Buyer purposely refusing to sign for purchase. No recipient found.

[things.nstuff]

Buyer purchased items valued at $1100 that is comprised of scientific equipment with a no return policy. After the shipping label was created and the items already in transit I see a message from the buyer requesting to cancel the order because they didn't have items needed to use the machine that would be bought separately. I messaged them and let them know that this was already in transit and that I would not be able to cancel the order.

The items have already arrived at the buyers location but with a "No recipient available" notification. Being over $750 eBay requires the buyer to have signature confirmation and I have also messaged them about the items arrival. The package is now being held at their local post office until the 31st but from my standpoint the buyer is purposely ignoring my messages and the packing slip so they can get a refund.

How would I best deal with this situation if the buyer does not sign for the items? My plan would be to message them every 3-5 days about the items arrival and let them know I can call the post office to reschedule the delivery.

[stephenmorgan]

This will be interesting. 

Usually a item being help for pickup is considered delivered.  But with the signature requirement it is not considered delivered.

Can you ask for the item to be sent back to you thru the USPS so at least you do not lose it?

[richard1rst]

---

@things.nstuff wrote:

Buyer purchased items valued at $1100 that is comprised of scientific equipment with a no return policy. After the shipping label was created and the items already in transit I see a message from the buyer requesting to cancel the order because they didn't have items needed to use the machine that would be bought separately. I messaged them and let them know that this was already in transit and that I would not be able to cancel the order.

The items have already arrived at the buyers location but with a "No recipient available" notification. Being over $750 eBay requires the buyer to have signature confirmation and I have also messaged them about the items arrival. The package is now being held at their local post office until the 31st but from my standpoint the buyer is purposely ignoring my messages and the packing slip so they can get a refund.

How would I best deal with this situation if the buyer does not sign for the items? My plan would be to message them every 3-5 days about the items arrival and let them know I can call the post office to reschedule the delivery.

---

You are missing the whole point.

THEY DO NOT WANT IT !

Nothing you can do is going to get it delivered.

Your first mistake was responding that you could not cancel as it had already been shipped - What you should have done is contact the shipper and redirect the package back to you. Then issue a refund minus shipping costs using "buyer requested cancellation" as the reason.

Accept the inevitable. It is NEVER going to get delivered. And if you continue to dither you will never get it back and you will lose your money to boot.

Yes, it sucks. But realize that "fair" is only a skin complexion.

[kensgiftshop]

The buyer already told you they don't want it anymore.

Have the package intercepted and returned to you, then refund for the price of the item.

[albertabrightalberta]

---

@richard1rst wrote:

---

Your first mistake was responding that you could not cancel as it had already been shipped - What you should have done is contact the shipper and redirect the package back to you. Then issue a refund minus shipping costs using "buyer requested cancellation" as the reason.

---

My opinion is that @things.nstuff did the right thing in letting the buyer know that it was already shipped so they couldn't cancel. 

And once shipped, there's no guarantee that a recall/intercept will happen. THere's only a charge if they intercept the package and return it to the sender but often, it does get delivered. 

So even if the OP had filed for the interception, no refund should be issued until it's delivered back to the sender. 

At this point, my suggestion to @things.nstuff would be to go to USPS.com, find the direct phone number (not the 800 number) to the post office in the zip code where the package is being held  and ask them to RTS. 

Then, once it's received, you can issue a refund for the item price, deducting any costs you incurred (postage, FVF, etc.). 

I do believe that if the buyer doesn't pick up the s.c. required item, it's still considered to have been delivered. 

[things.nstuff]

I don't mind waiting, it will eventually be returned automatically as of the 31st. The box isn't small, is insured and stored at the post office so i'm not worried about it getting lost. I'll give it a little more time as the buyer could of not been able to pick up just yet although doubtful.

[albertabrightalberta]

---

@things.nstuff wrote:

Buyer purchased items valued at $1100 that is comprised of scientific equipment with a no return policy.

---

@things.nstuff 

You do know that your no return policy is out the window if the buyer files a NAD claim, right? Not only will you be issuing a full refund but you'll be paying for return shipping also. 

