Why I'm quitting EBay

[1975esprit]

After years of selling, I deleted all of my listings today - including ones with bids. Why? Because EBay accepted a fraudulent return request from one of my buyers, and told me I'd be paying for return shipping and issuing a refund. This despite multiple phone calls and messages from me, and the proof given in e-mails sent from the buyer himself.

I was always honest and prompt as a seller. I always communicated clearly with buyers. My listings were accurately described. And EBay stubbornly refused to take any of that into account, instead choosing to honor a deceptive, flat-out fraudulent return demand. As long as the buyer claims "item not as described," EBay will ignore the facts and rule against the seller. Now my PayPal account has a negative balance in excess of $120. This is my reward for being a straight shooter - and for putting money into EBay's already-fat wallets. 

It's a drag, because I made supplemental income this way, and had many pleasant experiences. But I refuse to be robbed as a direct result of corporate greed and apathy towards those who make them money. 

EBay is like the phone company was about 40 years ago. They know you have limited options, so they don't care about messing you over. But I'm ready to explore my other options now, as I refuse to sell through EBay anymore. 

[sicario_soldado]

OP, we agree, only took one time for my mom too, she's been in retail since 1969, same location. As someone else pointed out, the return issues are cutting both ways, both buyers and sellers are having problems. And there are cases where people have actually made gifts of their own items and there are more and more complaints from all sides. We hope there will be some correction or change to the policy but we don't think that's going to really happen. We've shifted most of our items back to the shop, our buyers know where to find us. Do what's best for your bottomline, not someone else's.

[kathieskorner]

I've always approached ebay in the same manner as casino gambling - never risk anything more than you would throw away on something you don't need.   

I view Ebay's policy of any item claimed to be not as described can be returned with the seller paying for return shipping as meaning not to list anything where my profit is less than twice the cost to ship.   When it comes to SNADs there is rarely such a thing as "fraudulent buyer claims" as far as ebay is concerned.  

I also sell on ebay to supplement my income, and there is no way I would ever list anything that cost $50 to ship other than as a pick up only. 

[luckythewinner]

I have been burned by them before, but on smaller-ticket items and/or in cases where I felt I was willing to give in a bit.

So you did know there is a risk to selling on eBay. 

In this case, I did everything I knew to secure my position. 

On eBay, there is absolutely nothing you can do to completely secure yourself against a fraudulent SNAD. If you thought so, you were mistaken.

I didn't fall into the trap of accepting the return request

Actually, the trap is not accepting the return request - as you understand now that it is too late.  You generally end up refunding, losing the item, and getting a "Case Closed Without Seller Resolution" defect.

I canceled pending sales, because I knew EBay would seize the money from those sales to offset the fraudulent return cost.

You will not avoid repaying the return cost eventually. You will either repay eBay, or they will make you pay on your credit report when they send your account to collections. And if you ever do change your mind, those additional canceled sales likely added more defects and eBay may not let you sell again. 

[moms**art**window**]

Admire your spirit winners hate to lose,$120 is a good bit eBay doesn't realize not all sellers are millionairess but most are regular people,some disabled or elderly trying to pay for medicine or an electric bill and sometimes an unexpected hit like that can push one over the edge,if you haven't deleted all items permanently maybe wait and take your mind off this somehow and make a decision without emotion taking a role in it,made my worst decisions in life when i was mad,i had a return on a painting they refused to sign for they did a case not as described,it ticked me off i fought won then they went through PP and won,got it back sold it for more made up for the shipping loss.It may be your IQ that makes you smart but your EQ is a big part in your final success.

[tealt]

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@luckythewinner wrote:

I have been burned by them before, but on smaller-ticket items and/or in cases where I felt I was willing to give in a bit.

So you did know there is a risk to selling on eBay. 

In this case, I did everything I knew to secure my position. 

On eBay, there is absolutely nothing you can do to completely secure yourself against a fraudulent SNAD. If you thought so, you were mistaken.

I didn't fall into the trap of accepting the return request

Actually, the trap is not accepting the return request - as you understand now that it is too late.  You generally end up refunding, losing the item, and getting a "Case Closed Without Seller Resolution" defect.

