eBay Does Not Support You as a Seller - You lose money as a seller

[p_d_wolff]

So here is the situation. I sold a phone on eBay that was essentially new. I listed as used as required and also sold it with a charger and case. It sold to someone within a few days. I normally have a 1 or 2 day handling time as I work and cannot always get it to the post office super fast. I was home and able to get this boxed and ready to go the very first day. I had used this phone for a few weeks making sure my apps were transferred to my new phone (I have had my new phone for a few months as it came with my carrier promo). I needed to make sure the apps all had logins, etc before I reset the phone. This phone was perfect in every way, barely used as I had to buy it to replace my previous phone that ended up in a lake. It has a great battery (turned off, it lasted a couple weeks and then was at 87% when I turned it back on) and no problems. Even after resetting, I turned it on a couple times to make sure it was good to go for sale. Nothing wrong with it, in fact, I am 100% confident in this item working perfectly unless damaged in shipping.

The buyer sends me a message and says they are moving, could I send the phone to another address and send them the tracking number. I agreed and setup the shipping to this new address. I packaged it and got it to the post office right away. When I get back, there is a message "Is it shipped yet?" I thought that was odd. I deal in IT and some scammers often say strange things like this. It made me curious, but it was shipped so I gave them the tracking number and said it was shipped.

So it showed the buyer received the phone the day after Thanksgiving. That night, they said it did not power on made a return case with eBay. The supplied an image, but it was literally a black jpg. No phone image, no nothing... black square. I messaged buyer and said the phone should be fine. I said it powered up without issues before sending. Was it damaged in shipping? Were they pressing the power for a couple seconds as needed on S21. I even recommended they take it to a store and have someone check. They never respond.

I checked to see where the package was shipped and it was USA2Georgia address at 8 McCullough Dr Unit U246xx New Castle DE 19720. (redacted unit) I found out this is a service that forwards packages to Georgia (Russia). Also, the buyer had changed their name from biwilxxx8637 (0) to migxxxlas0 (redacted each acct). 

I then called eBay and told them what seemed to be happening. I had concerns that I was not going to get the same phone back, or maybe it was damaged on purpose, etc. They said the process is that I send the label for return and then when I get the phone back I can check it and dispute the return if needed. I send a return label and then when I get it, I have a couple days to review the return and make sure all is ok. Or I can dispute the return. I agreed to this as it seemed fair. I had pictures of the IMEI, so they could not return a different phone, etc. I figured I was getting scammed somehow, but the process seemed good. Or at least it is should have been good, but if you think they are on your side, you're 100% wrong. Buyer apparently can do whatever they please to rip you off.

Here is what happened next. I sent that return label (Through eBay and the return process - I had to pay for it of course) right after speaking with eBay. I checked every other day or so to see if the tracking number showed anything and it showed not shipped every time I checked. Until Dec 7th. On December 7th, I get a message from eBay that my case is closed.  Here is the message:

"We reviewed this case and decided to issue the buyer a full refund.

We received tracking information from the buyer that shows successful delivery.

A refund of US $314.75 was issued on Dec 7, 2022 to the buyer. The refund includes the purchase price plus original shipping. The refund amount will be recovered from you by eBay."

I called eBay right away (last night) and inquired on why they closed the case and I had not received the phone, no notice of the return, nothing. I also told them I did some research and they originally had an address that went to onex.ru and changed it to the usa2georgia address - BOTH are forwarding services. If a package is forwarded, HOW CAN IT BE POWERED ON? eBay does not care. The buyer called them with their OWN tracking label to prove delivery. I don't know what scam that is, but I never received the phone and it is unlikely anyone did since I live on 8 acres and my neighbors are far away. We have been getting packages (xmas) and mail constantly every day without issues. So eBay said they entered a dispute and someone would call me in 24 hours. I said ok, thanks.

Today, no call. I get an email: 

"Thanks for contacting eBay about the "Samsung Galaxy S21" that you recently sold to "xxxxxxx". I reviewed your email, and I understand that you have not received the item back. Don’t worry; I'll take this opportunity to help you further.

Before I proceed, I acknowledge the fact that you are putting your honest effort in order to comply with eBay policies and to maintain a good reputation for your account. I was also delighted to discover that you have maintained a huge percentage of positive feedback score which only proves that you have been a responsible eBay member as majority of your trading partners are stating how great you were as a seller, how smooth the transactions went through and how prompt you are in responding to their concern.

