Vero takedown, because Micheal Kors claims no one is allowed to sell their watches.

[leadgard9]

Anyone else have these? One was for a listing I sold a month ago, that the buyer or seller has access to anymore. Guess it sucks for him if he wants to open an ebay claim? Good job ebay.

What law was broken?
Apparently I can't use their name to sell their product, for which I bought myself?

according to Federal Law, you may:

• Use pictures of the actual item you are selling.
• Use descriptions of the actual item your are selling, even if you take these descriptions word-for-word from the packaging of the item.
• Re-sell items you have bought as long as you have not significantly altered the items.
• Use names and phrases directly connected with these items and under which they are marketed.
• Sell any item which you have lawfully obtained, provided it does not itself infringe

Use the name of the company or the item you are selling

The first-sale doctrine is a limitation upon copyright that was recognized by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1908 and subsequently codified in the Copyright Act of 1976, 17 U.S.C. § 109. The doctrine of first sale allows the purchaser to transfer (i.e. sell or give away) a particular, lawfully made copy of the protected work without permission once it has been obtained. That means the distribution rights of a copyright holder end on that particular copy once the copy is lawfully transferred.

How is ebay just allowing someone to break federal law like this?

[sam9876]

Appeal the VERO takedown.  Simple.

[luckythewinner]

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@leadgard9wrote:

What law was broken?

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No law was broken. A claim was filed with ebay under the umbrella of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). 

The DMCA provides websites with a "safe harbor" from liability for the actions of their users, as long as the website agrees to promptly take down any content after an intellectual property owner files a Notice of Claimed Infringement with the website. 

It is not eBay's job to determine the validity of the claim or to interpret intellectual property law - their job is simply to respond to the takedown claim by promptly removing the disputed content. 

If you are confident that you have not infringed any of the VERO claimant's intellectual property, you can file an appeal with eBay (which is referred to as a " counter-notice" in DMCA parlance).

If you file a counter-notice and Michael Kors does not take further action within 10 days (such as initiating  legal proceedings against you or seeking a court injunction), the content can be restored without affecting eBay's safe harbor protection. 

A couple of notes about a counter-notice: 

1) You had better be very sure of your listing's compliance with the law, because a counter-notice is essentially daring the VERO claimant to escalate their claim to the courts. 

2) Even if you file the counter-notice, the law does not require eBay to restore the listing. eBay's user agreement grants them the right deny any of all of their service to anyone at any time for any reason.

[a*river*runs*through*it]

You might want to take pictures of the actual Swiss Army watch you have to sell.

[leadgard9]

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@a*river*runs*through*itwrote:

You might want to take pictures of the actual Swiss Army watch you have to sell.

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Ebay is literally going to have all their sellers selling using their catalog with stock photos. So no, no I might not want to, as I have not had an issue even ONCE in the 5 years I've been selling.

[a*river*runs*through*it]

I'm curious... did you take your own pictures of the MK watch? Or did you appropriate them from a website?

Using the Ebay catalog is a whole lot different than taking them from a website w/o permission.

[magicjohnsonsvariety]

Right now, Ebays law is more powerful than Federal law.

And it seems what the law says and what companies are allowed to get away with are 2 completely different things.

With consumer rights so easily violated, it's time lawmakers step up and do something. 

[gotta-get-stuff]

Bingo. What was the takedown ACTUALLY for? It certainly wouldn't be for selling a legit MK watch with pictures you are allowed to use(ie one you took, etc.).

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@a*river*runs*through*itwrote:

I'm curious... did you take your own pictures of the MK watch? Or did you appropriate them from a website?

Using the Ebay catalog is a whole lot different than taking them from a website w/o permission.

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[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

It seems like Ebay is taking down more sketchy listings for designer bags and other items lately. Almost all the complaints I see on the fashion board either were counterfeit OR had bad pictures or no provenance. Ebay is in the business of protecting buyers' money. You need to have your ducks in a row to sell designer.

I would be surprised if OP listed a real MK watch with good pictures and was taken down. The first sale doctrine only applies to provably authentic goods.

[leadgard9]

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@gotta-get-stuffwrote:

Bingo. What was the takedown ACTUALLY for? It certainly wouldn't be for selling a legit MK watch with pictures you are allowed to use(ie one you took, etc.).

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@a*river*runs*through*itwrote:

I'm curious... did you take your own pictures of the MK watch? Or did you appropriate them from a website?

