What Should Sellers do to Ward off the Empty Box Claim Epidemic? Any Recourse at All??

[katzrul15]

It seems like every day at least one or more, this board or another one, there are multiple posts about Buyer Fraud.  SNADs seem to be the "Go-TO" and now the "Empty Box Syndrome".

Suggestions as Sellers to combat this?  (Real ones, not just "don't sell expensive items")?  

If the target now is higher end items, how long before it is the mundane $40-50 every day run of the mill stuff(s)?    There have to be ways to work to mitigate the risk, but based on the current IND parameters on e-Bay, are there really?  

[simba6]

Sorry but that are no " real " ones.   Don't sell items you can't afford to lose is about the best you can do.

High value, easy to flip for cash have the most risk.  Now a pickle castor.........

[lagarto_electronico]

RFID asset tracking?

Imagine a seller selling an expensive computer. Buyer claims he received an empty box. Then the police electronically track the item to the house and knock on the buyer's door to assist him in finding the item he never received.

The seller could even mention in the auction that asset tracking for the item is included to guarantee safe delivery of the item at no cost to the buyer as a courtesy service.

[alcoforever]

Here is the best advice I've seen on the matter, courtesy of @ittybitnot 

/quote:

Dear buyer,

I am so sorry to hear that your parcel arrived without the contents.  I will do everything I can to assist you in this matter.  I will file the lost/rifled/stolen mail report (the report is called something else now, you will have look this up for the correct name)  with the United States Postal Inspectors on your behalf.  Even in these trying times they usually respond with a case number within 24 hours.  I will forward that to you when it is received so that you can track the progress of the investigation as well.  Do you have a daytime phone number that I can include in the report?  That way they can contact you directly as well. 

I will also speak to your local postmaster and mail carrier about this package.  If it had broken open, the USPS typically tags the box as such, so a photo of that stamp will actually help. Please keep the packing materials in case they are needed as well.   Thank you so much for your cooperation.  

Sincerely, 
you

It is my opinion that you should not make threats to your buyer.  It is better to sound like you are trying to help.  If they respond at all to you, you will know quite quickly as most honest buyers would be willing to cooperate fully.  You would be surprised at how many "missing contents" were miraculously found over the years.    /endquote

[gwzcomps]

RFID requires you to be close range generally.  I think you are thinking of GPS tags.  Still wouldn't change anything though.

[gwzcomps]

Hate to say it, but the only way to not get scammed by eBay is to not sell on eBay.

[nguy2476]

I think you shouldn't sell the high value items. It's kind like a solution lol.

[lagarto_electronico]

"RFID requires you to be close range generally. I think you are thinking of GPS tags. Still wouldn't change anything though."

If the item has an active RFID chip in it and the investigator visits the address it was delivered to, the investigator would then be within the range to detect the item.  It would not need to be monitored from a black helicopter full of Navy Seals from 1000 miles away using GPS tags (but if someone has the cash for that, why not).

However, my point was not really about the specific type of technology used but the concept of using it to begin with. If we start with a conclusion that the situation is impossible and then reason backwards so that all arguments arrive at that conclusion, how helpful are we really being?

[ittybitnot]

If the target now is higher end items, how long before it is the mundane $40-50 every day run of the mill stuff(s)?    There have to be ways to work to mitigate the risk, but based on the current IND parameters on e-Bay, are there really?  

@katzrul15 

Unfortunately, it includes the "mundane" stuff now as well.  eBay has found the way to "mitigate' the risk for EBAY (sellers pay).  The problem has gotten worse now that claims/returns are automated and CS is no longer allowed to help.  

I sell on another website that has a buyer guarantee as well.  The difference is the buyer has three days to file a complaint.  If they do file, it is not a "one click" you win situation like here.  Documentation is required, with specific steps and requirements that include photos.  

After the three days with no problems I get to keep the money.  I am no longer liable for any subsequent chargebacks....EVER from that transaction. FINAL SALE.    If a return is allowed,  the website pays for the label. 

They promptly remove buyers as needed, and once you are gone, that is it.  I don't know how they track it, but they do and are good at their job.  One person gets ONE ID, there isn't any of this "just get a new buyer ID" when the one you are using to scam is getting on the radar a little too much.  I will never forget the declaration made years ago  by some eBay VP:  "We want ALL buyers, even if they are bad. " That attitude is still apparent on eBay today. 

I don't know what the answer is, but eBay needs to cooperate.  Hopefully, you will get a lot of ideas and input here, that may lead to a solution.   The saying two heads are better one....we need few hundred or more!!!  

[lagarto_electronico]

"Hate to say it, but the only way to not get scammed by eBay is to not sell on eBay."

I once heard people could also get scammed outside of eBay. 

For the most part, I agree with your assessment that eBay is a perilous platform and a waste of time for any seller that does not have the resources of a corporation.

However, there is no crime in imagining ways that it could be better.

[ittybitnot]

Here is the best advice I've seen on the matter, courtesy of @ittybitnot 

@alcoforever 

That advice was just one suggestion to do AFTER the empty box claim has been made.  I may be wrong, but I think the OP is looking for some ideas on how to curb the false filing of these claims.  The letter won't work if you sent your laptop to one of those freight forwarders anyway.  The buyer is in Russia....'they don't care about any Postal Inspectors'.....LOL. 

As I stated upthread, whatever solution can be found, it is going to have to have the cooperation of eBay.  Right now it is the eBay policies that make it so easy.  There would have to be no more of this "part of doing business" nonsense,  or "found in favor of the buyer" (and no you can't see the police report we required and used against you).  

Would they limit a PERSON or address  to two MBG claims a year?  

[gwzcomps]

S/N would be good enough if the investigator would have to be in range of the item.

It is impossible to stop because eBay facilitates the fraud.  Why give false hope when there is borderline nothing a seller can do to convince eBay the buyer is wrong?

[gwzcomps]

"I once heard people could also get scammed outside of eBay."

Sure but it is reasonable to assume OP is referring to selling on eBay.

[magicjohnsonsvariety]

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@lagarto_electronico wrote:

"RFID requires you to be close range generally. I think you are thinking of GPS tags. Still wouldn't change anything though."

If the item has an active RFID chip in it and the investigator visits the address it was delivered to, the investigator would then be within the range to detect the item.  It would not need to be monitored from a black helicopter full of Navy Seals from 1000 miles away using GPS tags (but if someone has the cash for that, why not).

However, my point was not really about the specific type of technology used but the concept of using it to begin with. If we start with a conclusion that the situation is impossible and then reason backwards so that all arguments arrive at that conclusion, how helpful are we really being?

---

I like your idea but is seems at least 50 years early. It could certainly work. Getting all police departments on board to such technology might be slow going, and getting all courts on board to such technology would be even slower going. I'm retired PD, and I know an officer would have no right to just knock on someone's door.  A search warrant would be needed to enter the home.

Would it be attached to the actual product or the outside of the box? Either way it could be found and discarded. Good idea though maybe someday.

[katzrul15]

I did mean on E-bay, but I sell on River also and lots of you sell other places.

It won't be long before it bleeds everywhere, if it hasn't already.

Never used to worry about this stuff.  We have been hit 4 times in 2 months with folks claiming an issue with something New/Sealed.  

We don't sell electronics or computers or processors etc.  We sell mundane items.  And now, we're as much a target as anyone else.

And yes, I love ittys letter - but was trying to brainstorm to prevent needing her letter.

This learning thing tacked at the board top.  Really smart people on this board - who would be willing to present on this for this virtual gig??