eBay's official stance on 3rd party freight forwarding?

[bro.us.5iedd7mtn]

I was trying to google this but couldn't find much results. What is eBay's official stance on buyers who use third party freight forwarding services? 

I do not want to ship to these services because it makes the delivery of the item essentially a black box. The second it reaches the US location, it is out of my hands. If it gets damaged or disappears in international transit I have no idea who to contact to get it resolved. And if it does get damaged, and I have to file for insurance, why should it be USPS's financial responsibility to cover the damage if it likely occurred during unsupported international transit?

I recently cancelled an order when I saw that the buyer ordered using one of these forwarding services (he also had an outrageous list of demands of how I should pack the item), and I am getting a lot of pushback from him for doing so. I am guessing I will get a defect on my account for this.

Am I wrong here? I think as a seller it should be my choice whether or not I take on this additional risk, and eBay should not require sellers to indulge customers who use unofficial shipping services. 

[12345jamesstamps]

I haven't had any problems with 'freight forward' shipping.

We are required to ship what is sold...otherwise we might get a 'ding'.

I take a photo of package with postage on it and send it to buyer in a friendly email.

I also notify buyer that I know it is going to an USA address and then on to (country) and will require additional time for shipping. And I date that in the email.

Usually, contacting the buyer in a friendly email is all it takes.

The problem lies in 'shipping time' of 'freight forward' where many buyers do not understand it takes maybe an extra week or two for item to get to them.

I think that is the main problem with 'freight forward'...not enough of time for shipping from USA to another country.

[mr_lincoln]

Hi @bro.us.5iedd7mtn 

-When PayPal was the payment processor they had a setting to block foreign funding sources which would address the issue.  eBay has chosen NOT to set that up with their current Payment Processor, Adyen, which by the way is ranked like 7th in the world where PayPal is #1 ... so we didn't even get a top 5 pick.

-Sellers are ONLY responsible to the US address for damage or other claims.  But, one risk (which I experienced) was the carrier NOT scanning the package delivered to the forwarding company. In that case a Buyer can file an INR claim and win.  That is one of the drawbacks to the system

-It is certainly your choice to cancel transactions for the reason Problem with address if you do not want to sell internationally to buyers who have found a loophole to get items shipped to them outside the US ... 

[bro.us.5iedd7mtn]

This is exactly my problem, if the user claims they did not receive the item, or it is damaged, I am essentially out of pocket the cost of the item. USPS is not responsible for something they didn't ship.

I cancelled the item with the "problem with address" and predictably the user left me a negative feedback. Using a loophole to buy something, and then being upset that the seller doesn't want to acquiesce, really mature of them. 

[klhmdg]

@bro.us.5iedd7mtn    You are only responsible to get it to the freight forwarder.

Once it shows delivered to the FF, you are done.

At any time if USPS doesnt show delivered, not just to a FF, you as the seller are responsible.

I have never had an issue with a FF. Also dont bother with photos, eBay doesnt look at them.

Canceling with "problem with address" can get you a defect on your account AND the buyer could leave negative FB.

If the buyer pays, ship the item. 

[luckythewinner · Accepted solution]

What is eBay's official stance on buyers who use third party freight forwarding services?

One official stance is that when a buyer uses a freight forwarding service, you are protected from "didn't receive an item" claims and "does not match listing" claims.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

So by inference, there does not seem to be policy prohibiting a freight forwarding service.

[12345jamesstamps]

'problem with address'...with artificial intelligence now in play doing this might get you a 'ding'.

I refunded a buyer because of a partial damage item after shipping...and got a 'out of stock' ding'.

I was told to fight the 'ding'...I didn't because I feel it might be a waste of time or using up too much time to try to remove it.

'negative feedback'...yes...most buyers will do the negative feedback if you cancel the sale.

So I just ship out the item freight forward using all my safeguards as mentioned before.

[kensgiftshop]

If it was a $1000 phone or laptop, I might be worried, but not on a $20 pencil.

I've shipped to many freight forwarders and haven't had any problems.

[bro.us.5iedd7mtn]

It's out of principle, last year I sold a $500 antique (110 year old) pen and had it shipped to one of these freight forwarders. It was a delicate item and I spent weeks worrying about if it reached the destination or was damaged. I never heard back from the buyer or saw any feedbacks but I did not enjoy the experience.

I do this as a hobby on the side, I am not a store. So if it's more trouble than it's worth, then I won't do it. I guess that makes me a bad seller and I'll take the bad feedback on the chin. 