Using the Ebay catalog is a whole lot different than taking them from a website w/o permission.

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Parallel Import Violation - Unauthorized Item. Had absolutely nothing to do with pictures. MK is asking ebay to take down all MK watches, based on what ebay told me.

[leadgard9]

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@the*dog*ate*my*tableclothwrote:

It seems like Ebay is taking down more sketchy listings for designer bags and other items lately. Almost all the complaints I see on the fashion board either were counterfeit OR had bad pictures or no provenance. Ebay is in the business of protecting buyers' money. You need to have your ducks in a row to sell designer.

I would be surprised if OP listed a real MK watch with good pictures and was taken down. The first sale doctrine only applies to provably authentic goods.

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I've sold $25,000 through ebay, with ZERO complaints on authenticity. You're talking about $100 watches. There are literally 1000's listed from singapore and China and other such countries. You can't just claim not authentic, without having a reason. a 5 year long established seller with zero complaints isn't a valid reason.

[emerald40]

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@leadgard9wrote:

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@gotta-get-stuffwrote:

Bingo. What was the takedown ACTUALLY for? It certainly wouldn't be for selling a legit MK watch with pictures you are allowed to use(ie one you took, etc.).

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@a*river*runs*through*itwrote:

I'm curious... did you take your own pictures of the MK watch? Or did you appropriate them from a website?

Using the Ebay catalog is a whole lot different than taking them from a website w/o permission.

---

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Parallel Import Violation - Unauthorized Item. Had absolutely nothing to do with pictures. MK is asking ebay to take down all MK watches, based on what ebay told me.

_______________________________________________

Just did a search for Michael Kors watch and got over 25,000 + listings.

Do not believe everything ebay CS tells you.

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[threshold.sales.group]

OP, you are 100% correct on the law.  The problem is that the VeRO program doesn't sort out legit claims vs. bogus ones. The first step is to just have the listing removed on the basis of the VeRO member's claim alone. The notice should have included instructions for an appeal. Do so noting everything you mentioned per the First Sale Doctrine (lawfully sourced, no claims to be an authorized dealer, not using MK copyrights or trademarks).  It's been my experience that *eventually* the listing will be reinstated.   In the meantime don't relist it. 

[leadgard9]

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@emerald40wrote:

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@leadgard9wrote:

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@gotta-get-stuffwrote:

Bingo. What was the takedown ACTUALLY for? It certainly wouldn't be for selling a legit MK watch with pictures you are allowed to use(ie one you took, etc.).

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@a*river*runs*through*itwrote:

I'm curious... did you take your own pictures of the MK watch? Or did you appropriate them from a website?

Using the Ebay catalog is a whole lot different than taking them from a website w/o permission.

---

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Parallel Import Violation - Unauthorized Item. Had absolutely nothing to do with pictures. MK is asking ebay to take down all MK watches, based on what ebay told me.

_______________________________________________

Just did a search for Michael Kors watch and got over 25,000 + listings.

Do not believe everything ebay CS tells you.

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Yes, and they told me that those will be removed as well, because MK is reporting them all. . Mine just happened to be first on the chopping block.

[a*river*runs*through*it]

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@leadgard9wrote:

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@emerald40wrote:

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@leadgard9wrote:

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@gotta-get-stuffwrote:

Bingo. What was the takedown ACTUALLY for? It certainly wouldn't be for selling a legit MK watch with pictures you are allowed to use(ie one you took, etc.).

---

@a*river*runs*through*itwrote:

I'm curious... did you take your own pictures of the MK watch? Or did you appropriate them from a website?

Using the Ebay catalog is a whole lot different than taking them from a website w/o permission.

---

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Parallel Import Violation - Unauthorized Item. Had absolutely nothing to do with pictures. MK is asking ebay to take down all MK watches, based on what ebay told me.

_______________________________________________

Just did a search for Michael Kors watch and got over 25,000 + listings.

Do not believe everything ebay CS tells you.

---

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Yes, and they told me that those will be removed as well, because MK is reporting them all. . Mine just happened to be first on the chopping block.

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The Ebay CS rep is telling you what you want to hear to get you off the phone.

MK is not removing all the listings. They would have no legal right to do so.

They can however remove listings that use pics and/or text taken from their website w/o express permission.

You are being lied to.

"Parallel Import Violation - Unauthorized Item."

That sure sounds like MK claimed yours was a counterfeit.

Again, did you take your own picture?