the listings pulled if THEY report them to eBay. But it is in the VeRO policy itself: "Before a listing is removed, the rights owner must give us information that ensures that the person reporting the item is authorized to do so." It is entirely within Adobe's means to get the listings taken down if they go through the proper channels. As I said, there are posts here all the time from people who had their listings pulled because a VeRO participant identified them (rightfully or not) as fake, so eBay can and will take action-- IF it is reported to them by the rights owner.

badgers_36 · ‎01-03-2016

Terms from ebay's "User Agreement"...

"While we may provide pricing, shipping, listing, and other guidance in our Services, such guidance is solely informational and you may decide to follow it or not. Also, while we may help facilitate the resolution of disputes through various programs, eBay has no control over and does not guarantee the existence, quality, safety or legality of items advertised; the truth or accuracy of users' content or listings; the ability of sellers to sell items; the ability of buyers to pay for items; or that a buyer or seller will actually complete a transaction or return an item."

The Adobe manager you spoke with would be the person who may suggest to Adobe management to file VERO reports against those ebay listings/sellers to stop the attempted sale of illegal/fake items if his management position isn't "high eough" to do so on his own.

"They don't keep me here 'cause I'm GORGEOUS, they keep me here 'cause I'm SMART"...Judge Judy

apache.falls · ‎01-04-2016

@tinabear2012 wrote:
Thank you for explaining how to return COUNTERFEIT items.

Do you suppose the Return Policy applies to STOLEN items too?

Wow, I never imagined I'd become Ebay's conspirator in protecting criminal sellers.

make a report with law enforcement, give them the item for evidence

BUT

If You Want A Refund

You Will Have To Open A Case With Ebay

And Send Item Back

With Online Viewable Tracking

To Receive Your Refund

║█║▌║█║▌│║▌║▌█║ ║█║▌║█║▌│║▌║▌█║ ║█║▌║█║▌│║▌║▌█║

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please

a_c_green · ‎01-04-2016

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that software won't even install (or run) with a counterfeit serial number; is that correct?

arun7500 · ‎01-04-2016

@tinabear2012 wrote:

I got bit by a counterfeit copy of the software Adobe Acrobat XI Pro. Then I discovered there is a 'crew' of at least 5 criminals selling the same counterfeit software. But the INSANE part was Ebay's response.

I made several attempts to report this fraudulent scheme to eBay customer service. Multiple Ebay reps took NO interest beyond advising me to return the COUNTERFEIT software and file a Buyer Protection Claim.

HERE IS WHAT HAPPENED!

New versions of Acrobat Pro cost over $400 from Adobe. I decided to save money by buying the previous version released in 2012. So, of course, I looked on eBay to find an unused Acrobat XI Pro.

I found several sellers offering Acrobat XI Pro for BUY NOW. All those Sellers claimed their Acrobat copies were unused inside a 'factory-sealed' retail box wrapped in original cellophane. I bought one for $97.

When Acrobat arrived, it did appear to be inside a genuine Adobe box -- and it was wrapped in cellophane.

After Acrobat was installed on my PC, I inputted its serial number which came inside the box. The software issued an Error Message stating "INVALID SERIAL NUMBER. Call Adobe Support."

I called Adobe Customer Service. They asked for the Serial Number. I was told that it was not only invalid but also counterfeit.

RAMPANT CRIMINAL SCHEME

I did an Ebay search for "Adobe Acrobat XI Pro", which produced this page:

If you visit the Acrobat listings, you will note 6 or 7 'unused' copies for sale between $89 and $99. They -- the different selers -- post a generic 'stock' image of the software's box. Several use the same stock image. Each listing is nearly an identical 'clone' of the others.

None of the Sellers use a real profile photo. ALL SELLERS HAVE LOW FEEDBACK between 6 and 30 (though one has Feedback 138). None use a profile photo.

If you closely examine the Feedback of those Sellers, then the alarms go off.   Two have negative feedbacks from buyers stating 'pirated software'. But the others have 'buyer' generated Feedback. (That is, positive feedback received from buying very low-priced items. No real Seller feedback.)

I bet my $100 against your $1 that all those BUY NOW Acrobats between $89 and $99 are counterfeits.

EBAY'S INSANE RESPONSE

I called Ebay customer service to file a Buyer Protection claim and report the criminal scheme. What a joke!

The Ebay rep asked me to state a reason for my claim. I said 'stolen goods'. The rep said that 'stolen goods' was not a reason recognized by Ebay. He suggested 'not as described'. Hoo-Kay! Then the rep told me that part of the process would involve returning the counterfeit software to the Seller before I could get a refund.

DID YOU CATCH THAT, Folks?   Ebay's response was to instruct me to RETURN THE COUNTERFEIT SOFTWARE TO THE CRIMINAL SELLERS!   I know Ebay kisses the butts of Sellers...but PROTECTING CRIMINAL SELLERS is beyond belief.

I demanded to speak to a Ebay manager. Ha, ha! I got bounced around the various Ebay global call centers...and never found anybody at Ebay who thought shipping back counterfeit goods was a crazy idea. NOR COULD I FIND ANY EBAY EMPLOYEE WHO CARED TO INVESTIGATE THE ONGOING CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE OF SELLING COUNTERFEIT GOODS.

CONGRATULATIONS, Ebay for becoming a Fence for Counterfeit Products!

Unfortunately, Ebay has been a Fence for Counterfeit Products for years. Selling Animation figures is difficult enough, but competing with the 1000's of Chinese fakes has made it next to impossible. Yes, ebay has no interest in patrolling their listings, why would they, they make thousands on commissions and when pushed will fall back on their default line of ' we are just following the laws of the country we're selling in (China). ' More the reason most of us have a very small footprint on ebay and have moved to more reputable sites (Rakuten/Tarad) that have little tolerance for ebay like antics.

zcmi11 · ‎01-04-2016

It's not that folks misunderstand your point it's whether you want your $$ back or not.

Just me personally eBay is that last place I would come to buy certain things based on the reasons you outline in your post.

As has been explained in many posts when a buyer claims an item is Not as Described for an item purchased in the US the seller has to pay for the return shipping. Once you load the tracking and the item shows as delivered the refund is pretty much automatic. If on the other hand you opt to pursue this via PayPal the buyer does have to pay for the return shipping.

babylove80jr · ‎01-04-2016

Most (if not all) software is not eligible for retail sale, unless by a licensed retailer. Most of them DO NOT sell here on eBay, as the manufacturer will not allow it.

So buying software on eBay is basically a c--p shoot.

couldabeenworse · ‎01-04-2016

Ebay apparently does not care enough to even investigate. That amounts to 'aiding and abetting' a crime.

eBay does not have the facts to know that a crime is being committed; they have only your word against the seller's. They are not in a position to play King Solomon as to whether or not the goods are fake/knockoff/pirated, so the best they are going to do is get you your money back if you follow their procedure.

The only entity that can pursue the crooks is Adobe.