eBay let buyer return an item and it was sent to a wrong address and it was lost!

[roy8765]

Around a month ago, I sold a used laptop on eBay, clearly mentioning in the item description that the battery was not good and it could hold only about half an hour of charge (to the best of my knowlege) and that returns were not accepted.  The buyer claimed that the battery was bad and requested a return which I declined.  However, eBay let the buyer return it and they even provided a return address to him which was 11 years old without asking me first and the laptop was sent to a wrong address.  I never received the laptop and for all practical purposes, the ~$250 laptop is lost!  I appealed eBay's decision multiple times and they always rejected my appeal and forced me to fully refund the buyer plus shipping.  Eventually I asked for their legal department and I'm considering suing eBay in a small claims court.  What are my options and chances of success here?  Any advice from the community and the sellers who have been in this situation?

This is a pretty clear mess up on eBay's part....  They turned a long time customer into an active enemy!  Any lawyers who would like to take this case on my behalf?

[designforyou]

I'm sure if eBay is found guilty of misconduct in this forced return case, it doesn't matter that I didn't have an updated return address. Any way they will have to reimburse my full expenses (~$300) plus some. (Possibly a lot lot more than that!) This is a trouble that eBay has caused for itself by its incompetence. Trust me, I'm no naive person. If I know I have a good legal case I'll pursue it to the maximum extent possible under the law.

You have a small claims case.  An attorney is going to charge you much more than the laptop.  You say you are not naive, and insist you are right, no matter what other people here have said.  You have come here in the hopes of getting free legal advice, before you actually go see an attorney.  If you truly believe you have a case, why not go pay for an initial consult with an attorney?  Why are you conversing with people here since you are not naive, and could be spending time contacting lawyers?   And if you do go to court, and lets say per chance ebay wins the case, are you prepared to pay all of EBAY'S legal fees, court costs, filing fees??  

And as far as your address issue, when a claim is filed by a buyer, your name and address is right there on the claim.  You could have changed it before the buyer sent the item back. I'm guessing you do not use EBAY or Paypal discounted shipping labels, because you would have seen your incorrect address there also when you prepare to ship sold items.  

I wish you all the best with whatever you decide to do.

[roy8765]

Look, $300 is a lot of money for me to pass.  The buyer could ask for a return for any other reason under INAD but not the battery because it was clearly mentioned in the item description.  Therefore eBay didn’t have a just cause to let the buyer return the item due to the “No Returns” policy and they’re on the hook for my damages.

[roy8765]

Return address is different than seller address. It uses my up-to-date address for shipping labels.

[grayirongolf]

Consumer protection laws can’t be totally gutted by website terms: Contract clauses can’t restrict regulatory agencies like the Federal Trade from suing to enforce consumer protection laws.

[goodluckselling]

---

@roy8765 wrote:

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

It's sad that your address was never corrected after  your move of eleven years ago.

---

The real sad part is that eBay still got its fee on this "sale"! It amounts to robbery in broad daylight... 

---

The sad part is you think you are entitied to something because you made a mistake?  Life does not work that way and as you grow and have more experiences you will learn to accept your actions and move beyond name calling and false reports because your vanity can not handle the current situation.

You seem to not want to take any responsibility for your lack of understanding or actions, which indicates to me that you still have as lot of learning to do.

We have all been where you are now in some form or another.  We get it and we also have felt your pains but you have to get over it and move past it.  Accept your part and be done with it.

Good Luck Selling!

[readabouthorses]

---

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

---

@roy8765 wrote:
No, eBay deceived me by the name "No Returns Accepted" policy. They should have said "Limited Returns and Refund" policy. Also, Used doesn't mean perfect. If I mention the battery is bad, they buyer should not be able to return it because the battery was bad and that's why I declined!

---

The definition of used, if you check the listing and use the drop down provided, says the item is working.  If it is not working, then it should be listed under for parts/not working.

---

But the Condition also includes this so my question would be "did the buyer actually read the listing description to look for the info on the battery?

See the seller's listing for full details and description of any imperfections

If I had seen that listing I would have read the description and then asked the seller questions about the condition of the battery if I didn't understand what was in the description.

I think every Condition has that statement to check the listing for full details.

[readabouthorses · Accepted solution]

---

@yuzuha wrote:

---

@roy8765 wrote:

So, are you saying that a Used laptop is supposed to have a 100% capacity (i.e. new) battery even if it is mentioned otherwise in its item description?! And how can it possibly be "Item Not As Described"? Show me where in MBG there's such a rule or clause. I want a precise link. Don't make rules up please! This is not even logical. I'm not new to eBay.

---

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/listings/creating-managing-listings/item-conditions-category?id=47...

Right there.  More precisely, "Used: An item that has been used previously. The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but is fully operational and functions as intended."

---

If you are going to post the item condition then post it all. You left out a very important part of it:

Used: An item that has been used previously. The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but is fully operational and functions as intended. This item may be a floor model or store return that has been used. See the seller's listing for full details and description of any imperfections.

[goodluckselling]

---

@roy8765 wrote:
You didn't answer my question: Is a Used laptop supposed to have a 100% capacity (i.e. new) battery even if it is clearly mentioned otherwise in its item description?! The buyer got exactly what was described and what he'd ordered, yet he was allowed to return it.

I'm sure if eBay is found guilty of misconduct in this forced return case, it doesn't matter that I didn't have an updated return address. Any way they will have to reimburse my full expenses (~$300) plus some. (Possibly a lot lot more than that!) This is a trouble that eBay has caused for itself by its incompetence. Trust me, I'm no naive person. If I know I have a good legal case I'll pursue it to the maximum extent possible under the law.

