$197 Postage Due on First Class Prepaid Ebay Label!!

[ibargain4u]

I've been a seller for many years and have had my share of returns; I've come to expect and accept that there are bad buyers who take advantage of and abuse ebay's return policies.  Some you have to accept as a loss.  But you have to pick your battles wisely to avoid too many defects on your account, which draws down your sales.   I also feel that with hard economic times upon us, the abuse is going to increase and we sellers have to learn how to best protect ourselves.

That said, this is a new one for me and I'm stumped.  Any help would be appreciated.

I sold a brand new, 4Ft Florescent Grow Lamp for $225; weighs 30 lbs, 48x32x4; cost to ship was $46 via FedEx.  Buyer is brand new to Ebay(joined same day as purchase); Tracking shows it was delivered on 10/1 at 5:25pm; at 12:27pm on 10/1, she sent a nasty message stating it was damaged, demanding I issue a refund AND send a new unit.  I can't tell if this is EST or PST, but either way this appears to have been sent before she received it?? 

Before I could respond, she started the return process and shipped it back on 10/2.  It appears the return was started/label printed at 6PM on 10/1 - so 35 minutes after receiving it;  keep in mind, this is a big item; who immediately opens and tests this kind of item that fast, right at dinner time?

On 10/5, I have a 'delivery attempt' notice for USPS on my door for postage due of $197.  This came from Michigan to California, sent on Friday, and arrived on Monday.  Pretty fast for an item that size.  So I went to the post office and saw that the label is an ebay prepaid label, but it is First Class Package Return Service!  It should be Priority Mail or Parcel I believe.

So now, I have two options:

1) I pay $197 to get my item and then issue a refund for $225, so buyer gets $225 and I lose $425

- OR,

2) Refuse the item; it gets returned to the buyer and I still have to refund the buyer $225.  Buyer gets my item (which probably works) and $225, costing me $425!!!  If this is a scam, the buyer is probably betting I wont accept the item because of the cost (and they are probably right!).  So they hit the jackpot.

The 1st Ebay rep initially said I could issue a refund thru Paypal and subtract the $197, upload proof of postage due, and it should be fine. Ok, great. Easy Peazy.

Then I realized because I was recently 'migrated' onto 'managed payments', now I cannot subtract the postage due.  After an hour on the phone with the next Ebay rep, it was suggested that I complain to USPS as to why they accepted FC postage for a Parcel and 'hopefully' they will waive the fees.  Sure...

What if I subtract 50% from the refund, the max allowed by Ebay?  I was told the buyer has to agree, otherwise, buyer can open a case and ebay will debit my account.  

Do I pay USPS, get my item and open a case? 99% of cases like that go to the buyer.  In the end, it costs me $425, but at least I have my item right?  I already have 2 cases decided in buyers favor (one I'm appealing), and more than three knocks me out of Top Rated Seller status, which I have noticed does boost my search results.

I have until 10/20 to take action before the time gets sent back to the buyer;  I can't say who is really at fault here with certainty, but the fact that the buyer was so nasty and so quickly started the return is a red flag for me.  In searching the address with their name, it doesn't match; the user is brand new with a user name of Brads-7478; there IS a Brad who lives at this address. There is no Sophia or anyone with the same last name.

Assuming the buyer is innocent in this, is USPS at fault for accepting this postage for an obviously heavy item?  Is Ebay at fault for not issuing the proper postage in the first place?

My gut tells me I'm getting scammed.  My brain tells me I'm getting screwed.

I hope Ebay is taking notice because this is not right.  As sellers, we need to feel like we are protected against theft and fraud, especially for high dollar cases like this.

But what should be my next step?  Any thoughts and suggestions are greatly appreciated.  

[dede394 · Accepted solution]

Let your post office know it's a Return Service label. No postage is ever due because the permit holder, eBay, is billed for the service, regardless the wrong class or weight: The proper postage is calculated and billed.

[duronboy]

These are not encouraging times to be a seller. Ugh. I'll be watching the outcome of this.

[dede394]

eBay explained here:

Thanks for the note. USPS returns service is supposed to only have postage charged to the account/permit holder (eBay). We dispense return labels via eBay.com returns flows at the weight/dims we gather from the item in a various ways (sometimes over or underestimated by our logic), and then charge the seller/buyer when that label is detected as used. We also settle up with USPS for each item individually based on the actual weight and dimensions of the item captured by USPS.

USPS documentation for this type of service use is here:

https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/505.htm#ep1225056

This section is the pertinent one...as the 'Customer' referred to is 'eBay', in this case:
3.6.4 Postage[1-27-19] Postage is calculated based on the weight of the parcel and zone. Customers must pay postage under a scan based payment program (604.12.0) and using an eVS/CAPS account.

[mr_lincoln]

@ibargain4u   I agree with @dede394  because eBay has negotiated special return rates with USPS and those rates would NOT be privy to the local Post Office.  Additionally, if it is an eBay Pre Paid label then there is NO Postage due, its already been paid per eBay's agreement with USPS.

I assume the package was insured and you will be able to process an insurance claim to recover the cost of the item so that will be a wash.  Your only real issue is resolving the postage due issue.  So in the end your loss will not be the $ 425 or so dollars.

I use Free Returns which means within the guidelines up to 50% of the original item price can be withheld as well as all the original Paid shipping plus you are protected against less than Positive Feedback.  However, until you can actually see the item there is little you can do.

You have the option to bring this up on eBay's Weekly Chat, which sadly is every Wed at 4 PM EST so you missed it for today but next week will be well within your refund window ... although I suspect the Buyer will try to contact eBay and demand their money ... so there is an  outside chance that eBay will close the claim on you while you are trying to noodle out the screw up on the pre-paid return postage label they issued the Buyer.