I canceled pending sales, because I knew EBay would seize the money from those sales to offset the fraudulent return cost.

You will not avoid repaying the return cost eventually. You will either repay eBay, or they will make you pay on your credit report when they send your account to collections. And if you ever do change your mind, those additional canceled sales likely added more defects and eBay may not let you sell again. 

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Your replies make an excellent case for why selling on eBay would be a mistake.

It's too bad new sellers are not presented with this information.

After reading your post would new sellers decide against selling on eBay?  Who knows?  But, it would be only fair to provide these facts.

[myescape]

You could have similar issues anywhere you use a payment service to process credt cards as in this case pp processes the card and they are the contact w the card not you.Should a buyer file w a card you don't even have the option to prove anything to the cc company

I respect your decision and wish you good fortunes

[numisnorway]

The return fraud is getting out of hand even for large corporations.

Here in Norway a big retailer recently started loaning out tools for free to customers. In the media it was angled as "good news", but the reality is that they do it to combat fradulent returns where people use some tools for a small job that is done in a couple of days and then return the tools with not other reason given than "did not like it" etc, but of course the media failed to mention that.

In the end consumers end up paying more for products because of high finance catering to these thieves.

[luckythewinner]

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@tealt wrote:
Your replies make an excellent case for why selling on eBay would be a mistake.

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They do not make a case for why selling on eBay would be a mistake; they simply remind sellers that selling online is risky - specially when you choose to submit to the rules of other venues. 

Everything I said about the risks of selling eBay are equally true of selling anywhere else and accepting PayPal through eBay. 

[threshold.sales.group]

IMO, the problem in most cases we read about here is that the policies **as applied** to return cases are nowhere explained in clear terms for the seller.  This especially is true of big bold seller protection pages - the actual reality ends up being totally different and people feel justifiably (imo) angry that there really is no seller protection for the seller in the middle of a fraudulent return. Better and more honest to be up front and crystal clear about the risks and benefits. 

[keziak]

Best wishes in finding new sites to sell on. It's rough on sellers on Amazon too. They went to automatic approval of returns and return rates have gone up.

[ten_o_nine]

I don’t know but I am going to try to explain this the way I think, please let me know if I am wrong.

It’s not up to ebay to decide when there’s a SNAD case. In all cases, if a buyer resorts it to their credit card company, they will receive provisional credit and a case is opened, ebay is  now like the ebay seller, too many of those and you’re in trouble, it’s like not resolving a case and asking ebay to step in, the buyer will win in either case, the only cases won are the “not received” when tracking shows delivered.

[ted_200]

Everything I said about the risks of selling eBay are equally true of selling anywhere else and accepting PayPal through eBay. 

Well, technically, yes.  Accepting PayPal through anywhere has risks. 

Not everywhere has the same eBay MBG risk though. 

And it's also a "neighborhood" thing.  For whatever reason, there is less fraud on ALL other outlets I use, including those that have their own dispute resolution systems (which are less ridiculous) and where credit cards and PayPal are also in play.

[turquoisetulips]

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@emerald40 wrote:

From your post sounds like this is the first time this has happened?

If so, it seems silly imo to stop selling after countless years just because of this, which has happened or will hapen to pretty much everyone eventually.

Yes it is a cost of doing business.  B&M stores have shoplifters.  Online venues have this. 

Yes that's true . However B&M store managers aren't helping the shoplifters to commit   their crimes and then clubbing the employees over the head for trying to stop them.  Tulips

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[turquoisetulips]

With the help of my mom aguy that was assaulting women sales people and women shoppers during the day was stopped and put behind bars for a very long time-- richellturne-  unquote 

Speaking of sexual assaults and mothers . Not sure anyone remembers the old J.J Newberry  department stores  or not . However I was with my mom  there one day when I was a little girl , about 8 years old.  Some man walked by and put his hands on her behind . My mom was a feisty southern woman  who didn't believe in calling the police . I watched her pick up the nearest heavy item  and she clobbered him right across the back of his  shoulders . The guy just kept walking ,, he never turned around or said one word . I do believe he made the right decision  at that point . Tulips 

[lunalapin1912]

You missed a few items. you have a few hundred dollars worth of listings still up.