---

It sounds like you are now trying to dig in and find some kind of loophole that will validate your listing practices.  We have said many times in this thread that you actually did a good desacription.  You were describing the item well in the description.  Nothing you did here was wrong.

A condition is an indicator of value

• New
•  used
• for parts only

All these conditions would have different values to this item.  When you take the actual product a portable laptop with a dead battery, does not make it very useable and creates less value. 

eBay guarantees buyers they will get what they paid for or there money back. eBay can only follow the path for the transaction, and the only reason I can see for them to allow the return is that the reason for the return request was a faulty part. 

Lots of laptops are listed as used and have used batteries, and you can assume a lot of returns happen for them as well when the battery is basically useless.  For batteries with longer life still in them you can also assume buyers will be less likely to return them.  You can find laptop batteries here at eBay for a very small investments and included it in your listing and raised the price to accomodate the extra cost.

When you want to sell lets say a car you probably would not sell it with 4 flat tires?  you would repair the tires and add that cost to your price to show value.

Here is how the process works. 

• Buyers opens a request, which allows the buyer and sellers to find a solution before eBay does anything.  You have the opportunity to work directly with your buyer.  All eBay is doing is telling you a buyer has an issue and to please communicate with them to find a solution.
• Seller refuses the return request and the request then gets escalates into a case.
• When it becomes a case eBay then steps in and reviews all the info and makes a determination for both parties.
• You gave eBay permission to do this when you clicked the submit listings button.
• Because of your no returns policy, eBay required the item to be returned under the money back guarantee because of an error in your listings before the buyer got a refund.  If you has a return policy in place and still refused the return eBay would have just refunded the buyer without any return required.
• Once the returned item shows delivered ebay can manually refund the buyer or you can do the right thing and do it your self
• Unfortunately your address was an older one so you did not get the item back and the buyer did get a refund.

Good Luck Selling!

[roy8765]

Why does everyone say I made a mistake? It’s like I’m talking to an army of eBay representatives here! I made an accurate and honest full disclosure of the deteriorated condition of the battery in my listing. It’s like selling a car with flat tires. You can certainly do that and buyers are willing to pay less for it. No one can say I want to return it because of the flat tires, although they can return it for example if the engine is burned and you didn’t disclose that. This is definitely a gray area and is not as simple as people here are trying to make me believe. I’m actually very surprised that more sellers don’t agree with me here. I suspect many of the active responders here have some affiliation with eBay.

[goodluckselling]

---

@roy8765 wrote:
Why does everyone say I made a mistake? It’s like I’m talking to an army of eBay representatives here! I made an accurate and honest full disclosure of the deteriorated condition of the battery in my listing. It’s like selling a car with flat tires. You can certainly do that and buyers are willing to pay less for it. No one can say I want to return it because of the flat tires, although they can return it for example if the engine is burned and you didn’t disclose that. This is definitely a gray area and is not as simple as people here are trying to make me believe. I’m actually very surprised that more sellers don’t agree with me here. I suspect many of the active responders here have some affiliation with eBay.

---

The only grey area is your refusal to learn and understand the condition policy which was your mistake.

Granted not all used laptops with used batteries get returned.  You had opportunities to resolve the issue with your buyer.

• You could have replaced the dead battery before you sold it
• You could have purchase one here at ebay and sent it to the buyer
• You could have given a partial refund so they can buy a useable battery.

I do not think you are intentionally a bad seller.  I just think you are not up to date with how eBay works and that is understandable with your on and off selling for the past several years as you mentioned.

I do think you are presenting a bad example with your

• name calling
• bad mouthing
• unable to accept any responsibilty
• unable to read and or understand the policies we have outlined for you dozens of times in this thread.

I hate it that you lost this and when something like this happens to me I am also upset.  You just have to learn from it and move on.  Better transactions are out there and with this new knowledge you can thrive again.

Good Luck Selling!

[dilo-8873]

Roy,

I don’t assume myself to be as knowledgeable as the responders here are, but I think that what they are trying to tell you is that these are the policies (rules) - which doesn’t necessarily mean that they, or some, are in agreement with them, just that it is what it is - that’s all.

[roy8765]

I understand what they’re saying, but the faulty battery was already priced in the laptop.  The buyer could have bought another laptop that didn’t have this issue.  Why did I have to pay AGAIN for that defect?  Why eBay let the buyer to return it based on a disclosed issue?  I’m done selling on eBay ever again.  I’m just trying to recover my damages here and help the other sellers in my situation.

[itsjustasprain]

@roy8765 wrote:

I’m just trying to recover my damages here

Does the tracking show that the laptop has been delivered to the old address?

What have you done about contacting the people at that old address?

[1966co_1]

---

@roy8765 wrote:
You didn't answer my question: Is a Used laptop supposed to have a 100% capacity (i.e. new) battery even if it is clearly mentioned otherwise in its item description?! The buyer got exactly what was described and what he'd ordered, yet he was allowed to return it.

I'm sure if eBay is found guilty of misconduct in this forced return case, it doesn't matter that I didn't have an updated return address. Any way they will have to reimburse my full expenses (~$300) plus some. (Possibly a lot lot more than that!) This is a trouble that eBay has caused for itself by its incompetence. Trust me, I'm no naive person. If I know I have a good legal case I'll pursue it to the maximum extent possible under the law.

---

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behaviour-policies/user-agreement?id=4259#15.%20Release

You really need to read section 15 through 17.

[jason_incognito]

the listing description is in many ways the equivilant of fine print.