eBay

bmp_auto_salvage · ‎12-12-2018

Hello Everyone,

It saddens me to do this but as of yesterday I've made up my mind to no longer choose to sell on eBay full time. I have been doing so since I was 18 (almost 30 now) and it went from something which I truly loved to do and was excited about to completely dreading. I started with a small 5x5 storage unit where I would store my parts to a 1300 SQ FT warehouse with thousands of dollars in heavy duty shelving, a forklift, office, lift and more. My reason for leaving all this hard work behind stems from the lack of respect and protection in which they give us (the sellers) as well as the most greed filled, disgusting, policy yet, the additional 4% hit on final value fees for "high returns". I average about $15,000 in sales a month and between my "anchor" store and final value fees I believe eBay is paid quite well. Now, for reasons out of your control if a buyer opens a return and claims the item as "defective" even when it may not be we take that hit. I sell auto parts and it is a tough gig, buyers usually do not have a full understanding as to what it is they are buying or simply have a remorse return for a misdiagnosed part and unfortunately we take the hit. Just yesterday I sold an air bag (non deployed of course) and the buyer stated it "does not work" now, nothing short of the buyer installing the bag into the vehicle and driving it straight into a wall would this return make any sense. Very upset about this, I called eBay and explained the situation to a staff member, he completely agreed with me however stated that I "cannot have this defect removed" which then causes my return rate to go "up". I am sorry but a 3% return rate in no way shape or form should be considered "high" nor should a 3.50% be "very high" and subject me to an additional 4% final value fee. This whole comparing you to your "peers" is absolute garbage and just an excuse for them to pocket an extra $600 from me a month (on average ). I am disgusted with this and no longer going to invest my time into a company which treats its sellers so poorly. I have since switched all my items from same day handling to one day handling and have begun my new path into the real estate market. After completion of my course I already have a company ready to take me in (its always good to know people). From then on my handling time will be switched to 3 or 4 business days and as I build a new career for myself I will put eBay on the back burner and slowly transistion out of this market until a good chunk of my higher ticket items are sold here and then sell off the rest of my warehouse and supplies such as the racks, fork lifts, etc, in due time. It is something that truly pains me but I cannot take this blatant disrespect and abuse from eBay and the scammer buyers alike. I have put forth neraly 12 years of my life selling on here but I just cannot take it anymore. My stress levels are through the roof, everytime I get a return I get this pain in my gut and I have more grey hairs than a 30 year old should. At the end of the day I'm truly looking forward to this new route I am taking and one thing I'd like for eBay to remember is that they did this to themselves and I am sure more, now than ever sellers like myself are leaving this platform and either seeking new platforms or taking new career paths as well due to eBays greed and blatant disrespect to its foundation which helped make it what it is, the sellers.

goodluckselling · ‎12-12-2018

All I did was point out what eBay defines a peer as, and also pointed out the areas you want to be part of the formula and wondered why you would think those areas have anything to do with an SNAD and or return against your ratings?

Because you have more transactions makes sense you will hit the minimum number easier than a lower transaction seller but they will also fall of the back end quicker as well, so as you make changes to limit these events your number gain in standings.

It does not seem to matter how much you sell for this rating. It is about other sellers with like items at similiar prices and policies, which are comparable in a refined group to see how each rates against each other. It is completely probable that different products would have different sets of peers for that product.

I am not sure where this whole thing about calling you a liar is coming from?

Good Luck Selling!

zamo-zuan · ‎12-12-2018

Since evidence seems to be necessary as well:

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Archive-Selling/EBay-statistics-inaccurate-search-broken-impressions-i...

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Archive-Selling/EBay-statistics-inaccurate-search-broken-impressions-i...

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Archive-Selling/EBay-statistics-inaccurate-search-broken-impressions-i...

Notice that the question originally asked by the person who called the mod to the post, was never actually answered?

Notice they stated they were looking at all the information we reported, and through our logs, and not one thing was mentioned to be false?

Notice confirmation from the response that we were "being looked at properly at this point" - confirming that we WERE being treated unfairly?

But still no response to the request for confirmation? Just vague mention about seller metrics that can contribute to visibility? Even though I shared our metrics in screenshots, and our metrics had no issue?

For the record, AFTER this occasion, I was able to confirm that as long as the Sellers Health Report's statistic issues persisted, we had our drop. As soon as the Sellers Health Report had the statistics displaying correctly, our impressions went to normal.