[12345jamesstamps]

I thought if a buyer refuse to sign for an item after so many days it gets returned to seller...where seller doesn't have to do anything while it is sitting in location to be picked up. Then buyer would open a claim item not received...I don't think buyer would win because they refused it...Am I wrong?

My own opinion, I would not remind buyer anymore through emails...that could make it worse such as a not favorable feedback. If I had something in the mail worth that much I would make sure to get it if I want it.

It sounds like buyer is not going to go get it...and buyer doesn't want the problem of returning it.

Buyer may not know refusing an item can mean no refund...even if item is returned back to seller...am I wrong?

[redmodelt]

Once the buyer messaged to cancel, the OP should have requested a RTS through the shipping service.

Sure, they could force the delivery, then received a charge back later and had the privilege of refunding the full amount including shipping plus being charged $20 to boot. The buyer getting a full refund and keeping the item. 

No returns does not mean no refunds. 

[stephenmorgan]

---

@12345jamesstamps wrote:

I thought if a buyer refuse to sign for an item after so many days it gets returned to seller...where seller doesn't have to do anything while it is sitting in location to be picked up. Then buyer would open a claim item not received...I don't think buyer would win because they refused it...Am I wrong?

My own opinion, I would not remind buyer anymore through emails...that could make it worse such as a not favorable feedback. If I had something in the mail worth that much I would make sure to get it if I want it.

It sounds like buyer is not going to go get it...and buyer doesn't want the problem of returning it.

Buyer may not know refusing an item can mean no refund...even if item is returned back to seller...am I wrong?

---

That is how I understand it as well.

[albertabrightalberta]

---

@redmodelt wrote:

Once the buyer messaged to cancel, the OP should have requested a RTS through the shipping service.

Sure, they could force the delivery, then received a charge back later and had the privilege of refunding the full amount including shipping plus being charged $20 to boot. The buyer getting a full refund and keeping the item. 

No returns does not mean no refunds. 

---

I had a case in which I file for a package intercept.  (Buyer was a scammer.) USPS was never able to retrieve the package to return it to me and it was ultimately delivered. I wasn't charged for the intercept (which never happened) nor was my money grabbed back by ebay for the scammer's purchase. 

In this case, I think the buyer will lose the item (if she doesn't pick it up) and the money since the seller isn't obligated to refund.

If the seller gets it back, he/she can issue a refund after deducting expenses but isn't required to do so.

ETA: I have a problem with some of the victim blaming going on. The seller/OP is the victim and did nothing wrong! Even if the item hadn't been shipped, the seller wouldn't have been obligated to cancel. But having shipped it, again, there's no obligation to recall it.

[booji_girl]

Not signing for a signature required item, or refusing to accept the delivery both negate the buyer's MBG rights per the eBay article on MBG. It also makes it pretty impossible for them to win an INAD claim because by definition they did not unwrap the item (possible exception is proof of catastrophic damage to the package that likely ruined the item before it even arrived, but I don't have any experience with that).

Of course, nothing prevents someone from doing a chargeback, but honestly being extra nice won't prevent one either. I've requested a reroute because the buyer seemed to be nice and not a scammer, just justifiably confused at an excessively long time without tracking updates after the initial scan (this has been happening a ton lately with USPS). They no longer wanted the item, so I asked for it to be rerouted back to me as a courtesy, but warned them that there is no guarantee it will succeed and if it does get delivered, they'll have to do a return or keep the item. I find politely explaining things with proof you're not **bleep**'ing (e.g. screenshots/links to relevant USPS/eBay rules) tends to work out well most times, but there's a small portion of the population who'll be malicious no matter what, so there's no use in trying to prevent that through affording them any more than the honesty, respect, and kindness you would give to any other buyer. Genuinely nice people tend to appreciate the polite, thorough, but honest communication, but an over the top aggressive or super rude response lets you know who is truly malicious.

I'd also be wary of sending many messages especially if they don't reply, as that can give them an opening to drag things further by accusing you of harassing them with excessive messages; on the flipside, if they are nasty and breaking ebay rules in writing to you, you may consider reporting that behavior.