[mtgraves7984]

"My gut tells me I'm getting scammed.  My brain tells me I'm getting screwed."

@ibargain4u  ^^^ Been there. Done that. ^^^

The rare times I've requested Returns, I snuck mine into the bin (instead of seeing a postal worker) due to the 'nuance' with eBay Return labels. As printed, they always find their way home... plus, I don't have to pay at the counter; I assume shipping overages will be billed to the seller. It's never failed me and my refund just 'arrives'.

Obviously, with a grow light, that couldn't have been done. I don't have experience in it, but I am of the opinion that if this Return label 'nuance' was known by the postal worker, they'd scan it, it'd fly... and the paperwork would be handled later. If that is not how it works, I'd like to know that as a seller.

Sorry you're going through this, and I'm on the edge of my seat. Good luck.

[dirk12955]

I don't use fedex.

Would fedex deliver this item damaged, without making a note of it?    

What's Fedex liability if they damaged it?    

[dede394]

---

@dirk12955 wrote:

I don't use fedex.

Would fedex deliver this item damaged, without making a note of it?    

What's Fedex liability if they damaged it?    

---

None. Items don't get damaged until after the FedEx delivery.

[angwjea]

your biggest mistake was using fedx  . they hire some of the worst workers they can becouse there very cheap  . there drivers can hardly even function & if they  find the addresses and when they do it most likely is damaged  becouse they throw the packages around becouse they  hire stupid people. had fedx drivers try 3 different times trying to find my address only to destroy the package and return it  to sender  and there customer support at there local locations are clueless and cant even use a computer to enter a tracking number .   use ups or usps 

[netwizz760]

My FedEx driver is good.  Rarely any damage or delivery issues.  Heck, UPS is late more than they were years ago.  UPS used to be 100% reliable to be on time, BUT now they don’t damage anything *knocks on wood*.  UP used to beat the crud out of every package.

The best for safe ha doing is USPS.  Decades ago they were slow with useless tracking that would update two days after an item was delivered.   They have been doing good with tracking for at least 12 years BUT sometimes they mark things delivered before delivery, sometimes they mark delivered after delivery, sometimes they randomly deliver on Sunday, sometimes they don’t deliver at all,.., sometimes early... sometimes late.   That said, they are hands-down the best for not beating up packages.   They also are very reliable for not losing stuff in that it usually makes it or I have been lucky.   The problem with USPS is they don’t scan on pick-up.

The worst service is Amazon TBA ... if they miss a delivery, they simply NEVER re-attempt in 9 out of 10 cases.   It’s like, they find a garbage bin and dump everything they side not to deliver.   Then a few days later Amazon simply trying-sends I’d you call them out on their **bleep**.

Right now I like UPS the best.   The driver always stacks my boxes in a neat pile out of sight where they cannot be seen from the street.... He even re-stacks my FedEx, USPS,and Amazon, too.   If I ever see him, I a, going to slip him a tip

[ibargain4u]

Thank you very much for that info!  It took a little pushing and explaining because the manager wasn't familiar with the rules regarding 'return service'.  Intially, she said nope, I have to pay it.  But when I showed her USPS's own rules regarding this service, she changed her tune, said she will call me back and in the end everyone learned something.  No postage due!

Ebay, as the account holder with USPS, has an agreement to guarantee payment for all postage due, even if it was calculated incorreclty.  What Ebay charges us, the sellers, is between us and Ebay - not USPS.  

[ibargain4u]

Thank you for all of your advice, I really appreciate it!

After retrieving my item, with no postage due (yeah!), the package was definitely opened by the customer; and it was damaged, probably in shipping, it had several few dents and dings.  And it does not work. 

While I did reach out to buyer initially to ask for pics before she sent it back, she never replied.  But I'm guessing it was FedEx who damaged it.  I always buy extra insurance because it does happen.  And the one claim I had with FedEx, they paid quickly and without any hassle - same with USPS.  As long as you can show pictures to back up your claim, you should be good.  You just have to jump thru the hoops.

Because many of my items are oversized/heavier items, USPS is almost double what FedEx charges, so this is why I use FedEx; and I very rarely have any delivery issues - and now that Ebay offers UPS as a shipping option, I'm starting to use them as well.  It's important to take lots of pics before you send, so when things happen, you have proof to show before vs after.  I've learned, its all about building your case.

Coincidentally, I had another recent case, for which I filed an appeal with Ebay for $125 because the buyer returned a different item to me, claiming it didn't work; initially, Ebay sided with the buyer and refunded their money, but after showing pics and filing a police report, they immediately changed the decision in my favor and paid my funds back! This happened last night, within 5 minutes of getting the call from the Post Office manager that no postage was due.  Crazy, huh?

As for the damaged Grow Lamp, I'm going to file a claim with FedEx and keep my fingers crossed.  And the grow light included 8 lightbulbs, which I just searched and those sell for about $80.  Lol!

I hope my experience helps some folks!  It's all part of the game.

Good Luck Everyone and Keep on Keeping On!

[frodobagginskennedy]

I would be careful calling people "stupid" when you have issues with spelling and grammar.  Makes you look kind of silly.

[mr.tomany]

 You Look really Silly saying that

[iluvsup5]

Mail always delivers up to 6 hrs before it says we have it.  Because of internet connections in the mail truck some workers can't transmit delivery until the end of their route and their back at the office.  Middle of nowhere deliveries no internet connections.  I live in a midwest town of 70,000 people and this always happens with my packages. I get a package and can return it to my local drop off. Before it says it was delivered That's where the handheld time stamp comes in. However the other sounds like a mix up on the return charges.  I would start with talking with the actual carrier and find out how they got it.