eBay seller protection???

[fury57]

I’m a 25+ year eBay member. I recently sold an item that, when the buyer received it, he claimed I sent him an empty box. He demanded a refund\return. The buyer stated the box arrived fine, completely sealed. He just says I shipped an empty box. It’s stupid. I sent the item I had listed. I did not send an empty box.

But because my impression is that eBay doesn’t give a **bleep** about sellers, I’ll likely have to end up eating this. It’s not the first time. Unscrupulous buyers have learned that they can get most anything they want for free if they simply file a claim against the seller. eBay ALWAYS takes the side of the buyer. PROVE ME WRONG.

When it’s the sellers word vs the buyer’s, what has helped you overcome similar situations?

[ittybitnot]

@fury57 

Did your buyer actually file an eBay claim, or are they just 'demanding' a refund through messages at this point? 

[fury57]

He has officially requested a return through the eBay system.

[lamber9347]

This platform offers a money back guarantee to all buyers. Unless this is a buyer’s remorse type of return you will have to refund, or eBay will deduct it from your account. Your best bet is to refund, or you will also receive a defect on your selling account. There is no he said/she said on here. You cannot prove you actually did place anything in the box. You are always free to take the buyer to small claims court if the amount is worthwhile and you want to go through the hassles. Best of luck to you.... 

[dakotasnowshine]

IIWM I would still tell them to return the package and send them a label. I would also inform them that you are opening cases with the Postmaster and both local authorities and will be providing the buyer with the case documentation once the packaging has been returned or inspected at the buyer's local PO. This sometimes scares the scammer away. If they do not ship the package back you should win by default but your funds for the transaction will remain on hold for however long this takes. Could be 30 days or more.

Really not much you can do except abide by ebay rules. This is your best defense and chance at winning your case. Winning will depend on how the buyer responds with the process. 

Best.

[mtgraves7984]

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@fury57 wrote:

He has officially requested a return through the eBay system.

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@fury57 

Well, dang. I am sorry that you got a scrub buyer, but it sounds as if you did. We all empathize.

No, I don't see how you could win here. If you approve the Return (which you must for NAD), you'll have to pay return shipping to get back the empty box. Of course, you don't have to refund in full until it comes back to you.

Or, it might be a time to cut your losses and issue a full refund now. Your business, your call. Dang...

Now, regarding your last question, "When it’s the sellers word vs the buyer’s, what has helped you overcome similar situations?"... I'd advise that you revisit your Returns policy. You are TRS and one of the last seller protections is available to you, but you're not using it. Sellers who offer Free Returns or TRS who offer 30-Day (or better) Returns have the ability to reduce the amount of the (impending) full refund by up to as much as 50% if the item returned to you is different/de-valued than the item you sent.

I know that half doesn't make you whole, but it's one of the last seller protections left... I offer that you use it. Good luck.

[ittybitnot]

He has officially requested a return through the eBay system.  

@fury57 

Bad news is that the "empty box" claim is a not as described issue, and there is no eBay seller protection for not as described issues.  You will have to respond to the claim or eBay is going to refund the buyer from your proceeds anyway and award you the consequential dings and defects.    You may try sending the buyer something like this if you used USPS and the ship to address was NOT that of a freight forwarder:

Dear buyer, 

I am so sorry to hear your parcel arrived without the contents.  Since the package did contain your xxxx when it left here, I can only assume something happened to it along the way to you.  I know you would prefer to have your item, so I am going to do whatever I can to locate the contents. 

I have photos of the product that I will send to the proper USPS department for articles of this nature in hopes they can be found.  I will also file a claim on your behalf with the US Postal Inspectors.  They typically respond with a case number within 24 hours.  I will forward the case number to you so you can keep abreast of the investigation.  Is there a daytime phone number where you can be reached so they can arrange inspection of the tampered parcel?   

Sincerely, 
You

I used a similar correspondence a few years ago more than once.  You would be surprised how often the missing items are then by some miracle FOUND.  In one case the product was recovered in a snow drift, in someone else's back yard down the street from the buyer.  Now that was a total miracle since it hadn't even snowed there in many months.  

