Trying not to get scammed

[ovlm4341]

I'm a first time seller selling an expensive item. I'm trying to devise a bulletproof way to not get scammed, even if it costs quite a bit extra. My current plan is to ship the item through the USPS with Insured Restricted Delivery (+ signature confirmation?, not sure if restricted delivery includes signature confirmation) and thoroughly document the packaging process, mainly by recording the entire thing. Even if that isn't enough to win under ebay's dispute policy, I do think it's enough to win either an arbitration or a mail fraud case.  I want to make sure I'm understanding everything correctly; would this provide me with complete protection? 

[luckythewinner]

I'm a first time seller selling an expensive item.

IMHO that is a recipe for disaster. 

I'm trying to devise a bulletproof way to not get scammed

There is no bulletproof way to avoid fraud. It is ALWAYS apossibility. 

thoroughly document the packaging process, mainly by recording the entire thing

eBay will not look at your videos, becaus they know videos can be faked.  

Even if that isn't enough to win under ebay's dispute policy, I do think it's enough to win either an arbitration 

How are you proposing to get your buyer into arbitration? 

or a mail fraud case. 

If you believe you will be able convince the federal authorities to bring a mail fraud case against your buyer, you are bound to be disappointed.

[supercharger-parts]

I can't speak to arbitration or mail fraud, but nothing can completely protect you within eBay policies.

If I were to purchase your expensive item and when it arrived I filed a case with eBay that the item was not as described, you would get a notification to provide me with a return shipping label.  If you did not provide me with a shipping label to return it, I would get a full refund and you get nothing mailed back. 

If you did provide me with a shipping label, I can send you an empty box and you are out of luck, but I get a full refund because the tracking shows as delivered.  No video, no photos, no statements from the post office on the weight of the package (even if you could get one) will help you.  The only thing that would help you is if I admitted to it as far as eBay policies go.  A buyer is not required to respond or send photos.

So, know that as a new seller, you are taking a large risk of fraud by selling something so expensive and you could be a target for this kind of fraud.  Some buyers might ask for your contact info to text you and if you gave your email address to them you might get a very official looking eBay email saying the item was paid for (unless it shows paid on eBay, it's not).  You might get a buyer that wants you to also send some gift cards for them.........also a fraudulent practice.

Never sell anything on eBay that you cannot afford to lose. 

[nguye159055]

I'm looking for what will happen next.

[whattheactualfox]

@ovlm4341 The first rule of a business is you must be willing to take risks and losses. This means if you want to make x amount of dollars, you must be willing to loose x amount of dollars. There's no official way to make a bulletproof idea.

If you are shipping a high priced item I would get insurance for the value of the item sold (In the event it gets damaged during transit or the buyer says it's damaged.) I would also get tracking and delivery conformation (If a buyer opens a Item Not Received aka INR case you will have proof the item was delivered to the residence, and the signature is more proof.) Even if you record videos, everyone knows that could be digitally altered and are not considered valid evidence according to ebay. 

Now the worst that can happen is that you get an INAD (Item Not As Described) case opened against you. And those always have ebay in favor with the buyer 99 percent of the time. Once in a blue moon, ebay will be in favor of the seller in certain cases. And even if you won any cases opened against you, the buyer can chargeback PayPal, their CC, and bank. And with the CC and Bank, they are usually in favor of the buyer (They are in favor of their customers and keeping them.)

Also with your seller rating and age, you are susceptible to scammers.  If you are really worried about this item, I would not sell it on ebay and do it locally.

[ovlm4341]

Sorry I should've clarified 

There are two (three?) courses of action should I get scammed and ebay initially sides with the buyer

The first is taking ebay to small claims or arbitration. The agreement to arbitrate states that for claims under a certain amount ($2000?) ebay will cover arbitration fees. 

The other option is to go after the buyer, ideally both through criminal (mail fraud) and civil (breach of contract, tort, etc) means. I don't intend on getting them into arbitration.  

I am in agreement that the mail fraud case is a long shot, but it's also a good deterrent. The odds that it works are slim, but I don't think too many people would be willing to risk it. 

While videos can be faked surely having a video is better than not having one, right? Another thought I had would be to subpoena the post office security camera footage (should this escalate to a court case)

[dbfolks166mt]

     The only way to be 100% sure of not getting scammed on eBay is to not list an item. Remember the first rule as a seller is to not list anything you cannot afford to loose or take a loss on. You have two strikes against you the first being you are a new seller and the second being you are listing a "expensive item" both of which make you a prime target for scammers. 

     While restricted delivery adds a bit of protection for both you and the buyer it does little to protect against INAD cases and bogus rock returns regardless of how well you image and document the shipping process. If you are going to use restricted delivery make sure you include that information in your posting as it may discourage some scammers but it also lets the legitimate buyer know what to expect. Not sure what you are shipping but insure the item to its full value. By the time you factor in the fees and the cost of shipping and insurance you may find there are far better ways to sell your item than using eBay. 

[ovlm4341]

To everyone recommending selling off eBay: trust me, I would prefer that as well.  Selling this item over eBay will net me less profit while exposing me to greater risk, but unfortunately I don't have a choice in the matter. 

[bbravo65]

"...Another thought I had would be to subpoena the post office security camera footage..."

...so you plan to bring your item to post office to do wrapping and then shipping from there without using eBay shipping label...???

...don't you know most USPS facility security records are erased by Postal Inspectors every 2 weeks unless that facility had something in significant matters...???

