What would you do about this new-ish seller's bad practices (and/or similar ones)?

[gurlcat]

Okay, I am keenly aware that it's a seller's prerogative to determine how much they want to charge for shipping, that some do it knowing they are overcharging and will pocket the overage as profit, but it's not against Ebay rules to do this because the seller can claim any amount for materials, labor and transport of the package to the carrier, so basically it's totally the buyer's responsibility to decide whether or not the shipping cost is a deal breaker, before buying/bidding. 

I get that.  So, when I saw that a small lot of pre-owned costume jewelry I'd estimate to weigh no more than 7 or 8 ounces had a shipping charge of $11.75 for "Expedited" Priority, (not only would the low weight make it First Class eligible but her charge is even more than the cost of a Small Flat Rate box into which this lot would easily fit), well I decided to bid anyway because the starting bid was fairly low for the quality of items.  My proxy bid was only a couple bucks more than the starting bid, because the quality was not so great that I'd be willing to pay much more, namely given the shipping cost.  

Well, nobody bid against me so I won for $13.70 plus the $11.75 shipping, and paid in less than 30 seconds from hearing the notification.  That was Thursday afternoon, and the seller didn't mark the package shipped until last night (Sunday) but since Ebay listings no longer show the seller's handling time, I don't know if she shipped as fast as she privately committed to Ebay or not.  I do know it takes only a few minutes to chuck a ziplock of jewelry into a SFR box, lol, but whatever; this isn't a very exciting lot so I'm in no big hurry to receive it.  However I DO like to know where my packages are and what day to watch for deliveries on my porch, so it did irk me a bit to see that the seller had only 'marked' the package sent, no tracking number.  Incidentally, it did say it was shipped Priority, so I guess she had to choose that from a menu or it automatically stated it, given that's the tier she chose when she created the listing.  So I shot her a quick message, just asking if I could have the tracking number.  She didn't directly reply but I see now that she uploaded the tracking number to the Order Details.  

And can you guess the problem I saw when I clicked the number?  --Yup, she shipped First Class, paid around $4 maybe $5.  And only time will tell whether she even packed wisely or if I'll receive a squishy envelope of crushed hardware and loose rhinestones.  But I immediately thought, 'That's it, she's already getting at least a neutral for this.'  But the thing is, she already has one neutral and one neg, out of 13 feedbacks.  --Yes I did see those before I bid, but they are not shipping-related, nor of any concern regarding the lot I was bidding on.   

So clearly this is a new seller who quite possibly is just struggling to understand shipping and ebay policy.  Looking at her current listings, she has bigger lots with lower shipping (stated as 'Standard,' First Class, for $5.25), and lots even smaller than mine with the $11.75 charge.  It's as if she used NO rhyme or reason when making the listings; the overpriced ones aren't even necessarily her 'older' listings, as if she since learned to stop doing that.  And I suspect a couple of her lots will be over a pound and therefore not be eligible for the First Class price she put on them. 

In other words, Girl is on a crash course with an abysmal feedback score soon to ensue if she doesn't get shipping sorted out, so I kind of feel like I should try to help.  But given her lack of (personal) reply when I wrote to ask for the tracking number, I have a sense that she might not take constructive criticism well, especially because I would be asserting my own complaint (of paying about 3X actual shipping for my purchase), in addition to the problematic ones on her horizon. If I explain her problem too succinctly she could take it as curtness, if I explain it at length I might waste a bunch of time only to get no reply (or defensiveness despite my attempt at tenderness).    And ha, in the other extreme I could wind up with a newbie who starts writing to me for advice and information on every conceivable facet of ebay selling.  

So what would you do?  And by the way, I wouldn't have written this big long thing only to get advice on this one seller; she's not the first I've encountered who was irksome in a way that could be just rookie mistakes, and she won't be the last.  So really this is an open invitation to talk about dealing with this issue, in general.  Personal stories totally welcome!  

[mr_lincoln]

@gurlcat   I think for a lot of people, and not just those who sell on internet venues, the whole packing and shipping thing is just a mystery to them.  I see this at the post office occasionally, the clerk winds up giving a small presentation to a customer about package size, weight, class (First - Ground - Priority - Etc).  And yes, I have paid "X" for shipping and upon receipt realized the Seller paid "X-a lot" ... does that irritate me?  Yes.  Do I leave less then Positive FB for them? No ... but that's just how I deal with it.  The other thing that often surprises me is the packaging I get from Sellers who are NOT new to Selling.  I got one recently where the box was 4 times the size required, and the extra air space was stuffed will all kinds of paper INCLUDING the shrink wrap from a multi-roll toilet paper package ... the box was smushed in a few places  too. 

