What's better, "as-is" or "used"?

[omgitlightsup]

I have a photo enlarger lamp that I want to sell. I'd be content to toss it, but I know that they are fairly rare and worth more than the value of scrap metal to someone who would use it. It's in perfect working condition.

I do not, however, want to hassle with a reseller who wants to juice me for a few more bucks if there's a problem with it. I have no idea how many hours are on the lamp or whether it exposes at the proper value. It could work for a million prints, or three for all I know.

Is it OK to list it as "as-is or for parts" with a photo that shows that it works? Is there any risk, other than a lower selling price, in not listing it as "used"? 

Does listing it "as-is or for parts" give me any protection whatsoever from SNADs or other post-sale issues? For the price I intend to insure it (and pack it properly), just in case it arrives smashed to bits.

After reading these forums a while I get this paranoid feeling that someone would buy it and extort me for a few more bucks because the label is slightly peeled away or because there's a kink in the power cord.

[omgitlightsup]

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@kattinsanity wrote:

Also, be sure to list it with a no return policy.  If you offer a return policy it means you have to accept the return no matter what the buyer claims~~and will most likely have to pay for the return shipping as well.

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Don't I pretty much have to accept returns no matter what? 

[rolenboy01]

I once had someone want to return a for parts/not working item because part of the item WORKED and they could not in good conscience use the item as they intended because a part of it worked.

[kattinsanity]

No, you don't.  I've had a "no return" policy for several years now and it has saved me several times.  I have had return requests because an item may smell of cigarette smoke~~I have a disclaimer in all my listings in BIG print.  I call ebay and they rule in my favor every time.  I have had buyers complain that an appliance part doesn't fit their appliance~~I have the option right there to deny the request in a "doesn't fit" complaint.

In your case~~don't even say the item works at all.  Just list it as "parts or repair/not working".  Leave it at that. (Don't say this or that works)  If someone complains it doesn't  work or quit working you are covered.

If you are worried, sell it on CL where it's cash on the spot and you don't have to worry about it coming back to haunt you.  You will save the cost & hassles of shipping it so you can afford to sell it cheaper.

[omgitlightsup]

Thanks for the input! to clarify.. it's just the lamp (an Aristo cold light). The rest of the enlarger went in the scrap bin as aluminum and brass, and I parted the optics out for art supplies. I agree with you; I would never dream of trying to sell a whole enlarger on eBay unless I had the original shipping materials and felt like completely disassembling it.

From looking at all the replies, I think I plan on listing it as-is and accepting returns but with shipping paid by the buyer. I happen to have a wealth of packing material from my last purchase that's more than adequate to protect it in transit, so I am fairly confident that it'll arrive working.

I could get a few bucks from the scrap yard given that it's all pretty much aluminum, iron, and copper, but I'm sure someone out there would pay $50 to keep it from being destroyed.

[kattinsanity]

"accepting returns but with shipping paid by the buyer".  The only way a buyer would have to pay return shipping is if it is a buyer remorse return.  With a return policy all the buyer has to do is file a SNAD and YOU will pay for return shipping whether you like it or not.  If you don't want to pay return shipping you have to refund the buyer in FULL including original shipping and let them keep the item.

On an "as is/parts or repair" item it's smarter to go with a no return policy unless you like throwing money down the toilet.  Remember~~buyers can take parts off it, file a SNAD , YOU pay return shipping and get back whatever they send you.  There is nothing you can do about it but give them their money back.

[omgitlightsup]

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@kattinsanity wrote:

"accepting returns but with shipping paid by the buyer".  The only way a buyer would have to pay return shipping is if it is a buyer remorse return.  With a return policy all the buyer has to do is file a SNAD and YOU will pay for return shipping whether you like it or not.  If you don't want to pay return shipping you have to refund the buyer in FULL including original shipping and let them keep the item.

On an "as is/parts or repair" item it's smarter to go with a no return policy unless you like throwing money down the toilet.  Remember~~buyers can take parts off it, file a SNAD , YOU pay return shipping and get back whatever they send you.  There is nothing you can do about it but give them their money back.

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I hear what you're saying... but can you explain to me on what grounds a buyer might return the item with a SNAD? If it's as-is or for parts only, and not guaranteed to work, the only type of return possible would be buyer's remorse.

What would he say if he opened a SNAD? That it's not the item I claimed? That it doesn't work? That it matches my description except for a scratch on the back that has nothing to do with the function?

Does eBay just automatically approve a SNAD?

A few years ago, I bought an item as-is which turned out to be far more disastrously broken than described. As the seller described it, it had some mechanical damage in a few spots which had been photographed up close. I looked over the info and asked a couple questions, and was confident that I could repair it with the parts and techniques available to me. But when I got the thing (a vintage music synthesizer), I realized that the damage was far more extensive and obvious from a broad view than was visible in the photos. It looked like it'd been run over several times by a car, and then left out in the driveway for a few rainstorms. There was hardly anything salvageable. Had the seller read and honestly answered my questions, I wouldn't have been surprised (nor would I have bid on it). 

But when I came in here and asked what other people thought, the responses were unanimous that I was the one who screwed up and that the seller had done no wrong; and if I'd opened a case it would be a slam dunk in his favor.

So I hope you see why I'm incredulous. I feel like return shipping by buyer gives someone an opportunity to at least recover part of his investment if he later decides it's not what he wanted. I would still be out the initial shipping. It's more fair than forcing him to dishonestly claim SNAD (which seems mutually exclusive with "as-is") just to settle things. 

