Why are sellers in India allowed to get away with this-when will eBay support US sellers AND buyers?

[mczombies]

I admit--I am a jewelry junkie. Every so often when I have a few spare minutes I look for jewelry--on auction, ending soonest. I've made some great purchases in the past, but I am super careful--making sure I have my settings turned on, and I also read the listings carefully before each purchase. Even still, I have been burned before--but recently, and especially with all the policy changes for US sellers, the discrepancy between what is allowed to happen to me as am International buyer vs. what I am punished for as a US seller has really got me upset. 

I have recently become interested in all the new jewelry that is coming from India--there are a TON of new sellers here from India (or old sellers with new ID's- I don't know). Anyway, between the shill bidding (and it isn't a myth--I have bid on countless things here on eBay and I know how things are supposed to work--and whatever is happening just isn't right--I've never seen anything like it--totally corrupt) the false advertising for "Sterling Silver" which when you read the fine print is actually silver plate (I thought this wasn't allowed) and the worst breach of policy I have ever seen (as described below)--it is a nightmare and a mess. 

I recently won a ring from a seller from India with "Free Shipping" and lo and behold when I went to pay they had sent me an invoice with a shipping charge of 6.99! So I called eBay--sure enough the CS confirmed that the ring was sold with free shipping. Of course, customer service did absolutely nothing to help me--so I have to ask the seller to cancel the order for me--but I get a strike. So now I have to call back and have the strike removed--totally unfair and ridiculous. I have been on eBay for 13 years and I have NEVER not paid for an item--I really resent my account getting that strike. What's more--the CSR was very evasive about what kind of correction this seller was going receive, if any--leading me to believe that they were somehow protected. I can't prove that, but it's a feeling I got--she didn't even seem that surprised about it. Shouldn't there be some kind of punishment for making me waste my time having to call CS twice--and also for leaving me totally unsatisfied with my "purchase?" All of their listings still say "Free Shipping." And what about all the other innocent  buyers who fall for this scam and either just go ahead and pay, or take a strike when they ask the seller to cancel? Is India the new country to be wary of--and how many buyers will this lose eBay as their trust/confidence is violated? For the life of me--I can't reconcile how making some fast money from China or India garbage is worth losing tons of buyers--buyers that could be lifelong sources of income for eBay. How does this make sense? 

I just don't understand why sellers from other countries are given such incredible breaks here. I am not xenophobic, and I purchase frequently from other countries--but how come I can't return an item to China on their dime, but a buyer from ANYWHERE in the world can basically return/steal my item and/or my money (however it works out--I basically lose--right)? And why is eBay enforcing this Global shipping thing by dropping us from Global Top Rated if we don't sell a certain amount to other countries? What am I missing here? Why are US sellers responsible for not only honestly, integrity, and towing the line (OK-fine), but also are forced to take risks that they don't feel comfortable with--like offering Global shipping, dong FREE RETURNS, and paying for every single little mistake out of our own pockets?

Now they won't even support us in regards to false SNADS--it is everywhere here on the boards--and I have experienced it myself recently. Returns have gone through the roof, and buyers are basically being told its OK to lie. And they do--and pretty soon they won't have to lie--they can just be as irresponsible as they want--on OUR dime. They have given buyers a license to steal--from us--the country and sellers that BUILT eBay. Not only that, but we also have to worry about being ripped off by everyone ELSE in the world. No protection for sellers, but also as US buyers we are sorely neglected.

Heck, some sellers are restricted/punished/banned just for having a double listing. When you think about it, it is crazy--when you see thousands of multiple listings from China.  Are we just stupid for going along with this? Again, what am I missing here? Shouldn't eBay be concerned with its US sellers and give us some breaks? I am not saying that they should allow US sellers to lie, cheat, steal, shill bid, and break all the rules--not at all--but why do they allow other countries to do so? If I tried half the things that have happened to me as a buyer who shops Internationally--I would have been gone a long time ago.

Instead I am still here, following all the rules, stressing out about getting defects, making sure to ship on time, plugging away and working as hard as I can to describe everything perfectly, yet still dealing with false SNAD returns, living in fear of negative feedback--all the while still trying to maintain some of my dignity, and end the day proud of what I have accomplished. But it is getting harder, to be honest--and I have loved eBay forever--the things I have purchased here, just amazing and eclectic and different and unique and wonderful--but it is getting harder to reconcile the old fuzzy nostalgic feelings with the new, and "improved" eBay. The eBay that seems to care nothing about me as a seller, and could also care less about me as a buyer.

[ymeagainlord]

To answer one of your questions, yes, India is the new "China".

Lots of new India sellers with seemingly no selling limits and following in the China seller's footsteps.

[jonathankirkland]

A lot of what you wrote sounds a bit "tin foil hat" to me, like the shill bidding claims (do you have any proof by the way?), but I do agree with you about how it seems ebay is treating US sellers. As a seller but more as a buyer even, I don't think this new "free returns no matter what" policy they really seem to be pushing is a good idea AT ALL. As you said and you are most correct, it creates irresponsible buyers and fosters irresponsible buying habits.

