Watch authentication - disputing an authenticator's finding regarding condition

[jjcohen11]

I recently had a sale of a vintage watch reversed when the authenticator reported to the buyer that the dial had been refinished. There is no dispute regarding the authenticity or the mechanical condition of the watch itself. Rather, the authenticator claims that I didn't adequately describe its condition.  Note that the listing included a ton of good quality closeups - absolutely nothing was hidden.

There is no process for disputing an authenticator's finding, which, in this case, I believe to be incorrect.

Has anyone else been through this?

[kensgiftshop]

Did you mention in your description that the dial had been refinished?

If you didn't, it wasn't as described.

[jjcohen11]

I did not mention the dial was refinished, because I do not believe it was. I purchased this from a reputable seller, and there was never any indication that the dial had been refinished. As I said, I believe the authenticator is incorrect.

[fab_finds4u]

It's  like it is  between the buyer and the seller where eBay takes the word of the buyer. They can't tell who is right or wrong, they just have the buyer return it.

When it comes to your word or the authenticator's word eBay is going to take the word of the authenticator. They are going to have  the authenticator return it.

Relist it after it is returned and mention the dial has been  refinished.

[jjcohen11]

Listing a watch like this on eBay as having a refinished dial is the kiss of death. 

I plan on selling it elsewhere, as eBay is no longer the only game in town. 

[a_c_green]

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@jjcohen11 wrote:

I did not mention the dial was refinished, because I do not believe it was.

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I agree that your listing for the Eberhard Monopusher was extremely detailed, and that there would be no reason to describe the dial as refinished if you had no reason to believe that it was. (I do see one inconsistency elsewhere: your Item Specific for Case Finish states "Polished," but your description says, "The solid 18K gold case appears to be unpolished." I doubt that was a factor here.)

But that aside, the watch is now on record as being unauthenticated, so I would sell that example elsewhere. Relisting it here would probably put it back in the hands of the same Eberhard authenticator all over again.

[tobaccocardyahoo]

The authenticator is hired for his/her expertise and expected to apply it.

You apparently, based on your comments, relied on trust in the expertise and honesty of your supplier.

I would believe the authenticator, and if he/she is correct, you needed to explicitly state the defect, photos are not an adequate substitute for identifying the flaw.

We all miss some flaws, some of which can devalue an item substantially. It appears to be your turn,

[albertabrightalberta]

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@jjcohen11 wrote:

Listing a watch like this on eBay as having a refinished dial is the kiss of death. 

I plan on selling it elsewhere, as eBay is no longer the only game in town. 

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What makes you think your next buyer won't have it appraised and come back with the same finding? 

Personally, I'd disclose that it's possible it was refinished although there's little if any evidence and that you really aren't sure. 

[albertabrightalberta]

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@a_c_green wrote:

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@jjcohen11 wrote:

I did not mention the dial was refinished, because I do not believe it was.

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But that aside, the watch is now on record as being unauthenticated, so I would sell that example elsewhere. Relisting it here would probably put it back in the hands of the same Eberhard authenticator all over again.

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But it's not that it's unauthenticated. It was authenticated and the issue was with condition/disclosure and NOT with authenticity. (The listing wouldn't be viewable had it been determined to be counterfeit.)

In other AG guaranteed categories, they have also found issues with differences between description/pictures/disclosure and what they found when they assessed the items. 

In some categories of AG items, buyers are informed if a difference is found between the listing and the condition of the actual authentic item, the buyer is offered to receive the item anyway if they are okay with the discrepancy. I don't believe watch buyers have that option.

[a_c_green]

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@albertabrightalberta wrote:

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@a_c_green wrote:

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@jjcohen11 wrote:

I did not mention the dial was refinished, because I do not believe it was.

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But that aside, the watch is now on record as being unauthenticated, so I would sell that example elsewhere. Relisting it here would probably put it back in the hands of the same Eberhard authenticator all over again.

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But it's not that it's unauthenticated. It was authenticated and the issue was with condition/disclosure and NOT with authenticity. (The listing wouldn't be viewable had it been determined to be counterfeit.)

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Mm, yeah; poor wording on my part... What I meant was that the watch was now on record as failing the authentication process (regardless of whether the seller or authenticator was correct on the details about its condition), so there's no point in trying to list it again here, as it would end up following the same authentication route all over again, more than likely with the same result.