eBay

makosuke · ‎08-31-2022

I had the first-time experience of having a rather boring listing for a pair of open-box older-generation Apple AirPods removed due to the counterfeit listing policy.

(Not that this matters, but no, they're not counterfeit; I got them direct from Apple with a back-to-school promo and after sitting around unused for a while decided there was no point in keeping them.)

I'm well aware that eBay can and will do whatever they want with any and all listings, and I have absolutely no recourse, so I'm trying to learn from the experience of what I did wrong given that the item isn't counterfeit.

The listing didn't have any of what I would have considered "red flags"; the item isn't counterfeit (of course), it had a non-boilerplate description, I took my own photos, the price was if anything a bit on the high side, shipped and sold from US, and I've been on eBay since the previous century with 100% positive feedback (including a lot of much-more-expensive Apple gear).

Since I had done none of the "don't do this" things in the list, my best guess is that it was because I covered the serial number in the photo of the box, which the item policy email implied was not allowed, something I was not aware of. In hindsight, I don't think there's any need for this anyway, but I've reflexively done it for years and didn't realize it was going to cause problems since obscuring serial numbers at least used to be extremely common. (Heck, I listed a used Apple TV on the same day and did the same thing with its serial number, but that one is still up.)

Anyone with similar experiences have suggestions of other mistakes that might make the eBay bots angry? Looking now, there seem to be quite a few listings way more sketchy than mine, so either I have terrible luck or I did something weird.

I'm also curious if anyone has experience with the "Do not relist this item" warning; I could of course take new photos (and not cover the serial number this time), but I'd be worried about that triggering something worse for my account in the long run.

toysaver · ‎08-31-2022

"I'm also curious if anyone has experience with the "Do not relist this item" warning;"

Don't do it. You are on the radar and will be suspended.

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dnasilver · ‎08-31-2022

If you are 100% sure they are not counterfeit, then I would contact eBay. eBay cannot just willy nilly say something is counterfeit, they have to be able to prove it, just as you have to be able to prove they are real. It is not legal to make false claims and damage ones person/business. It is up to you if it is worth fighting for. Laws have to be followed by all and one cannot change laws to suit their business. Market places have to allow all to sell an item under the same rules, they cannot discriminate. Only you can determine if it is worth it. You may win but lose the right to sell anything on eBay or maybe not.

m60driver · ‎08-31-2022

@dnasilver wrote:
eBay cannot just willy nilly say something is counterfeit,

Ebay might not be able to just willy nilly say something is counterfeit, but that is debatable. But certainly "rights holders" can willy nilly say something is counterfeit and Ebay will take down the listing as a VERO violation.

simba6 · ‎08-31-2022

There is little one can learn. Items are flagged by bots and the people that review it know nothing about the items. There is not much you can do. Never relist them as you can be suspended from selling for life. eBay does keep a record of removed items.

makosuke · ‎08-31-2022

Comments and thoughts appreciated.

@dnasilver wrote:

eBay cannot just willy nilly say something is counterfeit, they have to be able to prove it, just as you have to be able to prove they are real. It is not legal to make false claims and damage ones person/business. It is up to you if it is worth fighting for. Laws have to be followed by all and one cannot change laws to suit their business.

While I am not a lawyer, the eBay terms of service we all agreed to in order to sell on the site unequivocally state otherwise. From Section 3 (emphasis mine):

If we believe you are abusing eBay and/or our Services in any way, we may, in our sole discretion and without limiting other remedies, limit, suspend, or terminate your user account(s) and access to our Services, delay or remove hosted content, remove any special status associated with your account(s), remove, not display, and/or demote listings, reduce or eliminate any discounts, and take technical and/or legal steps to prevent you from using our Services.

[...]

Additionally, we reserve the right to refuse, modify, or terminate all or part of our Services to anyone for any reason at our discretion.

They could terminate all or part of their service to you for any reason at all, if they feel like it, and additionally it only says that they need to believe--not prove or have evidence--that you're doing something prohibited in order to cancel an auction or even remove your account. One could of course try to argue otherwise in a legal situation, but virtually no one has the resources to do so, even if there was a chance of success.

Of note, I also don't se how one would argue that they're making false claims about a person or business, since there was no public statement that "this person tried to sell a counterfeit item", only a private letter and vanished listing. Insulting me personally and privately isn't the same as doing so in a public forum.

