Victim of Buyer Fraud, eBay helps the Scammer

[ja_jo_ma_du]

I am posting this inspired by a previous post of @davebhop about buyer fraud here, the post was 4 years ago and we are in a similar situation. There is no improvement from eBay over the past 4 years.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Victim-of-buyer-fraud/td-p/28471713/page/17

I sold a Macbook Pro 13 M1 chip for $965 three weeks ago on eBay, which was fully tested before shipping and was in perfect condition, in the original box with the original charger. The buyer received the item and claimed that the touch bar was not working, which I know was not true. He then started a return, which eBay told me that I had to accept because of the buyer protection policy. eBay then gave me four days to generate a return label out of my own pocket for that person to return the item, which was not fair, but I did. However, that person did not use my USPS return label and shipped my item to an older address of mine eBay had on file.  They shipped via UPS and the tracking number showed that the item was delivered, eBay then closed the case in the buyer's favor.

I asked the people who currently live at that address, they had not received the package. I had to call eBay to ask for that tracking number, which the buyer refused to give to me. I then called the UPS, they confirm with me that the delivered package weight was 0.40lb (which showed clearly in the delivery proof as well), and the person paid the exact postage for 0.40lb. The UPS agent was sure that the package cannot be the Macbook Pro I sold in its original box plus the charger- it should be over 5lbs! The UPS agent also told me that the package recipient was NOT my name, and NOT my address either, only in the same ZIP code. I then realized why the buyer used UPS,  because they knew the tracking page of UPS does not show the receiver's name and the address, only "delivered to the residence" and the city name. I have the recording of this conversation with the UPS agent on file. 

To add, this buyer had a seller review a year ago with the warning, "Do not sell to this person, they would start a return and never return your item back." This review, somehow, was not available to me when I sold my Macbook Pro, and I was only able to see it after I have shipped the item to them. 

I have been in telephone calls with eBay customer services for over a week on this issue, ever since the buyer started that return, I tried to warn eBay that this was a fraud buyer from their record. But my effort was futile and I have witnessed eBay letting the fraud buyer rob my computer step by step. The newest progress is eBay is going to deduct the money from my account in the next 3 days, plus the listing fee of almost 200 dollars. Now I lost the computer, and eBay is also making 200 dollars from my loss. 

I have been using eBay for 20 years and never had I felt this disappointed and betrayed. I don't know if I have to go with the litigation process. Are there other sellers here who had similar experiences and had also been sabotaged by eBay? Should we talk about a class action?

[monica-sells]

"...However, that person did not use my USPS return label and shipped my item to an older address of mine eBay had on file...."

curious...how is this even possible?

[sodelight]

I'm sorry this happened to you. Ebay is not a safe place to sell tech and electronic items. You can pretty much count on sooner or later being defrauded, as it's too easy for a buyer to lie. I learned this years ago when I simply sold an old fashioned telephone. Buyer claimed it didn't work. Of course it was a false claim, but I took it back, and it worked perfectly fine. Same thing with a hard drive, this time I just let the buyer keep it. These items weren't worth more than $50. I can't imagine risking an item worth hundreds. You need to weigh your potential risk selling high value tech here. There are many honest buyers, but the number of scammers aren't worth the stress and risk selling something that ends up costing you the item and $$!  Your better off making the deal IN PERSON only or selling for less money directly to a local tech store who deals in pre-owned items.

The user agreement prevents any class action being taken against ebay. 

[ja_jo_ma_du]

I think it was my fault that I did not update my "return address" with eBay after I moved. I don't use the seller portal that often so I didn't notice. So this person had eBay's return address of me that they obtained from eBay. eBay clearly did not care that my current shipping address they have on file does not match the "return address" and gave it to them regardless. This buyer must have noticed that the address that I shipped to them and "the return address" are different, and they had a chance. Luckily the people who are living at my old address are my friends. So I could check with them about the package. 

Pro Tip: eBay's shipping address and return address are two different addresses. You need to change them both after you move. 

