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ALL snad cases now automatically found for the buyer, admitted by reps and leadership

A while back, a case was opened which was very obviously a buyer remorse case.  I do not accept returns because I sell computer software which I describe diligently and I repeatedly say it is the buyer's responsibility to research compatibility, etc.

 

Of course, it was opened as not described. Buyer contradicted herself right in the details, basically saying "I bought widget 1, I received widget 1." I thought, cool, an easy win, let's close this out on the phone and block this nut. Also, the nut made up a story about how they called eBay looking for widget 1 and eBay told them to buy my listing.

 

Not so fast! Rep informs me that as of May 2018, eBay will no longer be allowing reps of any kind to "change" the reason for a SNAD and close them out in the seller's favor. This is a new policy because you see, buyers are just so confused sometimes that they might be giving themselves away when opening claims and eBay doesn't want it to be easy for sellers to fight these claims. I got the old "eBay is a venue, we are not a party to the transaction and want to remain impartial." So I guess they will remain impartial by not even taking the buyers at their words. The new rule is, apparently, if a buyer writes "Haha, I am just returning this because I used it and eBay lets me, so there!", I will be forced to accept the return and eBay
"may", if I ask really nice, reimburse me for the shipping label cost after the scammer gets refunded.

 

eBay told me to "work" with the buyer to "reach" a resolution. Naturally, even though it was a brand new buyer, the moment escalation became available, they escalated and instantly won their buyer remorse case which they opened as a SNAD. eBay basically told me to go pound sand, maybe they will give me a FVF credit and label cost credit if I beg really nicely.

 

Also, apparently eBay is now engaged in outright fraudulent misrepresentation of their own policies. The "ask us to step in and help" button, where they promise they will look at both sides of the case and make a fair decision, now just automatically closes the case in the buyer's favor 100% of the time, guaranteed. They wait an hour or two just to make you think a real human looked at your case.

 

Thoughts?

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ALL snad cases now automatically found for the buyer, admitted by reps and leadership

Well if you had "free returns" you could have omitted shipping from the refund as well as upto 50% of the sale price.

 

Also though if the buyer admitted opening it they voided the MBG.

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ALL snad cases now automatically found for the buyer, admitted by reps and leadership

Well if you had "free returns" you could have omitted shipping from the refund as well as upto 50% of the sale price.

 

How would that work? Last time I received an item in a different condition, I called eBay and they told me the same thing they tell other sellers: You accepted the return so you have to issue a refund, no matter what condition it came back in. So apparently, unless things have changed, the whole "eBay will protect you if you received your item back damaged" is just another false promise.

 

Also, of course, no store out there accepts returns on new software that has been opened. Obviously, in today's world, the code is what matters, and anyone can open a package, steal the code, and I have no recourse. No, not even Amazon takes back new software that has been opened. Apparently eBay is now trying to attract all the frauds that were banned from Amazon.

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ALL snad cases now automatically found for the buyer, admitted by reps and leadership


@jacevoid wrote:
Rep informs me that as of May 2018, eBay will no longer be allowing reps of any kind to "change" the reason for a SNAD and close them out in the seller's favor.

The new rule is, apparently, if a buyer writes "Haha, I am just returning this because I used it and eBay lets me, so there!", I will be forced to accept the return and eBay  "may", if I ask really nice, reimburse me for the shipping label cost after the scammer gets refunded.

 

The "ask us to step in and help" button, where they promise they will look at both sides of the case and make a fair decision, now just automatically closes the case in the buyer's favor 100% of the time, guaranteed. 

 

Thoughts?


This is an internal (unwritten) policy, and I'm pretty sure it has been in place well before May 2018 ... I think November 2017 might be a more accurate date.

 

And, yep, this is eBay's "MBG theft loophole" that allows anyone to steal anything on eBay.  Terrible policy because eBay returns now have no teeth to combat crime.  It is the reason why we don't list expensive items on eBay any longer.

 

What's even more luncacy is that eBay will make money if a seller tries to combat the crime ...