After reviewing your case, I see that the buyer was able to provide us with tracking number 9400111206213951229848 which shows the item was returned to your address. Because of this confirmed tracking information, we decided to retain the original decision.

We realize that you had the best of intentions to work things out with the buyer and its show you approved the return request. I understand that you did not receive the item but the tracking number 9400111206213951229848 shows delivered to your return address, I hope you understand that the tracking information is the only way we have of knowing a package has been delivered.

Please do not feel that we have not considered your side on the matter. As part of eBay, we want to make sure that we exercise fair treatment to all our members.

There may be some other options:

1.The mail carrier may not have delivered the package or may have taken it to the wrong address. I recommend you contact the mail carrier to see if they can provide information about the package's whereabouts.

2.You may want to ask your neighbors if they received the package by mistake.

3.If you purchased insurance on this shipment, we encourage you to file an insurance claim with the shipping carrier.

As part of our helpful guidance, always check the status of the tracking information to see if the item is close to being delivered or if there is action required from you.

I hope this helps explain some options when tracking shows an item was delivered, but you don't have it in your possession.

We appreciate your understanding.

I am confident that I fully explained your issue and that I am of the best assistance with you. Thank you for choosing eBay and stay safe.

Warm Regards,

xxxxxxxx B. (redacted)
eBay Customer Support"

The return label I sent with the tracking number I sent was never used. What they did was create a label themselves (FYI... no idea where to, as the tracking does not show my address! Only that it was shipped FROM CALIFORNIA (I shipped it to Delaware fyi so how did they ship it from California 2 days after requesting a refund)?? eBay thinks I have the phone, that is ridiculous. The buyer did not follow the return policy and eBay DOES NOT CARE ABOUT YOU AS A SELLER. STOP selling asap. Go elsewhere who will actually support you. 

THE FINAL KICK TO ME AS A SELLER - I paid for the shipping label back. I paid for the shipping label there. I got $268 deposited from the sale of this item. eBay is taking $314 out of my account. Why so much??? So I guess I pay for eBay's commission, all the shipping, everything??? AND I LOST THE ITEM. I am done with eBay. You would be too if you are smart. You will sell and sell to make some profits, eBay will put you in the negative after one bad scam in which you are helpless. 

I will try to update this with info from the Post Office on this tracking number (I am going to call), it is obvious eBay does not contact and get actual delivery information such as item weight, where it shipped from and to, etc. Only a tracking number proving a delivery somewhere is all they need to rip off a seller. I keep asking eBay to confirm the delivery address on the tracking number, but they can't, they reply with delivery to 'mailbox' at Parker, CO 80138.... incompetence. 

I have numerous additional messages from my appeal asking about the tracking and the delivery address the buyer gave ebay, they just reply with same email over and over despite any question I ask. For example, I asked what the address was that they see it delivered to, this is my reply on every inquiry:

"Thanks for contacting us regarding the item " Samsung Galaxy S21" 295332276334, I understand that you did not receive your item despite confirm delivered.

After my careful review on this case, your item is delivered to your address: Delivered, In/At Mailbox PARKER, CO 80138 December 3, 2022, 2:20 pm

Link: https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction?tRef=fullpage&tLc=2&text28777=&tLabels=9400111206213951...

Please understand that if the buyer claims that the item was not received, the tracking information is the only way we can prove otherwise. Once the case has been escalated, we are compelled to make a decision depending on the information we already have.

As the case is now close, we recommend you to continue working things out with the buyer or consider starting a claim outside ebay's policy and coverage

Thank you so much for choosing eBay as your online buying platform, stay safe!"

This is ridiculous. Work with the buyer outside ebay... they are in Russia!!??!! Can I sue them? eBay gives me ZERO info to go off. eBay is the WORST selling platform out there. I would rather invite strangers to my house off Facebook Marketplace than do anything on Facebook again.

PS - For all of you who will say I should have canceled, I never thought I had to worry about this. I thought eBay protected the buyer AND the seller. Guess not.  Knowing eBay will not protect you as a seller, better to stop posting items asap. I have since talked to several others about eBay and they all have had bad experiences as a seller. It is obvious eBay is not the place to do business. STOP SELLING BEFORE THIS IS YOU!