[kattinsanity]

That seller was probably smart enough to have a no return policy.  When you have a return policy of 14 days or 30 days it means you accept the return for whatever logical (or illogical) reason the buyer claims.  If a buyer says he just changed his mind after receiving it or ordered the wrong item the return shipping is on the buyer--but if he is a experienced buyer he will claim that what he received wasn't what was listed.  Then the return shipping is on you.  I don't know why you don't want to have a "no return" policy on this item but any smart seller would have a "no return" policy on a "for parts/repair" item.

[omgitlightsup]

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@kattinsanity wrote:

That seller was probably smart enough to have a no return policy.  When you have a return policy of 14 days or 30 days it means you accept the return for whatever logical (or illogical) reason the buyer claims.  If a buyer says he just changed his mind after receiving it or ordered the wrong item the return shipping is on the buyer--but if he is a experienced buyer he will claim that what he received wasn't what was listed.  Then the return shipping is on you.  I don't know why you don't want to have a "no return" policy on this item but any smart seller would have a "no return" policy on a "for parts/repair" item.

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The seller's return policy wasn't the issue. (I believe he actually offered returns.) My point was that it was the unanimous opinion of all sellers that if a buyer bids on an "as-is" item, regardless of how poorly it's described, it's never the seller's fault. In other words, there is no recourse, even if the item was grossly misrepresented. Noone thought it was appropriate for me to contact the seller about my dissatisfaction. I didn't.

Example: I sell you a vase with a cracked handle, and when you open the box, super glue in hand, you find a million pieces. It was your fault for buying it "as-is," even though what I advertised and sold to you was two halves of a vase. You come in here and complain, and everyone tells you you got what you deserved.

Here's my logic for accepting returns:

Suppose I don't offer to accept returns and the seller decides he doesn't want it for whatever reason. His only recourse is a SNAD, or to make a subtle attempt at feedback extortion. Either one of those is risky for me.

But on the other hand, if I accept returns and the buyer changes his mind, again for any reason, he can mail it back to me on his dime and get some of his money back. It relieves him of the need to commit fraud to get what he wants, and it lessens the risk of me getting a defect because someone else had to lie to get what he wanted.

I show my good faith in letting the buyer return the item for some money if he's not satisfied, and trust that he's not going to waste my time and money by bidding on something he knew he didn't want in the first place.

I tend/want to believe that there are relatively few eBay members who insist on the "all-or-nothing" approach here. Yes, I realize that someone could feel buyer's remorse, smash it on the sidewalk, and then open a SNAD no matter what I do. But I don't think that happens very frequently.

I also feel pretty confident that if I post it without any information about whether it works, I will immediately be asked, "does it work?" Then what? Tell them I don't have electrical outlets in my house and can't test it? Lie and say it doesn't work at all? It works just fine.

[kattinsanity]

Maybe you haven't been keeping up with ebay policies over the years.  If I bought a vase with a cracked handle and it arrived in a million pieces you can bet I would file a case against the seller AND ebay would stand behind me 100% and would refund my money.  The same goes for an item that is misrepresented in the listing.

If it works just fine why are you even thinking of listing it as for parts or repair?  If it's a fine working item list it as a fine working item.

[kattinsanity]

Also, in your 1st post you said you don't know how many hours it has on it so don't know how long it may work or IF it exposes at the proper value.  Now you say it works just fine.  You are either planning on selling a piece that works or one that doesn't work properly~~it appears you don't know which it is.  Maybe it does belong in the scrap pile.

[omgitlightsup]

You may not be a photographer so you probably don't get what I'm talking about. Enlarger lamps are not the same as a decorative endtable lamp. The bulbs are good for only a few hours before they no longer provide the rated luminous flux. Just giving off light is not the same thing as giving off the rated exposure value.

A professional photographer would toss the bulb after a week of steady use. A hobby photographer would then root through that photographer's dumpster and take it home and use it for another year.

You can make a test exposure, measure the density in the finished print, and then adjust your exposure times to compensate for bulb decay. This is what most people do. Most people also understand that when you buy something like an enlarger lamp second- or third-hand, there could be an indeterminate number of hours left in its usable life.

You might think the vase comparison is inappropriate, but again, I bought the synth "for parts," expecting that the parts not described as damaged would be usable. But when I got the package and saw how extensive the damage was, I realized that there was not a usable part in the whole box. 

I guess you are saying that I should have approached the seller and/or opened a case, but I practically got laughed out of the forums for even suggesting it.

If my lamp arrived in less-than-working condition, it would still have usable parts, because I'd ship it properly.

If something is absolutely worthless, there is no point in putting it on eBay. Noone would buy it.

[a_c_green]

My take on the original question is that the terms are not mutually exclusive: the opposite of "used" is "new." The opposite of "as-is" is, well, "as-isn't," but "as-is" has no meaning here, because the item cannot be examined directly, only by photos and description, so a prospective buyer can't actually see what the item is in person. Selling an item in person at a garage sale, for example, is where "as-is" can actually mean something.

Getting back to the question of the lamp here: it's used, and can be described as working on that basis. You can show that much in a photo. Getting into minutaie over the exact wavelength of light put out by the bulb, or its relative age and so on, is probably not a level of detail you want to get into. If it's a serious concern, then either omit the bulb and sell the enlarger without it, or say that you're throwing the bulb in for free. (The bulb may arrive DOA anyway if the package gets rough handling along the way, something you might want to take into account.)