Can seller offering free returns withhold SNAD refund if the item was returned in same condition?

[diya_jay]

I recently purchased a MY AMAZING BLOW DRY SECRET QUICK DRY SHAKE N SPRAY from a seller with 99.9% rating, which ended up being my first ever return on Ebay. I never check whether a seller has free returns or not, as I only buy stuff I would like to use and Ebay returns are a bit more cumbersome (at least for me) compared to some other places I shop from.

It's a product I've been using for over 2 years now from various sellers/sources, and can very well distinguish the right item from a fake one. This one had a weird pungent smell and instantly tangled my hair the one time I used it. Not to mention the fact that while the actual product does an awesome job of cutting the blow dry time of my super long hair to just 5-10 mins, this one did nothing useful, instead my hair feeling less washed than before.

Sure enough, I decided to return it and mentioned the issue clearly in the description.

Below is how the messages went -

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Apr 22

The seller issued a refund for $7.62

Comments

This is a remorse purchase - Product is brand ne and still sealed.

Apr 22

Return item delivered

Apr 19

You added tracking details

Carrier

USPS

Apr 12

The seller provided RMA

Apr 12

The seller approved your request

Apr 12

The seller sent you a message

Message

Sounds like your stating it seems spoiled not that it isn't authentic.....

Apr 12

You created a return

Reason for return

Doesn't seem authentic

Comments

Smells terrible and completely dried and tangled my hair. Also did nothing to cut down the drying time like it is supposed to. I ve bought the same product earlier as well from other places, this one is nothing like any of those. Hence would like to return.

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Multiple issues with this whole thing -

• For one, the product was indeed fake, and I did buy the real stuff a week later elsewhere.
• It's my favorite hair product, so this was no remorse purchase, given that I've bought it over Ebay itself quite a few times earlier (those sellers don't sell it anymore).
• He claims the stuff came back to him sealed, even though he himself had not send it sealed to me.
• And if that was the case - that it did come back to him sealed - then he got the item in the exact condition in which he had sent to me, so how can he give only 50% refund?

Just wanted to understand from all the knowledgeable members here -

• Is it allowed for a seller offering free returns to withhold 50% of the refund for remorse (which it is not, but anyway), especially while mentioning that he got it back sealed?
• I wanted to let it go until his refund and comment that came with it, so negged him - my second neg ever. Guess what? It has been removed. My exact words were - Fake product, seller refused to give full refund despite offering free returns. - Does this violate the policy? If so, what policy?

 Please note: Ebay did give me a courtesy refund for the remaining amount after I escalated, but still feel that this was unfair as the seller should've been the one to do so. Item# is.

- Diya

[pburn]

Well--I'm a buyer only, but here's what I found on partial refunds, from the 2018 Spring Seller Update (and I included a link to the page below the quote):

If I offer free returns, how will eBay protect me in these situations?

• A buyer uses or damages an item and returns it.

  Starting June 1, 2018, if you offered free returns and an item is returned damaged or missing parts, you can issue a partial refund and we will protect you from any buyer claims and remove any negative or neutral feedback.

• A buyer leaves negative feedback because I issued a partial refund.

  If you issue a partial refund on a free return, we will remove any negative or neutral feedback.

https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/seller-updates/2018-spring/seller-protection.html#m17-1-tb2

So, two takeaways from that quote:

1) sellers offering free returns seem to be able to issue a partial refund no matter what the reason for the return, based on the condition of the item upon return (even though your seller's claim was, uh, let's say, somewhat dubious); and,

2) apparently, it wasn't specifically what you said in your feedback. It was the fact that you left negative feedback at all.

Does that help?

[orangehound]

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Is it allowed for a seller offering free returns to withhold 50% of the refund for remorse (which it is not, but anyway), especially while mentioning that he got it back sealed?

I don't think the seller got it back sealed, since you used it.  But, with free returns the seller can deduct up to 50% if the product has been used or the factory seal is broken.  You did the correct thing by escalating the refund ... eBay will compensate you for a SNAD, even if the seller will not.

I think the seller's comment about it being sealed was meant to describe how it was originally sent.

I wanted to let it go until his refund and comment that came with it, so negged him - my second neg ever. Guess what? It has been removed. My exact words were - Fake product, seller refused to give full refund despite offering free returns. - Does this violate the policy? If so, what policy?

Sellers offering free returns can not receive neutral or negative feedback.  It is automatically removed.  This is one of the eBay incentives to encourage sellers to offer free returns.

... but still feel that this was unfair as the seller should've been the one to do so.

If it is any consolation, the seller did lose $7-8 in shipping both ways.

[myangelandmyprincess]

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@pburn wrote:

Well--I'm a buyer only, but here's what I found on partial refunds, from the 2018 Spring Seller Update (and I included a link to the page below the quote):

If I offer free returns, how will eBay protect me in these situations?

• A buyer uses or damages an item and returns it.

  Starting June 1, 2018, if you offered free returns and an item is returned damaged or missing parts, you can issue a partial refund and we will protect you from any buyer claims and remove any negative or neutral feedback.

• A buyer leaves negative feedback because I issued a partial refund.

  If you issue a partial refund on a free return, we will remove any negative or neutral feedback.

https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/seller-updates/2018-spring/seller-protection.html#m17-1-tb2

So, two takeaways from that quote:

1) sellers offering free returns seem to be able to issue a partial refund no matter what the reason for the return, based on the condition of the item upon return (even though your seller's claim was, uh, let's say, somewhat dubious); and,

2) apparently, it wasn't specifically what you said in your feedback. It was the fact that you left negative feedback at all.