Other than China, India whatever, I feel like the only small time US sellers who are going to make it on ebay in the long run are those who sell things that don't get a lot of returns.

As far as a listing showing FREE SHIPPING and then trying to charge you for shipping at check out that definitely isn't right, and whichever CSR you spoke to who shrugged that off should be fired. Also, you shouldn't have gotten any kind of "strike" unless the seller refused to cancel the order "at buyers request" for this shipping charge issue and instead opened an "unpaid item request" which you let time out, but that would be even more silly if that is in fact what happened...  I feel like there are some details missing here.

[chrysylys]

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@ymeagainlord wrote:
To answer one of your questions, yes, India is the new "China".

Lots of new India sellers with seemingly no selling limits and following in the China seller's footsteps.

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I didn't read a word of the OP other than the title, but this was my first thought.  The Golden Children have a new place of origin.

[pjcdn2005]

I agree that North American sellers do seem to be more carefully scrutinized for things like duplicate listings but I think that in other ways that you mentioned, international sellers are not treated differently.

If a US seller advertised free shipping and then sent an email invoice with a shipping charge, it would be exactly the same result as with the India seller. eBay can’t force a seller to send the item and they don’t penalize sellers doing that regardless if they are in the US or elsewhere. It would only be a different result if the seller cancelled using out of stock as a reason.  It’s definitely a loophole on the system.

I’m not sure why you think that international  sellers don’t have to pay return shipping if a buyer claims that an item is snad because they do.  An international seller can’t print a label for you but if they want the item returned they do have to send money for return shipping.

As far as global shipping top rated being ‘taken away’ from you, that shouldn’t affect you in any way.  As far as I know the only place the trs badge would show for global trs is on the Canadian site and you get the discount if your listing is trs plus on the US site regardless if you are global top rated or not.  The change in global trs has affected international sellers much more than it affects US sellers.  

[tunicaslot]

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@jonathankirkland wrote:

A lot of what you wrote sounds a bit "tin foil hat" to me, like the shill bidding claims (do you have any proof by the way?), 

As far as a listing showing FREE SHIPPING and then trying to charge you for shipping at check out that definitely isn't right, and whichever CSR you spoke to who shrugged that off should be fired. Also, you shouldn't have gotten any kind of "strike" unless the seller refused to cancel the order "at buyers request" for this shipping charge issue and instead opened an "unpaid item request" which you let time out, but that would be even more silly if that is in fact what happened...  I feel like there are some details missing here.

Shill Bidding has been a problem on Ebay since the beginning and continues to be. Some get caught - some don't.

Also Ebay is indeed watching buyers as far as cancellations and returns - especially with the new guarenteed delivery and Ebay forking over money out of their pocket for false SNADs - I as a buyer don't want that mark on my acct.

As far as your auction win - go directly to the listing and "pay now" from that not the invoice the buyer edited at a higher cost. Then report the seller for adjusting the shipping on the invoice after the fact.

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[mczombies]

"A lot of what you wrote sounds a bit "tin foil hat" to me, like the shill bidding claims (do you have any proof by the way?)"

You ought to be careful when throwing around the term "Tin Foil Hat" There is nothing that I said that should paint a picture of me as a nutcase, if that is what you were implying. In truth,  lately the "Tin Foil Hat" wearing folks with their so-called crazy conspiracies, aren't starting to look so crazy. As more and more, we see our rights and freedoms stripped from us, as our "news" is delivered by the mass media that is owned by 6 major corporations who write the scripts for the "reporters," and as we allow ourselves to be spied on, tracked, and dumbed down into submission with drugs, TV, video games, and materialism--you know, bread and circus type things. And as we slowly become accustomed to living with less, being treated worse at our jobs, having no money in savings, no reliable or affordable medical care, and living paycheck to paycheck as the "norm," we simply sit back and soak it all up like the proverbial frog in the pot. You know, the one who doesn't realize he is boiling to death as they slowly turn up the water. 

It is so easy to throw out an insult, and to demean someone--especially when they make you uncomfortable or challenge your ideals. I find it funny that you went on to agree with everythind I said, yet your knee-jerk reaction was to insult my intelligence and/or perception. I won't accept that, because for one thing--that term is used only to divide people, it seeks to shut down discussion and create an illusion of difference between us--when in reality, all people want the same things. To be treated fairly, and to have the same rules apply to everyone, and to have a fighting chance to suceed without having the deck stacked against them. My point was that while we are experiencing  a major loss of benefits, control, and  money (because any way this breaks down, we are going to be losing money in some way with these new changes--we just lost 1/2 of our TRS discount a few months ago--pretty soon most sellers will lose 100% of it, not to mention how that will affect sales, search placement etc.). It's a very scary time right now for me here--and I cannot understand why other sellers are allowed to continue to erode buyer confidence and are allowed to break the rules. It's not a conspiracy, it's a fact. 

