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We're Doomed

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We're Doomed


@luckythewinnerwrote:

@magicjohnsonsvarietywrote:

 I doubt the intent of Congress was to ever have lawful people get banned from sites or to limit legitimate ecommerce, but this has been the case from the fallout of this law.

 

I also doubt the intent of congress was to ban american citizens from selling an ENTIRE product brand......both of which are 100% ebay added on rules. My point is, following the law is fine but adding on to it is not......


The whole discussion of VERO in this thread arose from someone asserting that big-box stores got together and paid eBay to create the VERO program, which I suggested was absurd.

 

Now the debate seems to have veered off into suggesting that the DMCA and VERO are responsible for every heavy-handed eBay policy regarding what items they choose to let sellers list here.

 

I would suggest these problems are a result of this clause in the user agreement ...

 

"We reserve the right to refuse or terminate all or part of our Services to anyone for any reason at our discretion."

 

... rather than a result of the DMCA or the VERO process.


Yup, blanket statements such as this are used in many agreements/contracts these days, it's purpose is to negate protection the law is supposed to allow.

 

Although large companies benefit from Vero immensely, I do agree with you that ebay probably didn't accepted money to start Vero. We know it was started in response to being sued, by Tiffany I believe, and even though ebay won, it was probably not fun.

 

And the letter I received was specifically in reference to an ongoing case regarding a recent take down...so, yes, my censorship to sell this particular brand is in fact a direct result of Vero.

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We're Doomed


@percgrabbe-0wrote:

Dont you think huge industries like cosmetics and fragrance have billions of dollars at their disposal to bribe congress to create something like VERO so they dont lose sales on line to small time sellers? They were late to the party. This is their idea of making up for lost sales (to steal yours).  VERO might be a law but so is collecting sales tax and ebay sure doesnt do that with every sale nor does it choose to enforce that law. They leave it up to the seller. The same would be true for VERO. EBAY cant get sued for violation of VERO. They dont sell anything. Sellers on ebay do and they are independent. Its all just excuses. 


VeRO is not a law.  It is a program created by ebay for ebay.

Sherry

=^.^= =^.^=
( ) ( )
" " =^.^= " "
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@magicjohnsonsvarietywrote:

Yup, blanket statements such as this are used in many agreements/contracts these days, it's purpose is to negate protection the law is supposed to allow.

One of the biggest misconception on this board is that a sellers' rights somehow  extend to eBay. 

 

The first amendment grants a seller the right to free speech, but it does not grant that right on eBay's website. 

 

First sale doctrine grants  a seller the right to resell an item that he has legally purchased, but it does not grant that right on eBay's website

 

When eBay puts that blanket statement into their user ageement, that is not an example of a seller's rights being "negated" ; it is an example of eBay's rights being affirmed

 

eBay is not negating your right to sell an item - you are completely free to set up your own website and sell it there.  There is no law that protects your right to sell anything on eBay's site. 

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@luckythewinnerwrote:

@magicjohnsonsvarietywrote:

Yup, blanket statements such as this are used in many agreements/contracts these days, it's purpose is to negate protection the law is supposed to allow.

There is no law that protects your right to sell anything on eBay's site. 


Clearly there must be some law that does. The Vero (ebay) employee who messaged me back said if I don't agree with the copyright holders decision, or if I truly believe the copyright holder is outright lying, to seek the assitance of an attorney. 

 

Now why would she mention that as a possible route to take if, as you say, there are no consumer rights whatsoever on ebay???...come on, man.

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I  am trying to sort this out as well.

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@magicjohnsonsvarietywrote:


Ebay may be following the law, but Banning people, or threatening to ban people for selling things they lawfully own is an ebay policy, and has nothing to do with congress.

 

Ebay can ban anyone who does not follow their policies. There is no law that says Ebay has to let sellers list their items here. The good news is if you want to sell a particular item that Ebay does not allow, you can do it anywhere you choose other than Ebay. That of course is if the other place does not also have a policy forbidding specific items to be sold.

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@magicjohnsonsvarietywrote:
The Vero (ebay) employee who messaged me back said if I don't agree with the copyright holders decision, or if I truly believe the copyright holder is outright lying, to seek the assitance of an attorney.   

Now why would she mention that as a possible route to take if, as you say, there are no consumer rights whatsoever on ebay???...come on, man.


VERO is a program where intellectual property rights owners can file a NOCI ("Notice Of Claimed Infringement") with eBay, and to remain within the safe harbor provision of the DMCA eBay will take the item down. 

 

If you disagree with what the VERO member who reported you did, then you can take legal action against the VERO member.  The DMCA and VERO are specificially designed to keep eBay out of the legal process, and leave that dispute between you and the VERO member because the VERO member is not eBay.  

 

By the way, you can hire a lawyer to sue anyone (assuming the lawyer is willing to file the suit). You do not need to have a solid legal footing to file a lawsuit; you only need  it to win a lawsuit. 

 

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To finish the thought: 

 

You have a right under the law to stop someone outside eBay from using the DMCA to improperly interfere without your ability to list an item on eBay. 

 

But your ability to list on eBay is not a right, it is a privilege that eBay chooses to extend to you and it is a privilege that eBay also has the right under the law to deny to you at any time for any reason. 

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@mg152wrote:
I have to say I’m concerned this time too. Time to diversify

I agree.  Changing from a yearly subscription to a monthly in November and been lising on other sites as well.  I was always a true dyed in the wool e bay seller.  Not anymore.  I will not purchase new on here either.  the river is my go to place for that.

This quest stands on the edge of a blade...stray but a little and you shall fail to the ruin of us all.
"The Lady Galadriel"
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@luckythewinnerwrote:

To finish the thought: 

 

You have a right under the law to stop someone outside eBay from using the DMCA to improperly interfere without your ability to list an item on eBay. 

 

 


Exactly,

 

I could take the ebay employees advice and hire an attorney,  which will most likely get my $50 listing reinstated for an approx. loss of - $1,450.

So in principle I would win...but the only real winner would be my attorney.

 

Dishonest companies know this and it's why they will almost always win by default...so that leaves this cosmetics company free to take down everything they see with complete immunity.

 

Even if I got clearance I wouldn't trust ebay with anything short of a notorized document signed by the chief justice of the supreme court. How many people have posted here about having items pulled even after getting clearance? Lots...  

 

You are missing my point on the corruption angle....

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