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ALL snad cases now automatically found for the buyer, admitted by reps and leadership


@jacevoid wrote:

Well if you had "free returns" you could have omitted shipping from the refund as well as upto 50% of the sale price.

 

How would that work? Last time I received an item in a different condition, I called eBay and they told me the same thing they tell other sellers: You accepted the return so you have to issue a refund, no matter what condition it came back in. So apparently, unless things have changed, the whole "eBay will protect you if you received your item back damaged" is just another false promise.

 

Also, of course, no store out there accepts returns on new software that has been opened. Obviously, in today's world, the code is what matters, and anyone can open a package, steal the code, and I have no recourse. No, not even Amazon takes back new software that has been opened. Apparently eBay is now trying to attract all the frauds that were banned from Amazon.


Do you read the seasonal seller updates? Ebay announced in the spring 2018 spring update that sellers who offer FREE returns can issue a refund up to 50% if the buyer returns the item in a different condition. If you don’t offer free returns then yes you do have to issue a full refund and report the buyer



One life is all we have to live
Love is all we have to give

**Formerly known as MissJen316**
Message 5 of 17
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ALL snad cases now automatically found for the buyer, admitted by reps and leadership

This is an internal (unwritten) policy, and I'm pretty sure it has been in place well before May 2018 ... I think November 2017 might be a more accurate date.

 

And, yep, this is the "MBG theft loophole" that allows anyone to steal anything on eBay.  Terrible policy.  It is the reason why we don't list expensive items on eBay any longer.

 

Until early June, I was able to call in and have a rep revise the case and close in my favor (which, btw, unless the buyer almost literally admitted to conning me in the return details, was almost impossible). The rep told me the change happened officially in May 2018 but was discussed as far back as December 2017.

 

According to the eBay leadership person I spoke to, allowing reps to close returns in seller's favor resulted in sellers "gaming" the system and fooling reps into cheating those poor buyers. Like they don't already also have Paypal and credit card providers to run to as backups. Apparently, anything other than a 100% result in the buyer's favor is "gaming" the process.

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ALL snad cases now automatically found for the buyer, admitted by reps and leadership

Do you read the seasonal seller updates? Ebay announced in the spring 2018 spring update that sellers who offer FREE returns can issue a refund up to 50% if the buyer returns the item in a different condition. If you don’t offer free returns then yes you do have to issue a full refund and report the buyer

 

Yes, I read that back when it was announced. Has anyone actually succesfully done this? One, eBay  already had a policy like this in place where you were supposed to call and be able to complain to a rep if a buyer returned a damaged item. In reality, it was completely fake, as every time you were just told "sorry, you already accepted the return, it doesn't matter how it was sent back to you".

 

Two, if I sold a $2500 software item that was sealed, (a recent real life sale for me) and it was returned opened, that means taking a theoretical $1250 loss on that item. But in reality, its a full $2500 loss as the buyer likely stole the codes at that point.

 

 

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ALL snad cases now automatically found for the buyer, admitted by reps and leadership


@jacevoid wrote:

Do you read the seasonal seller updates? Ebay announced in the spring 2018 spring update that sellers who offer FREE returns can issue a refund up to 50% if the buyer returns the item in a different condition. If you don’t offer free returns then yes you do have to issue a full refund and report the buyer

 

Yes, I read that back when it was announced. Has anyone actually succesfully done this? One, eBay  already had a policy like this in place where you were supposed to call and be able to complain to a rep if a buyer returned a damaged item. In reality, it was completely fake, as every time you were just told "sorry, you already accepted the return, it doesn't matter how it was sent back to you".

 

Two, if I sold a $2500 software item that was sealed, (a recent real life sale for me) and it was returned opened, that means taking a theoretical $1250 loss on that item. But in reality, its a full $2500 loss as the buyer likely stole the codes at that point.

 

 


If you don't get your answers this week, come back next week as all the blues aren't here this week, they are in Vegas for the Ebay Open functions.  I faguely remember reading something about a few [very few] exceptions and new/video games should be protected for the vary reason you mention.  But I think we need a blue to answer the question and give us a link to a policy we can bookmark.

