eBay, How can I protect myself from freight forwarding buyers?

[chasearooauctions]

Once again, a freight forward buyer claims damage but can't return the item after using a U.S. ship-to address to have the item shipped overseas. These buyers are not even covered under eBay's money-back guarantee, but I am at the mercy of selling to them and then having them claim damage when there was no damage during picture taking or before shipping. If the item is purchased and I cancel the sale, the FF buyer can leave negative. If I ship the item and they claim damage, I can't help them even though I offer free 30-day returns. This problem ONLY exists with these freight forward buyers and eBay refuses to support top-rated sellers from the negative feedback abuse.  I even state in my listing that if you are an overseas buyer DO NOT PURCHASE unless you can return the item. eBay won't even support that statement and allows the abuse to continue

[gator08041971]

My solution.  I just don't do international sales at all.  Maybe that's a head-in-the-sand approach, but no one said I had to sell to countries outside the US either.

Even though I block all those countries, there are still buyers (especially from South America) that keep trying.  And none of them usually pay when they win, and then I have to block, and move on.  98% of my block list are all from other countries, because they can't read.  I will block any bidders that show they are from a country other than the U.S.

Sometimes one or two sneak through and still get an item and I still ship as long as its a US address, but I haven't had to do this for awhile now, though they keep trying.

[fashunu4eeuh]

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@chasearooauctions wrote:

The problem is, that they don't open a return because the cost to return to the U.S. is too expensive.  The free return only covers from their ship to address (freight forward) back to me. eBay won't remove the negative feedback. Yet, if they were in the U.S. or used eBay international shipping, they are covered. It's a HUGE gap that eBay has no interest in solving. 

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Had a couple of thoughts while trying to understand the sequence of events.

If the buyer opens a NAD case, one has only to quote the written policy in response. Your case notes would state that the buyer is ineligible for the MBG as it does not cover forwarded material.

But as stated, if the buyer is not opening a return case, then what injurious actions were taken that you object to? Just the negative feedback?

 You are a quite successful long-time seller. A Top Rated Seller. So i say this with respect—you have but one single negative feedback out of a veritable ocean of 400+ green positives. No future buyer will give that negative review a second look, nor give it any credence.

As far as i can tell, you have not been dealt a cunning blow, or received an injury to your account. Feedback has no bearing on a seller’s metrics. All in all, this matter is a small one, with no teeth.  In the grand scheme of things, it does not appear worthy of your valuable attention. 

“…my 30-day return won't help him [the buyer] because he lied and stated his shipping address is in Deleware.” 

A final word: Using a freight forwarder is not considered by eBay to be an effort to mislead, or lie, about the buyer’s mailing address. Buyers often have multiple mailing addresses different than their international home base. That is allowed. Many shoppers have gifts sent directly to loved ones.

Absolutely nothing nefarious going on.

Perhaps eBay has no interest in correcting such an  issue because they do not consider it to be a problem.

Wish you much continued success.

[onefootflippers]

It isn't as common as it used to be, but some freight forward customers claim that every item they receive is damaged because some sellers will give them their money back. They are often making these claims before they ever even get the item. Most freight forward customers build up a bunch of purchases that all get consolidated into one package, they aren't having the packages forwarded one at a time.

My response to such a customer would be. "Was delivered undamaged to your agent, any claim you have is with them." 

If they actually file a return, provide your own label, buy it through pirateship and make sure it is from the forwarder to you. Watch the label carefully so you can cancel it later as it will never be used.

[chasearooauctions]

USPS has a message on their site regarding items delivered to a third party for shipping. They scan them but won't declare delivered (even though they are because the item has not reached its final destination. However, eBay (maybe not all CS) is aware that USPS does this. IU had a case closed in my favor by an overseas buyer who claimed that the item didn't arrive, when in fact its destination was confirmed at his freight forward company. My item was shipped UPS. My buyer claimed damaged. I'm covered with UPS insurance, but once that freight forward company gets it, no one is covered and I'm left vulnerable to negative feedback if it arrives damaged. 