Also, for the record, incase anyone is believing that the "risk factor" thing was the reason for our drop - impression statistics did not update at the time, but our drop ALREADY STOPPED by the date the supposed "risks" on our account happened. You can confirm this in my later posts. This shows the claims by the supervisor were false - if the "risk" claims had any value to it, our drop would have been AFTER those events occured. Yet at that time, our impressions went UP and not down.

The issues with visibility are real. EBay does not even deny it. I regularly show evidence, the train of thought, and reasoning behind everything I say. EBay does not deny it.

gramophone-georg · ‎12-12-2018

@goodluckselling wrote:
All I did was point out what eBay defines a peer as, and also pointed out the areas you want to be part of the formula and wondered why you would think those areas have anything to do with an SNAD and or return against your ratings?

Because you have more transactions makes sense you will hit the minimum number easier than a lower transaction seller but they will also fall of the back end quicker as well, so as you make changes to limit these events your number gain in standings.

It does not seem to matter how much you sell for this rating. It is about other sellers with like items at similiar prices and policies, which are comparable in a refined group to see how each rates against each other. It is completely probable that different products would have different sets of peers for that product.

I am not sure where this whole thing about calling you a liar is coming from?

Good Luck Selling!

It really doesn't matter what the raison du jour or the "metric" is... when you need to start backing into a profit by cutting payroll and creating backdoor revenue sources you got serious probs... and eBay has done both recently.

Chaos is NOT an "industry standard".

zamo-zuan · ‎12-12-2018

@goodluckselling wrote:

I am not sure where this whole thing about calling you a liar is coming from?

Good Luck Selling!

If you call people conspiracy theorists, and push even further to say no "factual findings" were shared.... what else would you call it?

Especially after you and I having discussions such as this in the past & seeing "factual findings" I presented in many topics.

Isn't every seller here invested in to eBay? Shouldn't the findings that led to these "theories" be taken seriously?

Then why dismiss things when there has been factual evidence shared in past topics?

zamo-zuan · ‎12-12-2018

@goodluckselling wrote:

I am not sure where this whole thing about calling you a liar is coming from?

Good Luck Selling!

Shouldn't the factual findings that led to these "theories" be taken seriously?

Shouldnt the evidence that eBay is staying silent on the matter, despite looking in to it, be worrying?

Shouldn't the evidence that CSR's who look in to this, suddenly stop responding and disappear, be worrying?

Shouldn't it be worrying that they won't even give a straight answer to the questions presented in the topic I shared?

By making sure eBay's problems are recognized and addressed - Isn't what I'm trying to do in every sellers best interest?

Then how come there's so much opposition and claims that there's "no evidence" from regular forum users who have personally seen evidence?

How come actions that are in every sellers best interest, are not appreciated or supported in the sellers forum?

gracieallen01 · ‎12-12-2018

@goodluckselling wrote:
It does not seem to matter. I have shown two different articles from third party companies who are not writing for or against eBay in the article but they do reveal some facts complete with links to the info they are sharing and yet the same doubters here seem to try to discredit the info because it does not make sense to them, so it must not be true.

Just once I would like to see some of these conspiracy theories to show even one factual finding.

Good Luck Selling!

I'm not speaking of some 3rd party writing an article stating their opinion of and/or about ebay.

I am speaking of the boasts, comments, suggestions, etc., by ebay, that the things they do are actually helping or improving or protecting, etc., the sellers and community, and actually providing the data to PROVE those claims AND having responsible, independent and unbiased confirmation, by a legitimate organization/corporation/individual/etc., of the claim(s) being true and accurate.

Sorry, didn't realize I had to spell it out.

Not saying 'NO' doesn't mean 'YES'.

The foolishness of one's actions or words is determined by the number of witnesses.

Perhaps if Brains were described as an APP, many people would use them more often.

Respect, like money, is only of 'worth' when it is earned - with all due respect, it can not be ordained, legislated or coerced. Anonymous

ifyouloveit · ‎12-12-2018

^^^^^^^^
THIS!!

In sales, I find most buyers who wants 'something' they shouldn't have lie to get their way. Big lie, little fib, full on deception. It has always been this way and will always be so.

Rarely do you come across a buyer online who openly admits they just don't like it, bought it on impulse and didn't have the money, spouse told them to send it back, bought to rent for a night, or was impaired on a Saturday night and bought something while under the influence of whatever.

My experience has been when it is the buyers responsibility, they find a way to turn it around and have it not be their fault. Many human beings try to be made even 'better' than they were before, just watch any court TV show. That 'something for nothing' or 'free' or 'get myself a little extra' mentality applies to a very large amount of online buyers.

