Dealing With Shady Character

[discountdominion]

Recently, a buyer has purchased two products from my store and opened a return for each one *immediately* upon delivery. He has claimed that the products are defective/damaged although these are products purchased from authorized dealers and they would never provide faulty goods, especially straight out of the box.

As bad as that is, it gets worse. Much worse.

-I have asked for photos to substatiate the claim, but he claims he cannot do so because his poor broken phone does not work. There is no explanation given why he cannot use a different/someone else's phone.

-Next, I offer a replacement, because of course if this was sincere, the customer would be disappointed but would still want the item (one of them cost almost $300). He declines.
-He then says he no longer needs it, although the order was placed literally two days before the return was opened up. He insists that the very same product was purchased on Craigslist instead.

-Sure. So I then offer to beat the price he paid for it there, but he will not take up the offer, as he'd rather pay a higher price and not have the security of Paypal and Ebay to cover any future problems the product might have.
-Next, I reluctantly offer a chance to have the package picked up from the guy's house.  He is adamant that this not occur for several unconvincing reasons...one of them being he is apparently never home, because he works 7 days a week, 12 hours a day.
-Okay, so I offer a chance to schedule the pick up at a time and place of his choosing, yet he claims he is only available after 10PM because of work. If that were the case, then he could not drop off the box with UPS if I gave the label he wants, because they the UPS store is not open after 10PM...and the box is much too large for a 24 hour dropbox.
-At this point, I also offer an opportunity to have the carrier pick up the box from his place of work, but magically they do not allow the carrier to service the building because it is gated.  So apparently his workplace never receives mail in other words.

-I then ask for the workplace's phone number and address so I can contact them to see if any arrangement can be made, but he refuses to provide this basic information.

Why would somebody be so unwilling to cooperate, if they are seriously trying to return an expensive item? Nothing but evasion and excuses for a simple task that takes one minute. I offer any time that is good from 8AM to 8PM any day for the next three weeks, but he insists that only me uploading a label will suffice. There is way too much fraud going on though, so I have pick ups take place for items of certain value. What should be done at this point?

[pburn]

I've reread your original post. I've read all the comments, suggestions, and/or recommendations from other members. I've read all your responses. You've argued against every single suggestion.

I'm curious as to what it is you want?

Do you want someone to say, "Heck, yeah! Fight this one to the death! And if you lose, appeal it!"

Okay. There. I've said it. You're right, and every other poster is wrong. Do whatever you want. Just don't expect anyone here to agree with you. Continuing to try to defend your position is not going to change any of these seasoned sellers' opinions.

[couldabeenworse]

---

@discountdominion wrote:

Direct from the Ebay help page:

"Accommodate the return another way

If you'd prefer, you can provide the buyer with another method of returning the item. For instance, you can offer to reimburse them for the return shipping costs, arrange to pick up the item in person, or let them drop the item off at your closest physical store. If you want to provide an alternative method of returning the item, simply select Confirm you will facilitate the return from the View return details section."

---

I certainly understand your suspicions regarding the buyer, but like it or not, eBay is not going to force the buyer to accept your return "accomodation".  I can't even imagine how they'd do so.  If the buyer asks eBay to step in, what eBay routinely does is to either provide a return shipping label at the seller's expense, or refund the buyer without requiring the return.  If this alternate return strategy actually works for you, a coupla thousand sellers here would love to hear about it.

[discountdominion]

---

@pburn wrote:
I've reread your original post. I've read all the comments, suggestions, and/or recommendations from other members. I've read all your responses. You've argued against every single suggestion.

I'm curious as to what it is you want?

Do you want someone to say, "Heck, yeah! Fight this one to the death! And if you lose, appeal it!"

Okay. There. I've said it. You're right, and every other poster is wrong. Do whatever you want. Just don't expect anyone here to agree with you. Continuing to try to defend your position is not going to change any of these seasoned sellers' opinions.

---

I am simply looking for acknowledgement of this attempt at scamming, first and foremost. What is the reason I should believe this customer is actually honest? I was also looking for input from others who may have experienced a similar situation.  Seems agreeable that we are all against (at least potential) criminal behavior, and it's a good idea to at least shed light on situations like this for others to educate themselves so we can better combat it.

I was not looking for advice along the lines of "cater to the thief, and everything will be fine". I actually have another close-knit community that I should share this with. Perhaps I'm in the wrong place.

[discountdominion]

---

@couldabeenworse wrote:

---

@discountdominion wrote:

Direct from the Ebay help page:

"Accommodate the return another way

If you'd prefer, you can provide the buyer with another method of returning the item. For instance, you can offer to reimburse them for the return shipping costs, arrange to pick up the item in person, or let them drop the item off at your closest physical store. If you want to provide an alternative method of returning the item, simply select Confirm you will facilitate the return from the View return details section."

