eBay

wills_thrill · ‎12-13-2019

I was just hit today with a VeRO claim from a company that is not listed on E-Bay's publicly available VeRO list. Then E-Bay hit me with a 3 day restriction on my account. The VeRO claim was that my item was counterfeit.

In reality, the item was authentic and not counterfeit. The VeRo filer rescinded their claim. It took an entire day and a dozen emails and hours on the phone to straighten the whole mess out. Then E-Bay has the gall to say that it will take another 24-48 hours for them to remove the VeRO strike on my account!

Well guess what, 1 day to resolve the issue with the company, plus 2 days for E-Bay to remove the strike is 3 DAYS! The full 3-day restriction punishment will still apply, with no recourse or compensation to me for it having occurred falsely! I'm going to lose revenue for 3 days through no fault of my own!

E-Bay has no grace period to allow a seller to address this issuer with the VeRO filer. They just screw over their sellers immediately and irreversibly!

But it gets even better! A rep for the company admitted that they have people in India searching E-Bay for counterfeit items. They provide a list to corporate, and then corporate just takes down whatever listings India provides, without confirming each of them.

In my case, the item was a product that has been discontinued since 2018. The workers in India only know the current product offerings. SINCE MY ITEM WAS NOT A CURRENT OFFERING, THE INDIA WORKERS ASSUME IT IS COUNTERFEIT, SO IT GETS FILED FOR A VeRO!

This is total **bleep** and a total abuse of E-Bay sellers, that E-Bay allows to happen by using a flawed VeRO system.

No account restrictions should occur until after a grace period for a seller to either resolve the dispute, or file a counterclaim. It's one thing to take down the one listing incorrectly over a VeRO claim.

It is entirely another thing to issue an account restriction that affects a seller's revenue stream irreversibly, because of a falso VeRO filing!

E-Bay needs to implement a new process immediately to stop the VeRO abuses that sellers constantly struggle with!

No matter how many VeRO strikes on an account, when VeRO is filed:

the item is temporarily removed.
A grace period of 3-5 days is given for a seller to address this with the VeRO filer, or by counterclaim.
After the grace period passes, if the seller hasn't resolved the issue, then E-Bay can issue whatever restriction is required based on account history.

At least this has some chance to be fair to the seller, unlike E-Bay's current police that is 100% UNFAIR!

luckythewinner · ‎12-14-2019

@richards*rock*collection wrote:
I think every one has the wrong idea about the whole business model of eBay today. I am not saying this is true, but eBay could be a retail outlet in itself that stock piles quality merchandise themselves, selling it themselves with individual fake selling site within the company all the while using legitimate small private sellers as advertising showing the over priced listings to the buyer thus moving their own goods. I know this sounds improbable but I said it could be like that, and that is exactly what I would do.

I don't think eBay is as willing to break the law as you seem to think.

dash-2773 · ‎12-14-2019

@richards*rock*collection wrote:
I think every one has the wrong idea about the whole business model of eBay today. I am not saying this is true, but eBay could be a retail outlet in itself that stock piles quality merchandise themselves, selling it themselves with individual fake selling site within the company all the while using legitimate small private sellers as advertising showing the over priced listings to the buyer thus moving their own goods. I know this sounds improbable but I said it could be like that, and that is exactly what I would do.

So all the sellers are just eBay shills? Are you also an eBay shill?

wills_thrill · ‎12-14-2019

Just as a quick follow up, E-Bay still has not removed my account restriction despite the VeRO being rescinded. My acocunt which would normally have sold several hundred dollars on a Friday and Saturday has had two items sell (to watchers I think) during my restriction.

So far this false claim, and E-Bays unfair response to VeRO claims (which really are just disputes between an IP holder and seller, which shouldn't justify punishment before the dispute is resolved), I probably will lose at least a few hundred dollars, with no compensation from E-Bay or the false VeRO claimant.

E-Bay asks the jury to render a verdict and determine the sentence, before the trial is even held! Great policy there...

7606dennis · ‎12-14-2019

@wills_thrill wrote:
And why should VeRO's stack towards some disciplinary act? VeRO's can be so random, that unless you are doing the same one repeatedly, why should it matter if you had past VeRO claims?