Does that help?

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I’m wondering if the partial refund even has to be part of it to get the negative removed.  Can they issue a full refund.  Still claim it was sent back damaged to eBay to get a neg removed.   I think that’s what happened on the buyer board thread.  Customer service had told the buyer it was removed because the seller appealed the not as described claim    It was a free returns seller and they appealed saying it was returned different../

[green-night]

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@orangehound wrote:

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Is it allowed for a seller offering free returns to withhold 50% of the refund for remorse (which it is not, but anyway), especially while mentioning that he got it back sealed?

I don't think the seller got it back sealed, since you used it.  But, with free returns the seller can deduct up to 50% if the product has been used or the factory seal is broken.  You did the correct thing by escalating the refund ... eBay will compensate you for a SNAD, even if the seller will not.

I think the seller's comment about it being sealed was meant to describe how it was originally sent.

I wanted to let it go until his refund and comment that came with it, so negged him - my second neg ever. Guess what? It has been removed. My exact words were - Fake product, seller refused to give full refund despite offering free returns. - Does this violate the policy? If so, what policy?

Sellers offering free returns can not receive neutral or negative feedback.  It is automatically removed.  This is one of the eBay incentives to encourage sellers to offer free returns.

... but still feel that this was unfair as the seller should've been the one to do so.

If it is any consolation, the seller did lose $7-8 in shipping both ways.

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I could be wrong but I don't think simply offering 'free returns' gets FB automatically removed.  My understanding is that it is only removed if the seller is negged because they issued a partial refund on  a free return listing. 

I wasn't able to find the item number using the advanced search function (could you?-if so how?) so I am not sure if the seller offered free shipping in addition to free returns.   But if they didn't offer free shipping, they could have deducted the original shipping from the refund and only would have only been out the return shipping. 

[diya_jay]

Thank you all for your replies. Just so you know, while calling to escalate, I had asked the CS rep multiple times if there is any policy that a neg can be given to seller offering free returns, and she confirmed that yes, neg can be given and there is no rule that the feedback has to be positive. Now, I'm not sure if she meant that it can be given and then removed on seller's request, the way it appears to have happened. I'm also aware the many CS reps agree with whatever we say just to get us off the phone, so it could be that as well.

I did notice that the seller has 5 other negatives in the past year, which is why I thought mine would stick. Oh well!

His responses to the negatives range from dismissive to condescending to outright rude. My mistake that I didnt go through those before making the purchase.

[mr_lincoln]

@diya_jay   Yes, the Free Returns comes with some protections for Sellers including the 50% Remorse Refund and Protection against Negative Feedback.  A SNAD claim would of course be handled differently forcing a Seller to pay return shipping and providing a Buyer with a 100% Full Refund and a Neg FB posted would stand.

In regards to the FB, keep in mind the Seller may not be aware that the item is fake and comments regarding the product itself might be better served in a Product Review where your expertise with the hairdryer could expound its virtues as well as warn others on how to identify fakes or knockoffs.   I do not believe Neutral FBs are removed in the case of Free Returns.

Let me share a brief FB story with you.  I sold a Zippo lighter that still had the factory applied tamper strip on the back that made sure the lid was not opened.  The Buyer left Neutral FB stating it was hard to remove the adhesive left on the lighter when they took the tamper strip off.  My reply to the FB was as simple as Improper use of FB, issue is better served on a product review.  In other words, the manufacturer put the tamper strip on the lighter for a very good reason and I as the seller had absolutely nothing to do with the manufacturer's choice in adhesive used on the tamper strip.

[green-night]

Yes, the Free Returns comes with some protections for Sellers including the 50% Remorse Refund and Protection against Negative Feedback.  A SNAD claim would of course be handled differently forcing a Seller to pay return shipping and providing a Buyer with a 100% Full Refund and a Neg FB posted would stand.

@mr_lincoln  This is incorrect.  Free returns do not come with a 50% remorse refund (?) ---- sellers who offer free returns are able to deduct up to 50% of the item price if the item (or so the seller says) is returned in a different condition.    Remorse returns and SNAD returns are both handled the same way in regards to sellers who offer free returns....in either case the seller pays for return shipping, and in either case the seller can deduct up to 50% as well as original shipping if they say the item was returned damaged.

This is exactly what happened in the case of the OP.   OP opened a NAD return and the seller only gave a partial refund.    OP negged the seller and the FB was removed. 

[mr_lincoln]

@green-night   Thanks for the correction ...

[diya_jay]

@pburn 

@orangehound 

@myangelandmyprincess 

@mr_lincoln 

@green-night 

Really appreciate you all chiming in, wish I could mark multiple answers as solutions as most of you have mentioned similar points.

Let me tell you that I've been a silent observer (mostly) on these forums, and have learned so much more about Ebay and its policies from all of you and all other helpful posters here, than I ever would've otherwise.

Sincere thanks to all!

[orangehound]

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@green-night wrote:

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I could be wrong but I don't think simply offering 'free returns' gets FB automatically removed.  My understanding is that it is only removed if the seller is negged because they issued a partial refund on  a free return listing. 

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You are correct.  This is only if a partial refund is offered.  I was incomplete in my response.