---

I certainly understand your suspicions regarding the buyer, but like it or not, eBay is not going to force the buyer to accept your return "accomodation".  I can't even imagine how they'd do so.  If the buyer asks eBay to step in, what eBay routinely does is to either provide a return shipping label at the seller's expense, or refund the buyer without requiring the return.  If this alternate return strategy actually works for you, a coupla thousand sellers here would love to hear about it.

---

I have communicated with specialists in the past who have acted as a mediator with the customer regarding return shipping. They always seemed to understand when you were giving great care and assistance while arranging the return. They still explicitly mention that setting up a pick up is a viable option on their walkthrough page. Not sure how Ebay can justify contradicting their own policies in writing.

[couldabeenworse]

I have communicated with specialists in the past who have acted as a mediator with the customer regarding return shipping.

If you are valuable enough to eBay that you get that special consideration, great.  Maybe some would-be scammers will just give up against that kind of resistance.   Most sellers do not have that opportunity here.

 They still explicitly mention that setting up a pick up is a viable option on their walkthrough page. Not sure how Ebay can justify contradicting their own policies in writing.

Nothing in the policy states eBay will force these options on the buyer.  Hope it works for you, but will be surprised.

As far as the buyer goes, I would be suspicious as well.  However, there are plenty of buyers who don't want to exert much effort on a return, and I think most buyers would become uncooperative once they see the seller distrusts them.

I am curious, though, how you think having the box picked up will help you?  What's to prevent a dishonest buyer from returning the same junk he would return with a prepaid label?  Is this a freight item?  Or are you thinking the carrier will inspect contents before picking up?

[gew6463]

I appreciate the explanation; UPS is a more reasonable option (if the schedule permitted). I have no experience drop-shipping, so can't give much advice. Sorry you are having to deal with the frustration of this. 

[creoleorchid]

 It will be returned to a large return facility and before it is discovered that the wrong item was delivered, Ebay will likely  definately have given a refund.

The third option you keep referring to, having the seller arrange for pick up, I have never seen on a return request screen. If it truly is an option from the drop down menu, I can guarantee you that selecting it will result in the buyer "asking eBay to step in", which will result in a defect for you and  a return label charged to your next invoice. As soon as tracking shows delivered to wherever, the buyer will get a refund. You will  have the option to appeal it but I wouldn't hold my breath and the defect will stand even if they reverse it.

Nobody is saying a scammer is OK, it's just that most of us have been there and there is no use fighting it. If you call CS they will tell you that "faulty returns" are part of doing business. But since you drop shipped, you probably won't even know what was returned.

Just my HO but you are way overthinking this. Just accept the return before eBay does it for you.

[discountdominion]

---

@couldabeenworse wrote:

I have communicated with specialists in the past who have acted as a mediator with the customer regarding return shipping.

If you are valuable enough to eBay that you get that special consideration, great.  Maybe some would-be scammers will just give up against that kind of resistance.   Most sellers do not have that opportunity here.

 They still explicitly mention that setting up a pick up is a viable option on their walkthrough page. Not sure how Ebay can justify contradicting their own policies in writing.

Nothing in the policy states eBay will force these options on the buyer.  Hope it works for you, but will be surprised.

As far as the buyer goes, I would be suspicious as well.  However, there are plenty of buyers who don't want to exert much effort on a return, and I think most buyers would become uncooperative once they see the seller distrusts them.

I am curious, though, how you think having the box picked up will help you?  What's to prevent a dishonest buyer from returning the same junk he would return with a prepaid label?  Is this a freight item?  Or are you thinking the carrier will inspect contents before picking up?

---

Well, the customers can always be uncooperative if they wish. I've even seen customers not like the label uploaded because of the carrier it was or complain about not having a printer. I don't see how Ebay can undermine their own recommendation to arrange the return with care and effort, by subsequently faulting the seller who bent over backwards to make sure it was done.  I understand a feeling of distrust the customer may suspect, but from my vantage point, the trust has been lost based on our exchange. I don't see why I should move forward with good faith knowing the history with him. Again, this is the third time he has tried to return something right after it arrived here in the last week. I finally blocked him to make sure it does not happen again.

As far as having it picked up: the carrier has a label for a 16 lb box. There would be an obvious inconsistency if the buyer were to give, say an empty box, or put something in it that was of little value and weight. Also it's nice to get a signature for some accountability should something go awry. It's a matter of being precautious in a case that has sent red flags waving.

[discountdominion]

---

@creoleorchid wrote:

 It will be returned to a large return facility and before it is discovered that the wrong item was delivered, Ebay will likely  definately have given a refund.

The third option you keep referring to, having the seller arrange for pick up, I have never seen on a return request screen. If it truly is an option from the drop down menu, I can guarantee you that selecting it will result in the buyer "asking eBay to step in", which will result in a defect for you and  a return label charged to your next invoice. As soon as tracking shows delivered to wherever, the buyer will get a refund. You will  have the option to appeal it but I wouldn't hold my breath and the defect will stand even if they reverse it.