[mr_lincoln]

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@bro.us.5iedd7mtn wrote:

This is exactly my problem, if the user claims they did not receive the item, or it is damaged, I am essentially out of pocket the cost of the item. USPS is not responsible for something they didn't ship.

I cancelled the item with the "problem with address" and predictably the user left me a negative feedback. Using a loophole to buy something, and then being upset that the seller doesn't want to acquiesce, really mature of them. 

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@bro.us.5iedd7mtn 

You have no Negative Feedback on this account ID ... do you have more than one Selling account?

[bro.us.5iedd7mtn]

No just the one, I contacted eBay and explained the situation to them so they removed the negative feedback. They were able to see my messages with the buyer and saw that the feedback was not legitimate.

The buyer claimed that I cancelled his order with no warning and no communication which was not true. I told him several times why I was uncomfortable with sending to a third party shipper and told him that I would even be willing to change my shipping settings and ship directly to him if he so desired (I don't usually offer this), I just can't do the freight.

[mr_lincoln]

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@luckythewinner wrote:

What is eBay's official stance on buyers who use third party freight forwarding services?

One official stance is that when a buyer uses a freight forwarding service, you are protected from "didn't receive an item" claims and "does not match listing" claims.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

So by inference, there does not seem to be policy prohibiting a freight forwarding service.

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@luckythewinner 

With regards to INR claims the Seller protection only applies if tracking shows that the item was delivered to the forwarding company, not when tracking does not show it was delivered.  I had this happen, the Buyer filed an INR claim and tracking was never updated showing the forwarder received the item.  Fortunately, I called the forwarder on day 3 of the INR claim and they confirmed that they had received the item, shipped it to the Buyer AND they had confirmed delivery.  I messaged the Buyer with this info and asked them to cancel the INR claim ... fortunately they did, otherwise I would have been out $ 210.00.

[mr_lincoln]

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@bro.us.5iedd7mtn wrote:

No just the one, I contacted eBay and explained the situation to them so they removed the negative feedback. They were able to see my messages with the buyer and saw that the feedback was not legitimate.

The buyer claimed that I cancelled his order with no warning and no communication which was not true. I told him several times why I was uncomfortable with sending to a third party shipper and told him that I would even be willing to change my shipping settings and ship directly to him if he so desired (I don't usually offer this), I just can't do the freight.

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@bro.us.5iedd7mtn 

I am glad you got the FB removed and to be honest, in a situation like this less than Positive FB should not be allowed OR should be automatically blocked when an international Buyer uses a forwarding company to circumvent a Seller's setting that they do not ship internationally.  

While I have sold to quite a few foreign Buyers over the years most sales went to Europe or Asia.  In the last year however more are going to Latin American companies and the one I had problems with went through Miami ... I know other Sellers have had the same issue, no scans for delivered packages at the forwarding company.  My beef is this, why should Sellers be on the hook for lazy or incompetent USPS carriers in that area who don't do their jobs?

[a_c_green]

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

Adyen, which by the way is ranked like 7th in the world where PayPal is #1 ... so we didn't even get a top 5 pick. 

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Where exactly does this line come from? Who was ranking payment processors, and Adyen was ranked 7th on the basis of what? The last time I tried to find the source of this statistic (which gets batted around here occasionally), I don't recall that the trail led anywhere.

Regarding proof of delivery, you are correct that there have been issues with the Miami/Doral addresses not getting scanned as Delivered, though cancelling due to Problem with Address is not a valid option if the address itself is actually valid.

[bro.us.5iedd7mtn]

Ugh, entirely separate from the international shipping thing but I am dealing with this exact problem right now as well. I shipped out an item around two weeks ago, it was supposed to be delivered last week, and it has been stuck on "awaiting delivery" since then. 

The buyer hasn't contacted me and I strongly suspect they received the package, but even so I've called USPS to create a claim. They've since closed it telling me they couldn't find the package at the local post office and told me to create a separate missing mail claim, and I just went ahead and did that as well.

This is one of the reasons I don't like the third party mail forwarders. I actually take a lot of pride in providing good service. I don't sell a lot of stuff, so I pay a lot of attention to what I do sell, and that includes monitoring tracking and heading off issues before a buyer even complains. When a buyer chooses to use an unofficial forwarding service, I can't do that - the packages just disappear after they reach the warehouses and I have no control over the rest of the transit.

I'll spend some time thinking about this and maybe reconsider for future sales, maybe I am too harsh in regards to the freight forwarding companies and to this buyer.