So, they pick a reason OTHER then the real reason to get their money back. Such as:

Item not as described.
Item damaged.
Item missing part.
Wrong item.
Used, not new.
Not authentic or genuine.
Color not right.
Size not right.
Packing peanuts the wrong color.
The air tasted purple after they opened the package.
(joking, sort of)

Rarely does the human pick, "It's my fault" when it is 100% their fault. It just isn't how people behave online and in real life.

They prefer to not take the blame so they chose one of the various screw over the seller choices eBay so happily and handily puts right in their little faces with a big button.

eBay is VERY, VERY, VERY savvy and knows most people will blame anyone or anything other than themselves to get their way, so.......

Seller strike goes to AWESOME, HONEST, ABOVE BOARD, GREAT SERVICE seller, again.

Buyer walks away clean, and quite often better than they were before with possibly the product, refund, and a clean record.

Anyone who does not believe this is just another way to skim money out of a seller's pocket is not in the same World I am living in.

It is also part of what I believe is a very calculated extinction of a mass of smaller sellers on eBay's part as they continue to implement changes that hack at the sellers profit margin. They don't need or want many of us on their site anymore, they want big box sellers and big China sellers. How many here are one of those types of sellers?

Those humans who chose not to see the writing on the wall will always be around to say it isn't happening. I believe that falls under one of my categories above: Unable to admit they are wrong. I know people who would literally rather die than admit to anything if it puts them in what they consider to be an unfavorable light. I have a relative like that, never, ever says she is sorry or wrong, will go to extremes to deny anything.

The human ego is a fragile, bizarre and incredibly impossible thing to deal with sometimes.

I feel truly sad for all the sellers watching their stores, hopes, dreams and income go down the toilet here. I feel sad for all of you, I feel sad for me, I feel sad for the next set of sellers who wonder what on Earth is going on.

For if you call eBay, they say everything is fine, fine, fine!

For eBay, sure, for me and sellers like me, it sure as heck isn't fine. And this is a posting ID for all those who like to rummage through other people's stores to find FAULTS. Go for it, I could care even less than I do now 🙂

18704d · ‎12-12-2018

"And this isn't a posting ID for all those who like to rummage through other people's stores to find FAULTS. Go for it..."

I believe you meant "isn't" because you have listings showing.

And fwiw,

Many of us, myself included, have reviewed poster's listings

and actually purchased from them because we liked what they offered

and probably wouldn't have bumped into them with the search engine.

Lynn

Lynn

You love me for everything you hate me for

.

goodluckselling · ‎12-12-2018

I do not have to read your links. The bottom line is the attributes used in the service metric is a fair way to rate a refined set of sellers for a refined set of atrributes. Your idea of sales tiered peer groups would have no effect on whether a buyer opens a SNAD and or return request?

It plays no part in any anything related to this. I really do not understand how someone with you grasp in online sales could think otherwise?

Service metric has nothing to do with volume of sales transactions or accumulative values. You have said you would be fine if the attributes represented a fair comparison but you also are saying you wanted tiered sales to have a value in the formula? Exactly how is this a fair comparison? I have asked you this a few times without you answering this. You sound like you feel you deserve some kind of exception to the rule?

Good Luck Selling!

zamo-zuan · ‎12-13-2018

@goodluckselling wrote:
I do not have to read your links. The bottom line is the attributes used in the service metric is a fair way to rate a refined set of sellers for a refined set of atrributes. Your idea of sales tiered peer groups would have no effect on whether a buyer opens a SNAD and or return request?

It plays no part in any anything related to this. I really do not understand how someone with you grasp in online sales could think otherwise?

Service metric has nothing to do with volume of sales transactions or accumulative values. You have said you would be fine if the attributes represented a fair comparison but you also are saying you wanted tiered sales to have a value in the formula? Exactly how is this a fair comparison? I have asked you this a few times without you answering this. You sound like you feel you deserve some kind of exception to the rule?

Good Luck Selling!

It SHOULD have something to do with the volume of transactions. Because as mentioned, without doing so, they are now comparing sellers with a lower sales bulk, to sellers with 100+ sales a day. That is NOT a peer, and NOT a fair comparison.

We work with many sellers in the Motors industry. All of the sellers with a very large bulk are "High" or "Highest" on the sellers metrics.

Network with some others, and you will quickly see that the higher bulk a seller gets, the higher their rates are.

According to eBay, supposedly only the "highest 10%" are given the penalty. This means only 1/10 sellers should be that high.

I've not met a SINGLE seller of any substantial bulk in Motors that is not "High" or worse.

