eBay

dodo1407 · ‎02-28-2020

eBay and PayPal do not protect us sellers. In April 2019 I sold on eBay camera and two lenses. The buyer gave me a positive feedback and left me a very good review on eBay. Last month, nine months after the sale, I got an email from PayPal saying that the buyer claims that he never approved this purchase. I sent them the positive feedback the byer gave me as a proof that he did get it and enjoys the product. I also contact USPS who told me that the tracking number is only valid for four months so I cant use it as a proof of delivery. A couple of days ago I got a message from PayPal asking me to return the money plus $20 fee. When contacting them and eBay as well they told me that the case is closed and there is nothing I can do anymore. All the signs shows that I was scammed – why did the buyer remember that he never got the goods nine months after the purchase? This is how they are protecting the sellers from scammers? Obviously this buyer, learned how to work the system. He knew that after so many months the tracking number wont be valid. Be aware of the low protection we are getting from eBay and PayPal.

dubiousgain · ‎02-28-2020

Just FYI, it is against eBay policy to name and shame on the boards, and blah blah blah... but as the cat is already out of the bag, I'd say Google *that name fraud*.. Wow .. Which one was your buyer? It might be his modus operandi.

orangehound · ‎02-28-2020

@dodo1407 wrote:
Last month, nine months after the sale, I got an email from PayPal saying that the buyer claims that he never approved this purchase.

A couple of days ago I got a message from PayPal asking me to return the money plus $20 fee. When contacting them and eBay as well they told me that the case is closed and there is nothing I can do anymore.

I am confused. You write that the "case is closed", but did it close with money actually taken out of your account ... or did it close without any payment from you?

PayPal's stated policy is that chargebacks can only be enforced for 120 days after purchase ... I supposed that PayPal can request that you refund, but they should not be requiring the refund.

If they did force a refund, I would appeal the decision with PayPal.

earlyant-77 · ‎02-28-2020

@orangehound wrote:
@dodo1407 wrote:
Last month, nine months after the sale, I got an email from PayPal saying that the buyer claims that he never approved this purchase.

A couple of days ago I got a message from PayPal asking me to return the money plus $20 fee. When contacting them and eBay as well they told me that the case is closed and there is nothing I can do anymore.
I am confused. You write that the "case is closed", but did it close with money actually taken out of your account ... or did it close without any payment from you?

PayPal's stated policy is that chargebacks can only be enforced for 120 days after purchase ... I supposed that PayPal can request that you refund, but they should not be requiring the refund.

If they did force a refund, I would appeal the decision with PayPal.

From the link:

Buyers can file chargebacks 120 days or more after an order’s been placed.

ersatz_sobriquet · ‎02-28-2020

USPS has tracking that goes back further in their records. You have to do a special request for some stupid reason. Get on it and try to keep your money. Good luck, I understand completely. Yep, the big corporations are all about themselves, peons who cares.

armyairforce4 · ‎02-28-2020

PayPal saying that the buyer claims that he never approved this purchase.

The above is from your post. Not approving a purchase and not received are different. Sounds as though buyer filed with their credit card co. Either way, buyer is a scammer. Hope it works out for you.

dodo1407 · ‎02-28-2020

They claim that the buyer's financial institute (which they refuse to give me this financial institute name) charged PayPal so I have a balance due to PayPal. Thanks for sharing the 120 limits info. Will try to see if they will honor that although they said that there is nothing they can do
(lame answer...)

bar-29368 · ‎02-28-2020

It's an Unauthorized use chargeback.

You don't have to show proof of delivery. Just that you shipped it to the address PayPal gave you.

earlyant-77 · ‎02-28-2020

@ersatz_sobriquet wrote:
USPS has tracking that goes back further in their records. You have to do a special request for some stupid reason. Get on it and try to keep your money. Good luck, I understand completely. Yep, the big corporations are all about themselves, peons who cares.

Well, now you can buy optional time for the tracking # to stay active online. It is probably worth it if you ship a high $ item. I think it was 2.90 for 6 months, maybe 4.00 or so for a year? You can go up to 3 years.

If you look up a tracking # of something that you just shipped, you will see the extra services available if it qualifies.

fashunu4eeuh · ‎02-28-2020

Your customer didn't go to PayPal to get a refund. They went straight to their credit card company. They are claiming that they did not make the purchase, not that they didn’t receive it. Either way, eBay and PayPal rules won’t apply in this case as this is a chargeback. The $20 is PP’s fee for that. I don’t know if there was anything PP or eBay can do under the circumstances.

As for seller protections on the platform, there are a few, but for the most part sellers have to look out for their own interests. The greater protections exist for the buyers.

So sorry this transaction turned bad for you. Thank you for sharing your experience. Undoubtably it will help to educate others on the pitfalls of online selling.

earlyant-77 · ‎02-28-2020

@fashunu4eeuh wrote:
Your customer didn't go to PayPal to get a refund. They went straight to their credit card company. They are claiming that they did not make the purchase, not that they didn’t receive it. Either way, eBay and PayPal rules won’t apply in this case as this is a chargeback. The $20 is PP’s fee for that. I don’t know if there was anything PP or eBay can do under the circumstances.

Because it was after 180 days, their only option was to do a CC chargeback. And yes, PP does protect you from those, provided you can show that you shipped the item to the address on the PP payment.

The problem is, the tracking info is gone. PP should be responsible for keeping this info for at least a year, since THEY allow a case up to 180 days, and some CC's can allow up to a year.

themo1346 · ‎02-28-2020

When I go to the post office to send off any order, I keep the receipt for postage and tracking number, attach the transaction number to it and store it for at least 6 months following the sale. This protects me from charge backs through anyone. What I deduce from your discussion is that the buyer never received the package, which means you have to justify yourself to eBay and PayPal. I would file a claim for the lost package and inform the buyer that the situation is being followed up. Sloppy paperwork is often to blame for the loss of money.

earlyant-77 · ‎03-02-2020

@themo1346 wrote:
When I go to the post office to send off any order, I keep the receipt for postage and tracking number, attach the transaction number to it and store it for at least 6 months following the sale. This protects me from charge backs through anyone. What I deduce from your discussion is that the buyer never received the package, which means you have to justify yourself to eBay and PayPal. I would file a claim for the lost package and inform the buyer that the situation is being followed up. Sloppy paperwork is often to blame for the loss of money.

They filed an unauthorized use chargeback. All that is needed to win one of those is proof of SHIPPING to the buyer. Proof of delivery for this type is no required for PP seller protection.

sodelight · ‎03-02-2020

Considering USPS doesn't store tracking info beyond 4 months consider using Signature confirmation (kept 1 year) OR Adult signature required, they keep that tracking 2 years, for higher ticket transactions.

I don't know if screenshots of transactions showing shipping and delivery would suffice. Certainly worth doing on transactions that might be a problem or higher ticket.

USPS now takes advantage of not maintaining tracking beyond 4 months for most shipments by offering Premium Tracking, you can pay them to keep the tracking in your system for a longer period of time. Not cheap, starts at $2.10 for a mere 6 months! I guess they're not making enough money with their annual shipping fee increases! It's ridiculous to charge this much simply to retrieve tracking beyond 120 days.

So sorry this happened to you.

earlyant-77 · ‎03-02-2020

Yep - it's ridiculous for the USPS to charge for this service, but even more ridiculous that PP doesn't maintain a copy of the tracking - at the minimum origin and destination scan, for at LEAST as long as their own 180 day policy and even up to a year for some credit cards.