[ovlm4341]

..so you plan to bring your item to post office to do wrapping and then shipping from there without using eBay shipping label...???

...don't you know most USPS facility security records are erased by Postal Inspectors every 2 weeks unless that facility had something in significant matters...???

Yes, I was under the impression that the ebay shipping label is printed then taped to a package. Given this I don't see why I can't print the label at home, go to the post office, package the item and attach the label, then ship from there. I may be misunderstanding something. 

Regarding USPS erasing security cam footage - I didn't know that, thank you for letting me know. I'll have to see if/how I can plan around that.

[katzrul15]

OP - unless you are going to hand deliver the item, unfortunately, you have risk associated with your transaction.

You can mitigate the risks by limiting to who/where you will sell the item (no PO Boxes, no International, etc).  You can whittle down you buyer requirements, slightly, but not much.

You can ship the item via Fedex with Adult Signature confirmation.  You can even make it be the "person" and only the person you are shipping to.  However, once Fedex is gone, all they will do is verify that Suzie Sunshine signed for the parcel and the parcel was indeed intact and that you insured it for "X" dollars and that they really have no idea if they delivered what you claimed you did or not.

If you came to my PO and wanted to stand somewhere in the PO and assemble your parcel for shipping, there would be limited space to do that and doubtful that would "well document" what you are shipping.  As soon as you started holding it up and trying to find the lobby camera, you can bet at our PO you would be have peeps attention.  lol

I really wish there was a "bullet proof" scenario.  You can unfortunately do everything "right" and your Buyer can be dishonest.  Once you list it, you have no way to know if gertie grandma is going to buy it or frank the fraudster.  

Good luck.  As a Seller, I always thought that since I sold stuff no one really scammed over that all the stuff I read on here was just that - someone else's worries.  I was wrong.  Fraud happens in every category on this site.  As I am typing this, some nut is ordering their happy meal on here and as soon as they get it and eat the fries will be emailing their Seller that no fries came with their happy meal and what do you intend to do about it?

Good luck.  Hope all your ideas work and your selling experience is one that does not require assistance with a scammer.  (meant sincerely).  

[wesk_36]

If you have a good buyer, you will never hear from them after the purchase.

Restricted delivery does not include Signature Confirmation, you must combine them.

This does not protect you from an item not-as-described or damaged case nor from a return of something completely different.

Ebay's money back guarantee will protect the buyer but not you and in such cases you would be required to refund the buyer in whole including return shipping, or refuse a return and the buyer may be allowed to keep the card and a refund.

It wouldn't protect you from a credit-card charge-back or false claims of the buyer receiving a book.

Your options for responding to a return request

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/handle-return-request-seller?id=4115&mkev...

"You can only offer a partial refund once, and the buyer can choose to accept or reject your offer."

Restricted Delivery +Signature Confirmation could help later but you would have to prove mail fraud or any other fraud and that is difficult to prove as you are the only one who knows the truth, and it would come at a great price; countless hours and perhaps thousands of dollars in legal fees and travel and expenses.

Your word against the buyer. Pictures are worthless to ebay and law enforcement and the courts. They would prove nothing.

The last half of your listing description paragraph is unenforceable.

"I want to make sure I'm understanding everything correctly; would this provide me with complete protection? "

NO.

good luck

[coolections]

It sounds like you are dreaming OP. Maybe have someone wake you up ? With all the worries you have about selling here it would be best to just skip Ebay at this time. Nothing you said will work and you cannot do anything to ebay as the day you signed up you agreed to that. 

[m60driver]

Your a new seller so you can just kiss that graphics card good bye or just flush it down the toilet.  Are you sure you can't sell it locally for less money but at least have the cash in hand?  So as far as understanding everything correctly, sorry, but you are clueless as nothing you intend to do will protect you when selling on Ebay.  I find it downright laughable.

[bbravo65]

...this is about shipping through security levels from USPS...

* Signature Confirmation is not significant any much more since this China virus...varies Post Office Management allow mail carriers to sign and left package at door if the residents are well-known by their mailman...

* Express Mail can either request for signature of waived of signature...many times clerks "conveniently" forgot to ask the senders and of course the signature box was uncheck...USPS only cares if that piece of mail was delivered in time manners due to the high value of shipping charge, they don't want to lose their revenues if the sender later found out that Express Mail was...1 minute behind delivery schedule..remember 1 minute...the sender can bring the receipt and tracking information back to post office and get a full refund...

* USPS has another restricted delivery as Signature of Adult From 21 Years Old or Above...but this one scenario is as much the same as Signature Confirmation above...

* Registered Mail (haven't seen anyone in this forum mentioned about this yet)...Registered Mail is very restricted when delivery...carriers can not sign on behalf of the resident unless there is a signed-authorization letter from that resident with valid ID's copy...and if the registered item couldn't be delivered at the end of day, it has to be handled to the supervisor in-charge and locked it up in security vault by the lead-clerk...

* Certified Mail is mostly for letters or large envelope in first-class rates...it will be subsequent if Priority was used...

* Return Receipt...this little Green note request receiver's signature upon delivery and it will be sent back to sender to verify that the letter, flat, or package was properly delivered...well, this note can be put in the same "pool" with Signature Confirmation...

* everyone knew well about Insured Mail...no needs to explain...(I assumed...)

...so, depends on how much a sender is willing to spend for a high security levels, mail can be well-secured delivery...but it still can't be verified if the receiver is a scammer...