[m60driver]

You are clearly a new/infrequent seller.  The shame on Ebay is not just that they facilitate fraud but that they even allow a a new/infrequent seller like yourself to list an expensive electronic item that is very high on the target list of grifters who prey upon new/infrequent sellers.  Alas, we have all seen over the past few years that grifting has become a national pastime.  So America :

Grift again like we did last summer
Come on grift again, like we did last year

[ja_jo_ma_du]

Thank you for your input! I have learnt it the hard way that I will not sell anything valuable on eBay anymore. 

I am still fight to get my money back though. I have also noticed that eBay prevents class action against them. However, this term is voided when damage is caused; in other words, if eBay violated the agreements first by causing harm to the users, then the user is not abode by the terms either.  

I have noticed that eBay had been sued over class action of sellers before, and they paid: 

https://www.ecommercebytes.com/2015/12/09/ebay-hands-credits-sellers-settle-lawsuit/

Someone else also sued eBay on a similar issue of mine: 

https://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/blog/blog.pl?/pl/2021/6/1622901051.html

The scammers and eBay cannot take advantage of people that easily. 

[monica-sells]

so ebay sent them a return label (usps) with the wrong address on it?

the buyer transcribed that address to UPS?  They did not use the provided label?

[ja_jo_ma_du]

I don't know how eBay had worked out with the buyer, but one customer service agent from eBay told me they did try to send him an eBay generated return label and he did not use that label either. The buyer only used the address they obtained from eBay and made a UPS return. I can't help but wonder if eBay (or someone inside eBay) is involved in the whole process. 

[kensgiftshop]

@ja_jo_ma_du 

You need to get a letter from UPS stating that the package was not addressed to, just in your zip code.

Have them state the weight of the package and there would be no way it could be a laptop.

File mail fraud and a police report, then use the letter and reports to appeal the case.

[q.oo]

I feel you, man! This really does not sound fair to you! I hope your issue is going to be eventually taken care of. eBay should act on their part, not waiting for justice being done by the police department 

[ja_jo_ma_du]

Thank you for your input! 

The UPS tracking page for the package actually has a "proof of delivery" that clearly showed the weight of the package, and the person who signed the package, which was not my name. I have already filed an appeal with eBay, and submitted the "proof of delivery" evidence and the UPS recording. I think this is sufficient evidence to eBay that my computer was not returned, but I heard nothing from them.  

UPS would not tell me the exact address the package went to and the person it was mailed to, since I was not the recipient for that package.  I am going to file the mail fraud and a police report, as you suggested! Perhaps the police can help me obtain that information. 

[ja_jo_ma_du]

The newest update, eBay just charged me the whole amount of the computer that it was sold for. 

eBay just helped the scammer to rob my computer, and they also made money from it. What a win for eBay! 

[free.deal]

The Similar situation happened to me last year. similar item, too (mine was brand new and sold for $1k). The buyer did use my shipping label, but he altered the shipping address. The return was delivered to a home 2 miles away in my city. It was an empty yellow padded envelope. Of course, buyer got the full money from my pocket... I managed to get a letter from the shipping courier and police report from buyer's police station to appeal. Still no avail. In the end, I filed BBB to eBay, and eBay finally issued the courtesy money less FVF back after 3-month fight... To my surprise, I just checked buyer's account and it is still alive....

[mr_lincoln]

jasmen@ebay, velvet@ebay , devon@ebay 

I thought it would be good to loop you in on this thread because this Buyer return address scam has been around for quite some time and the Buyer referenced in this thread is obviously extremely knowledgeable about how eBay - UPS - USPS works ...

So here's the question ... what is eBay doing to stop this kind of scam??? ... its mail fraud at the least and outright stealing at the most. 

Regards,

Mr. L

[monica-sells]

"...eBay then gave me four days to generate a return label out of my own pocket for that person to return the item, which was not fair, but I did...."

If you generated a 'return label' it would have shown your 'old address'

did you not notice that? that being said...

the ONLY tracking number that should be relevant to establishing a return is  is your generated label

suggest you contact the facebook support....