Nobody is saying a scammer is OK, it's just that most of us have been there and there is no use fighting it. If you call CS they will tell you that "faulty returns" are part of doing business. But since you drop shipped, you probably won't even know what was returned.

Just my HO but you are way overthinking this. Just accept the return before eBay does it for you.

---

I'm glad you are at least pointing out a huge flaw with the return process : issuing a refund for return delivery, regardless of it's contents. That to me is inexcusable, and serves as a gaping loop-hole for scammers to exploit to no end.

Sorry, but I can't accept that taking two or three hundred dollar hits here and there is just part of the business on Ebay. That's not a sufficient answer by a long stretch.

[pburn]

I think most of us agree that your buyer's, at best, a jerk. That doesn't necessarily change the way this is going to play out. No one has any good advice for you on how to avoid this or circumvent the inevitable outcome--because there isn't any.

You do whatever it is you need to do.

Come back and let us all know how this transaction ends up. Good luck.

[southern*sweet*tea]

This guy is playing you like a fiddle, and you're falling for it hook, line and sinker.  When excuses start to fly, always assume you're being played. He wants you to either give up and refund him, or he wants you to do exactly what you're doing now - being hard headed - because he knows that if a case is opened and you stall on the return label, he gets a freebie.

Issue the return label. You won't be charged until it is actually used. The ball will be in the buyer's court. He can return it within the allotted timeframe or forgo the refund.  Once you issue that label, the buyer has five days to get it into the mailstream. On day six, if the tracking shows no movement, call and have the case closed in your favor while you are on the phone.

Will he return a box of rocks? Maybe.  Will he return the unused items? Maybe. Will he give up and just keep the item? Maybe.    MY gut says he's waiting for a freebie from a hard headed seller.

This is the risk you take anywhere you sell online. Between Paypal, credit cards and whatever protections a particular venue offers, buyers have SIX MONTHS to get their money back.  This is something you need to expect and something you need to plan for by self insuring.

[kensgiftshop]

---

@discountdominion wrote:

---

@kensgiftshop wrote:

---

@discountdominion wrote:

---

 Three purchases in a week, all resulting in immediate return requests? Impossible unless he is the unluckiest guy in the world.

Only someone who is lying would respond in the manner in which he has, including pretending to work all day, seven days a week

---

like I mentioned earlier, he probably seen the boxes from the river and decided to return the items.

I don't buy items from there and if I got packages from them, I would return them also.

I worked at a place and we were working 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, and there would be no way that I would sit there all day waiting for UPS to come pick up a package.

---

Why lie about it then? I have a free return policy. He could have stated it was purchased by mistake or he no longer needed it, etc...There is dishonesty being expressed in that case right out of the gate. Sort of sullies his whole case.

As for him working 84 hours a week, which is extremely uncommon (including no days off all month)....

 Also, what is the problem with UPS showing up to pick up the package at your workplace?

Buyers know they have a better chance of getting their money back if they file INAD.

It's not uncommon at all for us older guys to work 80+ hours a week. One place I worked, we worked 12+ hour shifts 7 days a week. We did it for 4 months straight.

I've never worked at a place where they allow their employees to bring packages so they can be picked up by carriers.

[kensgiftshop]

---

@discountdominion wrote:

---

 Again, this is the third time he has tried to return something right after it arrived here in the last week. I finally blocked him to make sure it does not happen again.

---

You take returns, which means, you take them for any reason.

If he bought 100 items and wanted to return them, he could.

[myangelandmyprincess]

---

@southern*sweet*tea wrote:

This guy is playing you like a fiddle, and you're falling for it hook, line and sinker.  When excuses start to fly, always assume you're being played. He wants you to either give up and refund him, or he wants you to do exactly what you're doing now - being hard headed - because he knows that if a case is opened and you stall on the return label, he gets a freebie.

Issue the return label. You won't be charged until it is actually used. The ball will be in the buyer's court. He can return it within the allotted timeframe or forgo the refund.  Once you issue that label, the buyer has five days to get it into the mailstream. On day six, if the tracking shows no movement, call and have the case closed in your favor while you are on the phone.

Will he return a box of rocks? Maybe.  Will he return the unused items? Maybe. Will he give up and just keep the item? Maybe.    MY gut says he's waiting for a freebie from a hard headed seller.

This is the risk you take anywhere you sell online. Between Paypal, credit cards and whatever protections a particular venue offers, buyers have SIX MONTHS to get their money back.  This is something you need to expect and something you need to plan for by self insuring.

---

This. ^^^^ 

issue the label and put the ball in his court.  Not doing so risks him getting a refund without a return and that is definitely NOT a win for you