As to a Seller's Handling time?  I agree 150% that information should be prominent on the listing page, period.  Forget "estimated delivery" ... that's a subjective value depending on the carrier in many cases BUT I would like to know how soon the item will be shipped.

[gurlcat]

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@nocoolnamejane wrote:

Let me rephrase @jda15121 ´s post then.

If I received the lot as described, before the last estimated delivery date shown on the listing, I would leave a positive or nothing.

As for what a neut does to a feedback score: nothing. Doesn’t lower it or raise it.

Do you wish to educate or punish this seller?

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 It depends on whether or not she knows what she's doing is wrong and against policy.  I actually can't tell at this point.  

[lamber9347]

@gurlcat You actually answered it perfectly, a neutral doesn't lower sellers score but does serve as something for others to read. I didn't suggest you ask for a refund of the difference in shipping because I've had this done to me by other sellers SEVERAL times. Not once has a seller given me back anything for the change in shipping. Instead, I usually get ripped apart by them, called names, and accused of making things up even after sending them a photo of the label on the envelope with their name/address and first class clearly written on it. 

To me it's not worth the hassle to point it out so I do, and always will, leave a neutral when a seller switches shipping on me. If you break policy, this is the consequence. Best of luck to you....

[glasser]

Perhaps the seller doesn't understand the pay FVF on the shipping charged or doesn't know how to calculated shipping for a more accurate charge.

If you are happy with deal you got, that's good.   

Shipping is one of the hardest things for new sellers. Really how many of us ran a mail room before eBay, From the OP sounds like she lowered shipping on subsequent listings so maybe she is getting the hang of things. 

If you can find it within yourself to write her a civil note ins the spirit of I want everyone eBay to be successful, you could let her know how she can do a bit better in shipping items and what buyers expect (fair price and a tacking number), you could make her aware that using the shipping calculator would avoid these kinds of issues in the future as well.

[gurlcat]

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@selsa84 wrote:

so you knowingly bid on something that had high shipping and you want to hurt the seller? Really? 

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You must not have read my whole post.  

[firejake2003]

While it was wrong to state the shipping paid was for Priority, there are a few things to keep in mind here.  You paid 25.45 for a handful of inexpensive jewelry.  The seller pays ebay about 14 percent of that with the fees involved, which is about 3.56.  Then, the shipping, which is probably around 5 dollars since you say the seller shipped by first class.  Then, the cost of packaging.  If they used a brown envelope, and maybe bubble wrap, and tape, there's about 30 cents in that.  Plus time driving to the post office, printer paper, ink, etc.  So after all that, it's not like they're getting rich off this sale.  They probably pocketed about 10 or 15 dollars to sell a little jewelry to maybe buy a hamburger or a gallon of milk and loaf of bread.

Try to be gracious and don't rip the seller to shreds.  As a buyer, it's hard to see the other side of the transaction and what someone might actually be keeping after the sale.

[gurlcat]

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They could have found out that your payment didn't cover Priority when label was purchased at the post office.

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Even if they didn't use a Flat Rate box, the Priority label would have cost no more than $7-8.  So I definitely paid more than enough for one.  

[katzrul15]

@gurlcat 

I did read your entire post - twice as in the string, you questioned another poster, so wanted to be clear before I posted.

As a Seller, I would want every  opportunity to work with a Buyer, as I am certain you do as well.  Approaching each transaction the same way you would want your Buyer to approach it with you.

We're on a forum debating a transaction and items you have yet to receive.  To me, that signals that you are working to formulate a FB response now, before you ever receive the parcel. 

It reads (could be wrong) like you did not "like" the shipping amount, but was willing to engage in the listing as you wanted the items AND if you got it quickly, the excessive shipping would be worth it.  (you also commented that you were not in a hurry for the parcel, but some of the comments made in your posts contradict that)

I would ask this:

1)  Did you send a message to the Seller before you bid or before the Auction ended to ask about the shipping?

2)  You note that you saw this was a new-er Seller with FB issues and still bid.  Could you have worked to narrow some concerns by engaging with the Seller prior to bidding?

Personally, we all want every transaction to end well.  Just not possible - too many human variables.

I do think sometimes as a Seller, we are harder on other Sellers based on how "we" do business and when there is a deviation from that, we judge/grade "harsher" based on same.

Mean this as nicely as possible - your thread/posts are pre-mature.  

You need to await your parcel and afford your Seller the same opportunity as you the Seller would want from any of your Buyers - the opportunity to address any/all concerns and work to resolve them reasonably to your satisfaction.