I did not leave out any details. The listing was for free shipping, and the seller sent me an invoice with shipping added. The strike was for cancelling the order at my request--I get a strike as a buyer for cancelling a purchase. It may be silly--but that's what happened.

[jonathankirkland]

Yep... looks like I was spot on indeed.

[mczombies]

"I didn't read a word of the OP other than the title, but this was my first thought.  The Golden Children have a new place of origin."

Good to know that you read postings like the buyers read listings.

[jonathankirkland]

One of the biggest reasons these forums aren't more productive is about half the people who write a post here seem to think that the only people who should reply are people who agree 100% with the OP and tell the OP exactly what they want to hear and nothing else.

There is no need to be personally offended by every single comment. Sorry but it just gets tiring after awhile.

[mczombies]

"I agree that North American sellers do seem to be more carefully scrutinized for things like duplicate listings but I think that in other ways that you mentioned, international sellers are not treated differently.

If a US seller advertised free shipping and then sent an email invoice with a shipping charge, it would be exactly the same result as with the India seller. eBay can’t force a seller to send the item and they don’t penalize sellers doing that regardless if they are in the US or elsewhere. It would only be a different result if the seller cancelled using out of stock as a reason.  It’s definitely a loophole on the system.

I’m not sure why you think that international  sellers don’t have to pay return shipping if a buyer claims that an item is snad because they do.  An international seller can’t print a label for you but if they want the item returned they do have to send money for return shipping.

As far as global shipping top rated being ‘taken away’ from you, that shouldn’t affect you in any way.  As far as I know the only place the trs badge would show for global trs is on the Canadian site and you get the discount if your listing is trs plus on the US site regardless if you are global top rated or not.  The change in global trs has affected international sellers much more than it affects US sellers."

You are woefully mis-informed. Yes, eBay does penalize sellers for not shipping items--quite harshly, in fact. And no--it is not the same as if I sent an invoice with shipping added to a buyer--I wouldn't even dare to try something like that, but I bet if I did I would be punished--not allowed to just keep right on selling, business as usual. 

Have you ever tried to send something back to China? If you have then you would know that your chances of getting them to send you a return label are slim to none--in any case, you will be making a phone call or two to eBay to get things straightened out--I guarantee it.  Then they promise to send a replacment--weeks later when you are empty handed and the time has passed to file a case, you are out of luck. This is why buyer confidence has eroded, and this playform lost many great buyers who were burned. It's all on the forums here--go look up and read all the stories from buyers being taken advantage of--and eBay lost some really great customers. 

As far as "Global Shipping" being taken away from me--it certainly does affect me. I am not going to take the time to explain all the ways it does, as it seems you need to do some research on your own, but suffice it to say that it is a kick in the gut. At the very least, it is insulting to sellers who have worked hard for years here--to lose yet another badge, and be yet again told they aren't up to standards.

[luckythewinner]

If you believe that shill bidding, mis-identifying precious metals, and shipping surcharges are only a problem with sellers from India that USA sellers do not get away with these practices, I would say that your time as a buyer here has been very lucky indeed. 

[mczombies]

"Shill Bidding has been a problem on Ebay since the beginning and continues to be. Some get caught - some don't.

Also Ebay is indeed watching buyers as far as cancellations and returns - especially with the new guarenteed delivery and Ebay forking over money out of their pocket for false SNADs - I as a buyer don't want that mark on my acct.

As far as your auction win - go directly to the listing and "pay now" from that not the invoice the buyer edited at a higher cost. Then report the seller for adjusting the shipping on the invoice after the fact."

Yes--it's true--some get caught and some don't. But the shill bidding that is going on in these auctions from India are blatantly obvious, and are like nothing I have ever seen before here.

And I am glad you understand about not wanting that mark on your account--especially when I did nothing wrong. It's just a matter of pride, I guess. I care that my acount has no strikes--some people wouldn't, but I do. 

Thanks for helping to set the record straight.

 I did not see an option to just pay for the ring without the shipping. I tried to look for something like that, but I couldn't find a way to pay without the shipping added--this was an auction so there were no other rings listed. Also--I did report it, but as I said, they didn't seem too concerned.

[tunicaslot]

I didn't read the OP's comments as being directed only at the Indian sellers or any overseas seller in general - I read it that those listings faux pas are more often seen in listings from overseas sellers and that is a fact. 

Although many US sellers do the same thing - when searching in certain categories the overseas listings dominate with these false claims.

[mczombies]

"If you believe that shill bidding, mis-identifying precious metals, and shipping surcharges are only a problem with sellers from India that USA sellers do not get away with these practices, I would say that your time as a buyer here has been very lucky indeed. "

Well, maybe that's true--maybe I have been lucky.  But I have never seen US sellers be so blatant about disregarding the rules--I don't think it happens here nearly as much--mainly because we are so micro-managed and basically live in fear of breaking the rules and being penalized. I also mentioned that I feel some other countries are, for some reason, favored over US sellers. However, I don't see how anyone can say with a straight face that things are fair for US sellers right now--especially with these changes coming up--it's not even close.