You are stating the problem - it doesn't have anything to do with bulk. That IS the problem and IS why it's not fair.

You didn't comment on what I mentioned about having software to verify our items are correct, yet we STILL are in high, how on earth is a metric that puts someone with a double visual verification system in the "high" category a "fair" metric?

Nor is it fair that other sellers in our category are being compared to us, because we HAVE this software, if they don't, they are at risk for additional penalties, simply becuase they don't have the software. Is that "fair"?

Ask anyone who sells well in the Motors category if you don't believe me , or the OP.

ersatz_sobriquet · ‎12-13-2018

Keep doing what you know. If you decide to leave ebay, ok, but do not stop doing what you know so very well, just do it elsewhere. I sold real estate for years and I can tell you that it is no picnic. You have to find your own leads. Unless you know A LOT OF PEOPLE who are thinking about selling their house, plan on not making any money for six months or longer. Getting in the door at a real estate broker's is a piece of cake. Making a living at it is not, about 90% fail, give up, or make a part-time living at it that is akin to lower than minimum wage hourly.

That said, you know something very well--auto parts. If you are leaving ebay start learning the same marketing skills you would use in real estate to use locally to sell your auto parts and your own website. Continue to sell here lightweight and smaller parts, things that will not cost you nearly as much in returns as heavy cast parts and bulky items or very intricate items that the end user needs an education on.

goodluckselling · ‎12-13-2018

Bulk sellers vs lower transaction sellers have nothing to do with whether a buyer opens a SNAD and or a return request.
Buyers do not take actions because they think you are a bulk seller or not.
Service Metric ratings are based on opened requests for SNAD and returns

I think the point you are trying to make is because you are a bulk seller you will have more of these requests opened?

That is more than likely true but the point I am making is just because you are a bulk seller does not mean buyers are opening these request just because you are a bulk seller. Buyers are opening the requests because of some kind of issue with the orders regardless if they just misunderstood or it was an issue with the item.

The reasons do not matter. The rating is the same for all your peers as defined by eBay which has already been provided.

For bulk sellers the opportunities for more requests being open is logical and eBay also lets your requests fall off after 3 months where lower transaction sellers keep there request totals for `12 months.

The service metric ratings are given to us sellers to help us see how we are doing against others, and this is info we can use to improve our performances.

Insights into why your buyers are making these requests
Tips to help reduce rates of these requests

Good Luck Selling!

zamo-zuan · ‎12-13-2018

@goodluckselling wrote:
Bulk sellers vs lower transaction sellers have nothing to do with whether a buyer opens a SNAD and or a return request.
Buyers do not take actions because they think you are a bulk seller or not.
Service Metric ratings are based on opened requests for SNAD and returns
I think the point you are trying to make is because you are a bulk seller you will have more of these requests opened?

That is more than likely true but the point I am making is just because you are a bulk seller does not mean buyers are opening these request just because you are a bulk seller. Buyers are opening the requests because of some kind of issue with the orders regardless if they just misunderstood or it was an issue with the item.

The reasons do not matter. The rating is the same for all your peers as defined by eBay which has already been provided.

For bulk sellers the opportunities for more requests being open is logical and eBay also lets your requests fall off after 3 months where lower transaction sellers keep there request totals for `12 months.

The service metric ratings are given to us sellers to help us see how we are doing against others, and this is info we can use to improve our performances.
Insights into why your buyers are making these requests
Tips to help reduce rates of these requests
Good Luck Selling!

How could you possibly reduce rates of these requests beyond making sure the right item is in the box, EVERY time? We developed our software with this in mind. We ARE doing so, and we have the records in our database to prove it.

Yet we are still high? Again, you are not commenting on this. How could anyone possibly say this is "fair"? For us, it's not an issue, because we don't have a penalty. But I can say with 100% certainty, if WE are high with the software we have, then this system is not fair for other sellers in our category, period.

The problem here is it's supposed to be a "peer", meaning a "comparable" seller. If bulk is not in the equation at all, you are not "comparable".

This is beyond the fact that, as mentioned, the Motors categories are COMBINED and inaccurate as well.

Besides, how is this a comparison of "how we are doing compared to other sellers"... when we have CERTAINTY the right item was sent, yet we are still told we're "high"? If 99.9% of our orders are correct due to our verification systems, who in the world is NOT high???

The flaw in the logic is the statistics are based upon CLAIMS, not upon actual performance. More bulk = more claims.

Furthermore, the fact that anyone with high bulk is put in to "High", means you are being compared to newer sellers with less bulk, who more easily hit high metrics.