 

With that said, the only reason I'm not doing Free returns AKA 30 [or 60] day returns with seller pays shipping is because of how Ebay treats fragrances.  I sell new, seal fragrances amoung other things.  But I've been told by Ebay representatives that Ebay will allow buyers to open and test a fragrance and still allow a return for full value.  Even though once they break that seal I can no longer sell it as a new item.  And Ebay knows that.  But their position is that sometimes a buyer can't tell there is a problem with them item until they smell it.

 

After smelling it, it may be soured or otherwise not up to snuff and the buyer can return it in Ebayland.  Now there is some value in that statement however that isn't why most that want to return a fragrance for its smell wants to return it.  It is typically buyer's remorse, they don't like the scent.  Obviously a very subjective and personal opinion.  Something no seller can control on any level.  We can't guarantee that someone will like the scent.

 

But Ebay allows it to be returned as a new item.  So I'm sticking with my 30 day return policy and buyer pays shipping.  That allows me to charge shipping for the return of the item to the buyer when they file a Buyer's Remorse claim.  And surprisingly most actually file the proper type of claim.  I do have a couple that didn't, but most do.


mam98031  •  Volunteer Community Member  •  Buyer/Seller since 1999

"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you." Quote from Edward I Koch

Message 8 of 17
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ALL snad cases now automatically found for the buyer, admitted by reps and leadership

 

 

This is what it looks like in the return process.   I withheld the original shipping on my last SNAD and the buyer didn't do anything, so I don't know what would happen if push came to shove.   

 

 

 

Screen Shot 2018-07-21 at 2.42.54 PM.pngScreen Shot 2018-07-21 at 2.43.16 PM.png

Message 9 of 17
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ALL snad cases now automatically found for the buyer, admitted by reps and leadership

 

 

And of course note the wording on the right "the buyer can always step in and ask us to help if they are not satisfied."    The devil is always in the details. Smiley Happy

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ALL snad cases now automatically found for the buyer, admitted by reps and leadership


@jacevoid wrote:

Well if you had "free returns" you could have omitted shipping from the refund as well as upto 50% of the sale price.

 

How would that work? Last time I received an item in a different condition, I called eBay and they told me the same thing they tell other sellers: You accepted the return so you have to issue a refund, no matter what condition it came back in. So apparently, unless things have changed, the whole "eBay will protect you if you received your item back damaged" is just another false promise.

 

Also, of course, no store out there accepts returns on new software that has been opened. Obviously, in today's world, the code is what matters, and anyone can open a package, steal the code, and I have no recourse. No, not even Amazon takes back new software that has been opened. Apparently eBay is now trying to attract all the frauds that were banned from Amazon.


Yes Well Said !!!    Man Wink

Message 11 of 17
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ALL snad cases now automatically found for the buyer, admitted by reps and leadership


@missjen831 wrote:

@jacevoid wrote:

Well if you had "free returns" you could have omitted shipping from the refund as well as upto 50% of the sale price.

 

How would that work? Last time I received an item in a different condition, I called eBay and they told me the same thing they tell other sellers: You accepted the return so you have to issue a refund, no matter what condition it came back in. So apparently, unless things have changed, the whole "eBay will protect you if you received your item back damaged" is just another false promise.

 

Also, of course, no store out there accepts returns on new software that has been opened. Obviously, in today's world, the code is what matters, and anyone can open a package, steal the code, and I have no recourse. No, not even Amazon takes back new software that has been opened. Apparently eBay is now trying to attract all the frauds that were banned from Amazon.


Do you read the seasonal seller updates? Ebay announced in the spring 2018 spring update that sellers who offer FREE returns can issue a refund up to 50% if the buyer returns the item in a different condition. If you don’t offer free returns then yes you do have to issue a full refund and report the buyer


Jen  that softwear is worthless and can't  be resold    .   All sellers should have same rights  to that policy if they do no free returns !  Also ebay bloody well know's not every item  is returnable and refundable I been told this by ebay's upper crust  folks running ebay . The same folks said  they know that  items  that health issues can't be refuned  and returned.    