So what if you called something "velcro" in a past listing, even if it wasn't 3M velcro and generic velcro, but 3M submitted a VeRO because it isn't real velcro. And then two months later, Nike is filing a VeRO because they want you to prove the shoes you have are real. Why should your account be suspended while you are proving to Nike that they are indeed real.

It isn't even logical to take the approach E-Bay is taking!

Now maybe if Nike took down a pair of shoes, and you put them up without proving they were authentic. Then took down, again, aback up again, etc. Over the same item. Or you had multiple items in a span of time where the manufacturer claimed they were counterfeit, and you could never prove authenticity, then maybe that calls for some punishment.

If you don't fight every single one of these, then each offense stacks, and you can quickly find your account suspended for a month (or indefinitely) because of all the nitpicky stuff that can occur in the realm of copyright and trademark.

Never mind the cases where companies are flat out filing false claims on illegal grounds, and E-Bay goes right along (ie, one record company files VeRO on any albums from their company, even if it is a used item you bought and own). These companies throw 1st sale doctrine out the window!

There has to be a better process E-Bay!

Actually, VELCRO® is a registered trademark so the use of it to describe a product not manufactured by the company that owns the trademark would be infringement. The generic term for that type of fastener is "hook & loop ."

"It is an intelligent man that is aware of his own ignorance."

7606dennis · ‎12-14-2019

@wills_thrill wrote:
Just as a quick follow up, E-Bay still has not removed my account restriction despite the VeRO being rescinded. My acocunt which would normally have sold several hundred dollars on a Friday and Saturday has had two items sell (to watchers I think) during my restriction.

So far this false claim, and E-Bays unfair response to VeRO claims (which really are just disputes between an IP holder and seller, which shouldn't justify punishment before the dispute is resolved), I probably will lose at least a few hundred dollars, with no compensation from E-Bay or the false VeRO claimant.

E-Bay asks the jury to render a verdict and determine the sentence, before the trial is even held! Great policy there...

Actually, I believe any compensation would have to come from the company making the false claim of infringement by selling counterfeit items. Unfortunately, this is probably too expensive for most eBay sellers to pursue.

"It is an intelligent man that is aware of his own ignorance."

mr_lincoln · ‎12-14-2019

@richards*rock*collection wrote:
I think every one has the wrong idea about the whole business model of eBay today. I am not saying this is true, but eBay could be a retail outlet in itself that stock piles quality merchandise themselves, selling it themselves with individual fake selling site within the company all the while using legitimate small private sellers as advertising showing the over priced listings to the buyer thus moving their own goods. I know this sounds improbable but I said it could be like that, and that is exactly what I would do.

They would have to set up warehouses like Amazon, Walmart, Target and others for that kind of business model ... not going to happen.

Regards,
Mr. Lincoln - Community Mentor

fashunu4eeuh · ‎12-14-2019

@wills_thrill wrote:

“So far this false claim, and E-Bays unfair response to VeRO claims (which really are just disputes between an IP holder and seller, which shouldn't justify punishment before the dispute is resolved)...”

Ebay has no choice when a VERO claim is made. They have to take the listing down according to the law. That said, when they remove something in error, eBay should make it right. So sorry this happened to you.

wills_thrill · ‎12-14-2019

And I never said that an item shouldn't be taken down. But AFTER the item is taken down, E-Bay needs to have a grace period where the seller can resolve the issue with the VeRO claimant, BEFORE E-Bay sanctions the seller account.

Nothing says E-Bay must immediately put strikes on an account, or restrict an account. Just that the item in question needs to come down.

And FYI, the account is still restricted, 30 hours after the rescind e-mail was sent by the claimant to E-Bay. Yet E-Bay could issue the sanction 13 hours after confirming receipt of the VeRO claim.

Seems lopsided doesn't it? E-Bay can put their boot on my neck is 13 hours, but after I am proven to be right and the claimant agrees and informs E-Bay, 30 hours and counting and the boot hasn't been removed!

wills_thrill · ‎12-14-2019

Yes, that is what I am referring. There have been many E-Bay users receive a VeRO (rightly so) for saying something has a Velcro closure, when it is hook and loop.

But it is quite understandable that a seller may not be aware that Velcro is a trade name, not an item. Does it make them a bad seller who needs to have an account restricted for one listing because they didn't know this difference?

The what if they put up a listing for bubble wrap the next quarter? That is a trademark, so Sealed Air could issue a VeRO.