(If your Seller is a new Seller, you might be "wowed" by the lot you receive that *might* be under-priced and a real deal.  You might not.  Hopefully your parcel will arrive soon.  All the best!)

[gurlcat]

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As to a Seller's Handling time?  I agree 150% that information should be prominent on the listing page, period.  Forget "estimated delivery" ... that's a subjective value depending on the carrier in many cases BUT I would like to know how soon the item will be shipped.

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I am very curious about why ebay did away with that, as I really want to know when I am weighing which seller to buy from, if multiple are offering the same thing and all other aspects are roughly equal.  Yes, the estimated delivery date is basically worthless.  Funny though, I remember seeing some sellers celebrating when ebay started obscuring handling times, the types who always seem to have an us-vs-them attitude about buyers, because buyers have expectations and gee what a drag that is, and then they wonder why they get returns, negs, lousy search placements, lousy sales, account restrictions, etc. LOL.   The more I buy on Ebay, the more it informs me on what makes a good seller, what reasonable expectations are, etc.  I suspect the 'get off my back!' sellers rarely if ever buy, so they just can't understand that side of it. 

[fab_finds4u]

PM has free insurance and box. FC doesn't and they could have paid for Ready Post supplies and insurance through another means so to say pocketed the difference might not be correct.  USPS says PM delivers in 1-3 days and FC package is 2-3 days.  Once I agree to a shipping cost and it comes within the expected date it was due  I wouldn't  care if it was dropped on my porch by a dang drone!   Just saying.....

[1786davycrockett · Accepted solution]

What the OP paid for was a TOTAL package -- the jewelry, PLUS the shipping method stated (that is, PROMISED) by the seller.  And the seller BROKE that promise, and shipped via USPS First Class, instead of USPS Priority, and the seller pocketed the excess shipping charges as extra profit -- which is wrong.

I have argued before -- and I will continue to argue -- that the seller has violated the inferred contact with the buyer, by "baiting and switching" the methods of shipment.

If the OP is NOT satisfied with the items once they have been delivered, the OP can certainly open a "not as described" case against the seller, since the seller switched to a cheaper shipping method, without reimbursing the buyer.

Or the OP can choose instead to leave neutral feedback, or even negative feedback, due to the "bait and switch" shipping.

Even though the seller seems to be rather unresponsive to the OP's emails, it would probably be a good idea for the OP to contact the seller (after receiving the jewelry), and request a refund from the seller for the excess shipping charges.  The OP should NOT mention offering negative feedback, or opening a NAD case -- but simply request the difference between USPS Priority prices and USPS First Class services.

If the seller responds with a refund, end of story.

If not -- there's always NAD, or neutral feedback -- or even negative feedback.

[gurlcat]

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@katzrul15 wrote:

@gurlcat 

1)  Did you send a message to the Seller before you bid or before the Auction ended to ask about the shipping?

2)  You note that you saw this was a new-er Seller with FB issues and still bid.  Could you have worked to narrow some concerns by engaging with the Seller prior to bidding?

I didn't think there was anything to ask. The one neutral and one neg she already had were about quality issues of the items that those people had bought, and honestly the neg was bizarrely written, not clear what the problem really was, if any.   The listing claimed the item would be shipped Priority, which would cost a minimum of $7 or $8 and I figured the other few bucks were her (ostensibly) acceptable compensation for shipping materials, labor, etc. I knew the jewelry did not NEED Priority because it couldn't weigh anywhere near a pound, but I know some sellers (especially new ones) use only Priority no matter how small the item, because they think FC is less trustworthy as it doesn't offer free insurance. Had she actually bought a Priority label, there would be no issue. 

So, I guess what I would ask you is, what would you write to a seller before bidding, under these circumstances, "Are you really going to ship Priority, or is that a lie?"  

[fab_finds4u]

Is a cheaper method always a downgrade? I thought a slower method is a downgrade. PM  is a subset of First Class. They both deliver by 3 days.

[katzrul15]

@gurlcat 

My questions to you were based on your comments in your posts.  If you thought the shipping was high - I have emailed a Seller to ask if the shipping is correct, as often it appears high and it is an error.

My point in posting to you is you are unhappy with this transaction and it is not yet over.  To me, the transaction is the "whole" transaction and not just the "shipping".

I again urge you to treat this Seller as you would want to also be treated by a Buyer.    As a Seller, if I have a Buyer who is unhappy, I would personally like the opportunity to see if the situation can be improved upon.  ymmv

[bashort]

"What would you do about this new-ish seller's bad practices (and/or similar ones)?"

Absolutely nothing, I have enough trouble worrying about my own bad practices