I'm certainly not defending eBay here, only pointing out that they've made pretty sure they can do this if they feel like it, and have the billion-dollar-company legal team to back it up.

@dnasilver wrote:
If you are 100% sure they are not counterfeit, then I would contact eBay.

I intended to do so (since yes, I am 100% sure they're not counterfeit), but it was interesting to me that the form letter didn't say "If you believe this to be in error...", it simply stated "Your listing is for counterfeit goods and has been removed." They didn't even imply there was any recourse.

dnasilver · ‎08-31-2022

It does not matter what terms and conditions are. If they violate laws of the Country they operate in then they are moot. If you can prove to eBay they were wrong, what does it hurt? As long as you are professional and have actual proof, how can eBay claim counterfeit? Sounds more like discrimination or backing specific sellers (picking winners) who claimed your item as fake. eBay does not want to be known as a questionable operation. Not good for a publicly traded company. In most cases eBay is right (probably 99.8%) and many complain about how they cheat or steal or hide listings, all false accusations made by people who never admit they made a mistake or do not understand something. We would not relist the item but if we had proof item was real we certainly would let them know. The few issues we have had eBay was fair and just and willing to change their mind.

craftsncurios · ‎08-31-2022

Thats apple and microshaft for you - i ran into this years ago when i resold a microsoft bundle I had bought and owned but microshaft had ebay keep removing the auction as they dont like competition even from a second hand market, and well, ebay of course just rides right along with it.

I just stopped buying anything from either company as much as I can and moved onto other things - you will keep hearing this repeated over and over, but ebay doesnt care and they use/abuse their sellers all the time - your a cash cow to them that they dont need to feed, so expect to be treated poorly and you wont be surprised .

rfmtm · ‎08-31-2022

Do not relist until the matter is resolved.

If a VeRO take down you can fight it, as you have a legal right to resell an authentic legally obtained item as long as you don't otherwise infringe on the owner's rights. However, if this wasn't a VeRO complaint, but an ebay take down, you have a problem.

Ebay appears to be doing more and more of this sort of thing against sellers of various products without giving them any recourse whatsoever to appeal it. The best you could do is have your attorney send a letter to ebay's legal department, but hardly worth it for a single item.

Obviously ebay is trying to protect against counterfeits, but at times seems to not be applying the take downs fairly to all sellers. I suspect if this practice continues to escalate, some public advocate or news group is going to call them out on it.

joseh1445 · ‎08-31-2022

Don't relist. Sell them in another platform. That your item is legit, it doesn't matter. Its not worth getting your account suspended. Good luck on your selling journey.

luckythewinner · ‎08-31-2022

I'm also curious if anyone has experience with the "Do not relist this item" warning; I could of course take new photos

eBay did not say "take new pictures".

eBay said "Do not relist this item".

Why in the world would you risk your ability to sell on eBay over a single item?

ms.rodriguez* · ‎08-31-2022

Trust me, you will be suspended if you relist them. I know. If you are sure that they are not counterfeit, then sell those on Facebook or Craigslist. You can't sell everything here.

rugerskick · ‎08-31-2022

This is correct.

People here think ebay's terms and conditions can violate the laws of the country they are in. Simply because they state them in terms and conditions.

Their terms and conditions systematically enable and facilitate buyer fraud occurring at sellers' expenses. This may be in their terms and conditions, but it might not be legal to always blindly side with the buyer at the sellers' financial detriment, especially when they ignore evidence and/or admit the buyer is abusing the ebay system for fraud. Just because ebay has a MBG policy.

That MBG policy if it violates the law, is not legal. More and more evidence is coming to light it could very well not do well surviving a legal challenge on behalf of ripped off sellers that were enabled by ebays policy.

doc-holmes · ‎08-31-2022

I'm pretty sure ebay can refuse to allow a listing, or allow someone to sell on the platform at all, as long as they're not discriminating based on very specific criteria.

luckythewinner · ‎08-31-2022

@rugerskick wrote:
This may be in their terms and conditions, but it might not be legal to always blindly side with the buyer at the sellers' financial detriment

eBay was taken to court in 2012 for it's "buyer is always right" policy and the case was dismissed. (Campbell vs. eBay).