Then what if they list a baby onsie a few months later. Wait Onsie is a Gerber tradename, not a type of baby product, so that could be a VeRO.

Then a few months later, they are trying to sell their old ping pong paddles. Wait! ping pong is a tradename, not a product. It should be table tennis paddles. Another VeRO.

Then a few months later it is summer and they want to sell last years windbreaker. Stop the press! Windbreaker is actually a tradename, not a product. There is another VeRO.

Well, now your account may be permanently suspended by E-Bay for these serious infractions. I mean, you are a horrible seller that needs to be kicked off the platform for these heinous listings!

Hopefully you get my point. And there are hundreds and perhaps thousands more examples!

E-Bay's process is broken and unfair and needs to be fixed. And it is quite possible that anyone of those examples above could be a false VeRO claim. Should their account also be restricted or suspended why they prove the claim false?

Guilty until proven innocent.

wills_thrill · ‎12-14-2019

Why? The company filing the claim is not forcing E-Bay to issue an account restriction. That is E-Bay's policy.

E-Bay could simply remove the item, then allow for a 5 business day grace period for the parties to resolve the issue, only issuing a restriction when the seller doesn't prove their side, or file a counter claim.

Then the seller would not incur any loss of revenue. So it is E-Bay's policy, not the false VeRO claim, that results in lost revenue.

So as I see it, it should be E-Bay providing compensation for lost revenue caused by their overreaction, when the seller is totally innocent of what they were accused.

wills_thrill · ‎12-14-2019

And look at the link to the E-Bay store I pay for:

https://www.ebay.com/str/bombshellsbygones

ZERO results are showing when you visit my store. It only shows my featured items.

So E-Bay shut me down hard for a FALSE claim, right at the peak of the holiday sales season. Nothing shows in search and you can't use my store.

And E-Bay will provide me ZERO compensation for their heavy handed tactics!

kythrill · ‎12-15-2019

dash-2773 · ‎12-15-2019

I suspect there's more that you're not telling us or you're bending the facts to suit your needs.

dash-2773 · ‎12-15-2019

@wills_thrill wrote:
Yes, that is what I am referring. There have been many E-Bay users receive a VeRO (rightly so) for saying something has a Velcro closure, when it is hook and loop.

But it is quite understandable that a seller may not be aware that Velcro is a trade name, not an item. Does it make them a bad seller who needs to have an account restricted for one listing because they didn't know this difference?

The what if they put up a listing for bubble wrap the next quarter? That is a trademark, so Sealed Air could issue a VeRO.

Then what if they list a baby onsie a few months later. Wait Onsie is a Gerber tradename, not a type of baby product, so that could be a VeRO.

Then a few months later, they are trying to sell their old ping pong paddles. Wait! ping pong is a tradename, not a product. It should be table tennis paddles. Another VeRO.

Then a few months later it is summer and they want to sell last years windbreaker. Stop the press! Windbreaker is actually a tradename, not a product. There is another VeRO.

Well, now your account may be permanently suspended by E-Bay for these serious infractions. I mean, you are a horrible seller that needs to be kicked off the platform for these heinous listings!

Hopefully you get my point. And there are hundreds and perhaps thousands more examples!

E-Bay's process is broken and unfair and needs to be fixed. And it is quite possible that anyone of those examples above could be a false VeRO claim. Should their account also be restricted or suspended why they prove the claim false?

Guilty until proven innocent.

eBay expects their sellers to be intelligent adults who do some research before listing. Obviously they set their expectations too high in most cases...

wills_thrill · ‎12-15-2019

@dash-2773 wrote:
I suspect there's more that you're not telling us or you're bending the facts to suit your needs.

Wrong. I am being 100% honest and transparent. I challenge anyone from E-Bay with all the inside information to dispute anything I have said!

And it is now 44+ hours since the VeRO claimant sent a rescind request and I have heard nothing from E-Bay and the 3-Day account restriction is still in effect.

And this is the e-mail the manufacturer sent to E-Bay's VeRO team Friday at 6:19 PM EST:

"Hi, Team.

May we please request to rescind the report and lift the suspension ASAP of the said store, wills_thrill reported as counterfeit in error.

We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience it may have caused.

Please let me know for any further inquiries."

And I also forwarded this to E-Bay's VeRO team, just to make sure they received it.