Message 12 of 17
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ALL snad cases now automatically found for the buyer, admitted by reps and leadership


@carlmarxx wrote:

@missjen831 wrote:

@jacevoid wrote:

Well if you had "free returns" you could have omitted shipping from the refund as well as upto 50% of the sale price.

 

How would that work? Last time I received an item in a different condition, I called eBay and they told me the same thing they tell other sellers: You accepted the return so you have to issue a refund, no matter what condition it came back in. So apparently, unless things have changed, the whole "eBay will protect you if you received your item back damaged" is just another false promise.

 

Also, of course, no store out there accepts returns on new software that has been opened. Obviously, in today's world, the code is what matters, and anyone can open a package, steal the code, and I have no recourse. No, not even Amazon takes back new software that has been opened. Apparently eBay is now trying to attract all the frauds that were banned from Amazon.


Do you read the seasonal seller updates? Ebay announced in the spring 2018 spring update that sellers who offer FREE returns can issue a refund up to 50% if the buyer returns the item in a different condition. If you don’t offer free returns then yes you do have to issue a full refund and report the buyer


Jen  that softwear is worthless and can't  be resold    .   All sellers should have same rights  to that policy if they do no free returns !  Also ebay bloody well know's not every item  is returnable and refundable I been told this by ebay's upper crust  folks running ebay . The same folks said  they know that  items  that health issues can't be refuned  and returned.    


Carl you know that I know all that. And I agree with you. Maybe if enough sellers, who sell software, complain loud enough-maybe at the weekly chat? eBay will add software to the list of categories that allow a partial refund when the seller offers buyer-paid returns. Honestly you would think a “tech company” would have thought to include that category in the first place!



One life is all we have to live
Love is all we have to give

**Formerly known as MissJen316**
Message 13 of 17
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ALL snad cases now automatically found for the buyer, admitted by reps and leadership

I just wonder how long until someone sues eBay over this blatant fraud-enabling. The last time a lawsuit happened (2012), a judge dismissed the case (a seller tried to start a class-action suit because eBay was finding almost all cases in buyers' favor...judge said eBay can run their site anyway they want).

 

However, now, eBay is outright lying. First, they say if you ask them to "step in and help", they will review the facts and make a fair decision. Obviously ,that is untrue, since they now guarantee via a hidden policy that isn't spelled out anywhere you agreed to, that they will find in the buyer's favor 100% of the time, guaranteed.

 

Second, what does "seller protection" even mean anymore on the site? They trumpet that sellers are covered by seller protection, but in terms of what? Everything is found for buyers all the time, every time. Buyers have all flocked to SNAD abuse and don't even bother trying INR anymore since eBay rules in a seller's favor generally as long as tracking shows delivered.  There are hundreds of articles and videos showing how to scam sellers on eBay. eBay does not both having these articles removed (which they can do, btw). They just don't care. It looks like my answer is to migrate my business to another platform. I paid eBay 1500 in fees last month and I get nothing for it, just a slap in the face whenever one of their scam buyers pulls a fast one.

Message 14 of 17
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ALL snad cases now automatically found for the buyer, admitted by reps and leadership

Right now another one of eBay's pet scammers, straight from the return details:

 

"Reason for return
Doesn't work or defective
 
Comments
It is not the full version. Cannot do any editing."
 
Of course, the reality is that this particular title comes with a 30 day trial and you can do full editing etc whether you have the trial or activated version. Buyer hasn't responded to my messages, so much for eBay telling me to "work it out with the buyer", yet another scammer waiting till escalation day to steal the product key and get a full refund too. Another $125 down the toilet.
 
 Or the loser who emailed me asking if the used, 11 year old title I was selling for a mere $35 came with "tech support". Needless to say, he went on my BBL. The sort of buyers eBay is feverishly bringing to your doorstep.
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