You mentioned "Tips to reduce these rates". How about giving me a SINGLE suggestion that we could do to reduce our rates, that we don't already have covered? Yet we're still high....? How does that make sense? How is that "fair"?

Would you go as far as to say that a new seller on eBay could fairly be compared to us? With our bulk of sales, in addition to software that goes beyond what is available to them? In what was is that "fair" for either of us?

goodluckselling · ‎12-13-2018

@zamo-zuan wrote:

How could you possibly reduce rates of these requests beyond making sure the right item is in the box, EVERY time? We developed our software with this in mind. We ARE doing so, and we have the records in our database to prove it.

Yet we are still high? Again, you are not commenting on this. How could anyone possibly say this is "fair"? For us, it's not an issue, because we don't have a penalty. But I can say with 100% certainty, if WE are high with the software we have, then this system is not fair for other sellers in our category, period.

The problem here is it's supposed to be a "peer", meaning a "comparable" seller. If bulk is not in the equation at all, you are not "comparable".

I am not debating you specifically with my argument. I understand you have lots of things in place to reduce issues. I do not have any history of software like you are speaking about, so I can not comment about your operation.

I understand you feel that bulk sellers should only be peers with bulk sellers, and I disagree.

The tips you asked about should be available to you from eBay in your service metrics. They are the one's saying you will have tips and suggestions to follow.

For you specifically because of the fact you have your items produced for you to the manufacture specs and perhaps above the manufacture grade.

It would actually be very hard for a small seller to compete with you in price for a long time. Which suggests to me that a small seller might get into your peer group for a while but would fall out of your peer group as there prices and policies change and or your prices and policies change.

Good Luck Selling!

zamo-zuan · ‎12-13-2018

@goodluckselling wrote:
@zamo-zuan wrote:

How could you possibly reduce rates of these requests beyond making sure the right item is in the box, EVERY time? We developed our software with this in mind. We ARE doing so, and we have the records in our database to prove it.

Yet we are still high? Again, you are not commenting on this. How could anyone possibly say this is "fair"? For us, it's not an issue, because we don't have a penalty. But I can say with 100% certainty, if WE are high with the software we have, then this system is not fair for other sellers in our category, period.

The problem here is it's supposed to be a "peer", meaning a "comparable" seller. If bulk is not in the equation at all, you are not "comparable".

I am not debating you specifically with my argument. I understand you have lots of things in place to reduce issues. I do not have any history of software like you are speaking about, so I can not comment about your operation.

I understand you feel that bulk sellers should only be peers with bulk sellers, and I disagree.

The tips you asked about should be available to you from eBay in your service metrics. They are the one's saying you will have tips and suggestions to follow.

For you specifically because of the fact you have your items produced for you to the manufacture specs and perhaps above the manufacture grade.

It would actually be very hard for a small seller to compete with you in price for a long time. Which suggests to me that a small seller might get into your peer group for a while but would fall out of your peer group as there prices and policies change and or your prices and policies change.

Good Luck Selling!

Well I've provided enough information to show there's a problem - software that verifies is beyond what most eBay sellers have. If the metric were an actual comparison of "how we were doing", we would have sellers beat who didn't have comparable software.

This is NOT the case. This is indisputable evidence that the metrics are NOT achieving their intended purpose!!

You are missing the point. There's NOTHING we can do to further reduce our metrics. Because our listings are correct, and the correct item IS being sent.

If this was a strict measure of performance, we would be very solid in metrics. But this isn't a measure of performance, it's a measure of CLAIMS.

A simple fix would be to allow sellers to appeal false claims. That would fix the system entirely, would it not?

You say you don't agree with "peers" being similar bulk, but that would be another solution to this problem as well! Compare us with all the other sellers who have >100k/month in sales. Then you will suddenly see the difference our software provides, because I can guarantee we will outperform sellers who have a similar bulk to us.

You mentioned prices - that is a BIG PART of the reason why I say it should be sellers of a similar bulk! If you are able to clear 100k/month in your category, you MUST have competitive prices. Choosing a similar bulk would be MORE accurate than the current system!

I understand you can have your own opinion & argue about what variables are used in the calculation.

One thing that is not disputable, is that the current system is NOT fair, and is NOT working for it's intended purpose. If it were actually measuring performance, they would have a way to appeal, and having 100% certainty that the right item was sent would make a measurable difference.

Right now, it's simply a measurement of false claims. Nothing more. That will not be resolved until either you are able to appeal the claims, OR they start measuring comparable bulk (which would filter out enough stores that the percentages actually mattered and you WERE being compared to similar sellers).