Of course this may not work, but worth a shot.  You got nothing to more to lose.  You are going to have to refund anyway, report the buyer, and do file the mail fraud case when it is time, and forward that case number.   Good luck to you.  

[aprilmoviebuf2000]

You will need to respond to the return case in some way, otherwise you will earn a defect.

If it were me, I would respond by approving the return in which case the buyer will be issued a return label at your expense if they use it.  Why would I require a return for a supposed empty box, you may ask?  
Because to me, it's a matter of principle.  The buyer is already demanding a refund before you even respond to the case.  They are counting on you to just gift them with a free item.  They've probably done it before.
If you respond to the case by approving the return rather than just refund without return, the buyer will probably kick and scream.  That's fine.  There is a chance they just won't use the return label, and there's a chance they will return an empty box.  Either way, that is a chance I would be willing to take.  I have done refunds without return before, and swore I will never do it again.  Let them work for it.  

[meme6253]

I Had a customer open a claim on a $115.00 Dollar item,Claiming they never ordered it, His credit card Co. sided with him But Ebay backed me up on this one with seller protection!

[dnasilver]

Well the shipper has the weight and if the seller got a receipt the weight is on that. If it shows more than what the box weighs that would prove something was inside. It would prove something was placed in the box. That is pretty basic math to prove.

[sapphire_studio]

Yeah I really like what a previous poster wrote about telling the buyer you are filing a case with the postmaster to try to scare him. Also tell him that you have proof (from whoever you shipped it through) of the weight that the package was when they received it and that you can hopefully get the police involved because USPS must have stolen it. ( These can just be empty threats but hopefully he believes you and just closes his request.

Side note: I was actually an Ebay buyer who received a package that was supposed to have $500 worth of silver and the box was slit and empty.  In order for me to get my refund from eBay they required me to file a police report which I did.   A couple weeks after speaking to the police officer she called me back and updated me. She told me it was the 1st case she had ever seen the postmaster general get actively involved in because they had proof that the seller had shipped a package that weighed a lot and that somewhere in the middle of transport the weight suddenly dropped and so they knew a usps worker had stolen it.

[lamber9347]

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@dnasilver wrote:

Well the shipper has the weight and if the seller got a receipt the weight is on that. If it shows more than what the box weighs that would prove something was inside. It would prove something was placed in the box. That is pretty basic math to prove.

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As I wrote, the OP can always take the buyer to small claims court, where such evidence would actually be viewed, discussed and judged upon. No one at eBay will review any of those receipts with or without weight on them, but a court will.... 

[katzrul15]

@fury57 

I would report your Buyer from the Transaction view if you think this is Fraud.

I would also BBL.

I would file with USPS ( start live with your Postmaster, ask for assistance).

We did that - our Postmaster called the Postmaster of the Buyer.  Had PO talk to route guy, who stated our box was indeed big, oversized and heavy when he delivered and they signed for it. 

Our Postmaster sent us an email we used with e-Bay.  We accepted tge return, shared the email and when a box of stuffed papers arrived back, we deducted 50% as it was not as described as we are TRS.

Yes, we ate 50%.  But we reported him for Fraud, PO flagged that addtess and we wrote off 50%.

If you are TRS, absolutely require that return.  And meet with your Postmaster live to tackle.

Good luck!

[trbl13]

If you have your Original USPS Mailing Receipt from when you Sent the Package..

it should show the EXACT WEIGHT of the Parcel...

I would use that Receipt to show eBay and the Buyer that you DID Ship the item..NOT an empty Box..

which would Weigh Much Less....I have used that method in the past to defeat

False Claims like this one...Good Luck.

[d-eberly]

I know this scam and all of the advice here so far is valid.  Reporting to the Post Office is vital as it could be mail fraud.  And letting the buyer know a case will be opened and asking for a return is critical also.  I'd also have a conversation with ebay to document this issue on your account as you are a long time seller.

BUT - ebay seems to be closely in touch with the PO when we are billed for PO claims that the box weighed more than we originally paid through ebay labels. Somehow it seems to me that they should provide additional back up and coverage on these issues as they would have access to what the PO thinks the box weighed once shipped. I'm pretty sure that 99.999999999% of the sellers of over 10 years here do NOT ship empty boxes. Ever.