[inhawaii]

I only read up to the second paragraph.  Too lazy.

Yes, you are correct.

Ebay will not support you and you can lose money (get scammed) if you do not follow proper protocol.

The "can you send it to another address" scam is one of the oldest in the book.

You should have cancelled the sale. Reason: Problem with buyers address.

And had the the buyer re-purchase the item, this time with the correct address.

[itscalledapostingid · Accepted solution]

@p_d_wolff 

Sounds like a typical FTID return scam.

Your local postmaster can check the GPS location of the delivery scan on that package. They can also see if it was in fact addressed to you.  If it was not get a letter from postmaster stating this. Show that to ebay. 

[tdrake]

I only needed to read this far: 

"The buyer sends me a message and says they are moving, could I send the phone to another address and send them the tracking number. I agreed and setup the shipping to this new address. I packaged it and got it to the post office right away."

To expect help from eBay first you must follow their rules and procedures.  

[baydistributionllc]

I read most of your post.

NEVER change an address. I would have cancelled the whole order and blocked them. I don’t block people who just made an address mistake but I still don’t change the address. I would ship a freight forwarded item if it was less than $200 but I wouldn’t change the address to a different freight forwarder and I would block for asking.

Changing the address is part and parcel of identity theft. Never ever ever ever change and address. Cancel and have them order again. If its identity theft they won’t order again and you dodged a bullet. If they do it was an innocent mistake and your probably good.

This could have just been a $350 lesson on don’t change the address.

I think you can get ebay to give your money back if you keep harping on them. There is no final state of any case. They can always give your money back if the want. Beat them up on social media. That usually works.

You messed up when you changed that address. The bogus return tracking should get your money back. You are going to have to repeatedly contact them to get someone who sees the return tracking is bogus.

[dbfolks166mt]

     You may be going at this from the wrong angle. If I gather correctly the buyer opened a NAD case with eBay which you lost because the buyer claims they returned the phone. For disputing the claim it's not about whether you received back what you sent but about the fact that the phone originally went through a freight forwarder which should have negated the buyers MBG coverage once it was initially delivered to the FF. 

     Not sure if you can still dispute the claim at this point but it would be worth a shot. On the good side you mentioned you have the IMEI number, most people fail to keep that info when they sell a phone, you can report the IMEI number to the IMEI blacklist which will render the phone basically useless to the buyer. It is almost impossible to get a number removed from the blacklist. 

     Cell phones are one of the most sought after items by the scammers along with other electronic items. There are some things that I would simply never list on eBay there are too many other options. 

[gemarakop_trading]

This is an old intentional scam. Ebay is aware of this don’t say you did not get say you were defrauded on ebays platform. It is best to speak to someone on the phone or chat on Facebook customer service help. Again ebay knows this is a scam.

[p_d_wolff]

I get the whole address thing, but it's in my messages that they requested it to be changed. Does that not matter... it's the dumbest thing ever. eBay also never said it had anything to do with that part, it was because they bought their own return label and called eBay stating it was returned. How can you do that... especially a tracking number that says it was shipped from the other side of the country? Lame

Essentially, I could order from you, say it doesn't work and I am returning the item. Ghost you if you try to help. Then send a fake return with my own label (easily just send something to your city and not even your address for proof, call eBay and have them refund my money. That is the scam. eBay never said anything about the shipping address, they said the item was returned... I never received it.

Also, FYI for the last person, I am harping on them. I am going to beat them up on social media, and everywhere else...Thus this post I usually wouldn't waste 30 minutes of my time composing. eBay should really add in some protection to sellers... because what I said is true, they don't care. I'm an honest seller... bottom line who got screwed. And the address thing doesn't matter.... a buyer can do whatever they want. They can tell you it isn't what you said it was (WHEN IT WAS EXACTLY DESCRIBED) and you pay shipping? What if that item is $40 shipping each way? You as a seller will get burned nonstop... again, sellers are not cared about. This is just a fact.