[chasearooauctions]

You can't block these buyers that use a U.S. freight forward service.  It's a U.S. shipping address. 

[chasearooauctions]

I wonder why eBay will not cover freight forward buyers with money-back guarantee?

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

[retro_entertainment_collectibles]

I believe there is also the problem of watchers, you can send an offer then after the fact you find out there are out of country and as a seller you'd no idea.

[gator08041971]

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@chasearooauctions wrote:

You can't block these buyers that use a U.S. freight forward service.  It's a U.S. shipping address. 

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Yes I most certainly can.  But only after they attempt to bid.  I did one today.  I have this described in my listings that bidders that are shown to be from a country other than the US may get blocked.

My auto block settings catches a lot of them too. But those are only going to be ones that have an address outside the US, or they have too many non-payment strikes, or meet other undesirable criteria.

But I block them because most of them never pay when they win.  And I don't have time for that non-sense.  I already have relisted an item now 3 times in the past 3 weeks due to this very scenario.  You can see the first two in my sold listings.

[gator08041971]

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@retro_entertainment_collectibles wrote:

I believe there is also the problem of watchers, you can send an offer then after the fact you find out there are out of country and as a seller you'd no idea.

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Now that's true.  You bring up a good point.  I would be unable to block those if I wanted to.  And that would be unfortunate for me, especially if they don't pay.

However, I think they would be a bit more likely to pay, if you have buy it now set to require payment vs auctions.

Ugh.  Ebay should set the country requirement to require both the buyer's physical address and their mailing address to be in the same country.  If both aren't in the same country, tough cookies.   Or allow a seller to make an exception on request, rather than blindly let anyone bid as long as they have a forwarder.

Again, not knocking the forwarding thing itself, as I know there are good reasons for it, but as usual, there are bad apples everywhere.

[inhawaii · Accepted solution]

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@chasearooauctions wrote:

I have no problem with it reaching its U.S. destination, but from there, it forwards to Guatemala. On the way, it gets damaged, the buyer in Guatemala won't return it because he won't pay the price and my 30-day return won't help him because he lied and stated his shipping address is in Deleware. So, he leaves negative feedback and eBay won't remove it even though it is 100% out of my control.

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So basically...

Freight forwarder sale:  You don't have to worry about returns but you might get a negative feedback.

Non-freight forwarder sale: You do have to worry about returns and you can still get a negative feedback. 

[toomuchstuffagain35]

USPS has a message on their site regarding items delivered to a third party for shipping. They scan them but won't declare delivered (even though they are because the item has not reached its final destination.

Do you have a link to that, because how would USPS know that? THEIR job is to deliver it to the address on the label. Period.

[zamo-zuan]

You can't.

The best you could do is just follow eBay policy and provide a label to the address you shipped to. If you're lucky, they will admit or expose the fact that they are using a forwarder. At which point you could inform them that doing so violates their eBay MBG, and that based on eBay policy you can provide a label only to the address on file. 

At least if they admit the truth, you will be protected from any further issues. 

[monster-deals]

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@chasearooauctions wrote:

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Your protection is the buyer has opted themselves out of the MBG

[zamo-zuan]

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@monster-deals wrote:

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@chasearooauctions wrote:

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Your protection is the buyer has opted themselves out of the MBG

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Only if they admit it. It used to be enough that their address could be confirmed. Now they have to explicitly admit it. 

[onefootflippers]

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@zamo-zuan wrote:

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@monster-deals wrote:

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@chasearooauctions wrote:

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Your protection is the buyer has opted themselves out of the MBG

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Only if they admit it. It used to be enough that their address could be confirmed. Now they have to explicitly admit it. 

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The forwarders are not going to return the items for them, so qualifying for the MBG is academic at best. Most of the time the return window is closed before the customer getting the forwarded order even gets the item, as they usually build up many purchases that are then shipped over in the slowest and cheapest method possible.