[p_d_wolff]

Also, I didn't know this was a freight forwarder until we got to the return stage and I checked on Google Maps. I am not a huge seller, I sell my stuff from home. You cannot expect me to know as much as people who sell 10k + worth of stuff. And you are still unprotected no matter what volume, I bet I could scam you tomorrow knowing what I know. Ebay should not let you be able to edit the shipping label then if that is a way to get scammed, why could I change it in eBay's system? All these are errors in their system then... not me. I am just ignorant, but I should be protected, JUST as much as a buyer... especially when I have a wealth of information like I do showing the scam.

[p_d_wolff]

Thank you, I am going to check this. I was going to call the PO as I think they have more detailed tracking to show we didn't receive anything. I think eBay should be putting a hold on the dispute until it can be checked further. It is aggravating they don't have processes in place for this. After the fact, I see it happens all the time for the last few years.

[djvp53]

---

@dbfolks166mt wrote:

     You may be going at this from the wrong angle. If I gather correctly the buyer opened a NAD case with eBay which you lost because the buyer claims they returned the phone. For disputing the claim it's not about whether you received back what you sent but about the fact that the phone originally went through a freight forwarder which should have negated the buyers MBG coverage once it was initially delivered to the FF. 

---

But the sale wasn't originally supposed to go to the freight forwarder.  The buyer told the seller to ship to the freight forwarder after purchase. I don't know how eBay's rules about freight forwarders work when the registered address for the sale was not a freight forwarder but the buyer later asked to ship it to one. (And yes, I know the seller should not have agreed to the address change after purchase.)

I'm also not sure how eBay identifies which addresses are freight forwarders.

[ittybitnot]

The buyer sends me a message and says they are moving, could I send the phone to another address....

@p_d_wolff 

Up until a few years ago eBay WOULD honor a 'change of address' request if done through eBay messages should an 'item not received' claim be filed.  Unfortunately, they quit doing that, likely for having to pay out so much due to fraud.   There are users that will 'impersonate' your buyer with a plea for an address change.  The result is the criminal gets the product, and the REAL buyer gets nothing and files a claim against you. 

Since your REAL buyer filed a not as described claim, the change of address is not as important at this point. 

The address you shipped to is a 'most famous' freight forwarder address favored by scammers from the Russian Federation.  The scam that you experienced is quite common.  They don't have to use your provided label to document a return, and purchasing a cheap trinket on the net and having it sent you or an address in your zipcode will satisfy eBay as documentation for a return.   You are going to have to obtain a written note from your post office that says the parcel was NOT intended for you, before you proceed to contact eBay via the SEND MESSAGE button at the top of this page: 

https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness

You can upload a photo of the documentation to the chat portal.  That along with the fact that this was a freight forwarder situation as well may aid in getting your money back.  Contacting the regular  foriegn outsourced call center reps through call back or chat WILL NOT.  The "form letter" they already sent you is hopes that you simply go away, and eBay doesn't have to do anything or lose any of THEIR money. 

Keep in mind if you did not ship to the address originally provided with the payment,  you may be so done we could stick a fork in you anyway. However, the claim was for "not as described", so there is a chance the address change may be moot since the buyer supposedly had to receive it in order to complain and file a claim.   I would focus on the 'cheap trinket return scam from the Russian using a F. Forwarder'  when pleading the case through the link provided above. 

Basically,  you need to get to work on this.  As you can see, eBay still doesn't want to pay out for fraud either and makes it quite difficult for the victim be they the seller or a buyer. 

*As a side note, I was under the impression that eBay has also disallowed users from the Russian Federation to use the site anyway.  Since we have not had a report here regarding this scam in a couple of months, I assumed the sanction sort of put an end to the (almost daily) occurances of this unsavory activity. 

kyle@ebay 

*Can you let us know if there are still sanctions against Russian (and Ukrane) users on the eBay site, or they have been removed?  Does the use of a freight forwarded circumvent any sanctions that may still be in place? 

[p_d_wolff]

The original address was a FF. It was onex.ru, just a different forwarder. Usa2Georgia is apparently the same thing?? I don't know... weird to change address to another FF?

[p_d_wolff]

I've had ebay call me each time (through their website, contact us where you have them call you)and I discussed my options with them. I told them exactly what has happened each time and have a recording of each call. They are well aware, they do nothing each time. They said they would call me in 24 hours, but never did. Sent me a generic email stating they are still siding with the buyer. It's pathetic.

[aproudparent2010]

You should only send to the address on the payment and not some other address.

You got scammed.......