Taxed Twice M2M Thread

[mr_lincoln]

I saw this post on the M2M board ...

I agree 110% that "used" items, collectibles, antiques, etc ... meaning any thing that isn't "current and new" should NOT be subject to sales tax.  The sales tax was paid at the original point of purchase (except in Delaware) so the state got their cut then ... charging tax again on these items is at a minimum Double Taxation ... time to throw something other then Tea into the Boston Harbor ... can I get an "Amen?"

[nc-daydreamer]

Where I lived, yes, the police came by checking to be sure these permits were posted when they happened by and see one in progress. And they would write out a summons for it if not - so you had to go to court and pay fines. It's all about the money.  I think all sales tax is wrong, buying or selling - but without it, the state income may be worse than mine.  I also think that politicians who cared would offer to to take a paycut... Oh well... Some stars, athletes etc get paid too much too...  IMO

[pburn]

So, you made me look up the law in my state! LOL! Here's how it reads. Ready? It's pretty boring, but, come to find out, individuals are actually limited to ONE, three-day garage sale a year:

022.01 Occasional sales are exempt from sales tax. Occasional sale means a sale, but not a lease or rental, of property in a transaction described in Reg-1-022.02 through Reg-1-022.09.
. . .

022.08 Occasional sale includes a sale of household goods and personal effects by an individual when the property was originally acquired and used for personal use. These sales must occur at an individual's residence, and may include the property of more than one person, or be carried out by an individual on an online auction site.

022.08A These sales may not be held on more than three days during a calendar year at any residence or on an online auction site.

022.08B These sales may not include property which is similar to property that is sold by the individual or any member of his or her household in a trade or business.

022.08C Household goods and personal effects do not include motor vehicles, motorboats, or aircraft [which are subject to sales tax in any event].

Now, as far as how they monitor how many garage sales an individual has, I suppose it's the same as so many other things: someone is always willing to tell on them! I really don't know the answer to that, but that's my guess. I'm really unaware how they police the garage-sale market.

In regard to how much state sales tax to charge, I'm not sure I understand the question. The person holding the garage sale (if they have more than one a year) has to file for a permit to collect sales tax. The seller charges every buyer the sales tax rate. At the end of the garage sale (or quarterly or whatever), the seller makes the appropriate payment to the State Department of Revenue.

[Anonymous]

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@7606dennis wrote:

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You realize that a permit or license fee is, in essence, a form of taxation.

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Amen!!!

[luckythewinner]

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

Semantics ... the Superman Socks that sold at Ben Franklin's when they were new in 1979 were taxed then and if resold today on eBay would be taxed again ... I think you and some others know what I am talking about ... the item is taxed twice in this example and I don't agree with it ...

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What you are calling "semantics" is an explanation of the fundamental concept behind a sales tax.

If there are 100 transactions involving the same item, each of those 100 transactions is taxed 1 time. 

The fact that you don't agree that there is a distinction between an object and an activity does not alter the law. 

[Anonymous]

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@luckythewinner wrote:

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

Semantics ... the Superman Socks that sold at Ben Franklin's when they were new in 1979 were taxed then and if resold today on eBay would be taxed again ... I think you and some others know what I am talking about ... the item is taxed twice in this example and I don't agree with it ...

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What you are calling "semantics" is an explanation of the fundamental concept behind a sales tax.

If there are 100 transactions involving the same item, each of those 100 transactions is taxed 1 time. 

The fact that you don't agree that there is a distinction between an object and an activity does not alter the law. 

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And just because someone put it on paper doesn't mean I'm obligated to follow it.  The whole meaning around the cause of celebration today and the very essence of our American identity is rebelling against unjust "laws"; especially those that steal from the average citizen to give to the degenerate dregs and the corrupt elite.

[luckythewinner]

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@Anonymous wrote:
And just because someone put it on paper doesn't mean I'm obligated to follow it.  The whole meaning around the cause of celebration today and the very essence of our American identity is rebelling against unjust "laws"; especially those that steal from the average citizen to give to the degenerate dregs and the corrupt elite.

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ROTFL.

Are you seriously equating our forefathers risking their lives in the revolutionary war with your campaign  against "unjust" sales taxes on used trinkets?  

[mam98031]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@luckythewinner wrote:

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

Semantics ... the Superman Socks that sold at Ben Franklin's when they were new in 1979 were taxed then and if resold today on eBay would be taxed again ... I think you and some others know what I am talking about ... the item is taxed twice in this example and I don't agree with it ...

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What you are calling "semantics" is an explanation of the fundamental concept behind a sales tax.

If there are 100 transactions involving the same item, each of those 100 transactions is taxed 1 time. 

The fact that you don't agree that there is a distinction between an object and an activity does not alter the law. 

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And just because someone put it on paper doesn't mean I'm obligated to follow it.  The whole meaning around the cause of celebration today and the very essence of our American identity is rebelling against unjust "laws"; especially those that steal from the average citizen to give to the degenerate dregs and the corrupt elite.

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WHAT?!?!?

I don't like the speed limits on some of our roads.  If I make the choice to go above the stated limits, then I'm risking getting a fine because what I'm doing is against the law.  I could argue that I'm a tax payer, therefore I own the road in which I'm driving on, how far do you think that will get me in front of a judge???  I bet nowhere would likely be the answer.  

I could think of answers galore, but certainly that would get quite boring.  

Today represents how hard people have fought over the years for their freedoms.  Celebrate those that have made the ultimate price to insure that we have our way of life.  Celebrate those that continue to defend our honor and our freedoms.  It's a celebration for a hard fought journey to obtain and retain our freedom.

While you may not like sales tax, it is a part of our way of life in most states.  If you don't like the laws of your state, fight them.  Protest them.  Run for office.  But just trying to ignore the laws you don't like and abide by those you approve of will surely end up with problems in your life you wouldn't otherwise have.

[flipper2flipper]

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

I saw this post on the M2M board ...

I agree 110% that "used" items, collectibles, antiques, etc ... meaning any thing that isn't "current and new" should NOT be subject to sales tax.  The sales tax was paid at the original point of purchase (except in Delaware) so the state got their cut then ... charging tax again on these items is at a minimum Double Taxation ... time to throw something other then Tea into the Boston Harbor ... can I get an "Amen?"

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@mr_lincoln 

I agree that it is double-taxation.

However, it is not the most OUTRAGEOUS form of double-taxation.

The most OUTRAGEOUS form of double-taxation is the taxation of Social Security Benefits.

Until they retire, most people are not aware that up to 85% of their Social Security Benefits can be taxed AGAIN on their annual IRS Form 1040 ( or whatever Form they use ) after they retire.

The employee's wages were taxed on the GROSS ( pre-tax ) Wages when they were earned.

Then, Federal income tax, Social Security Tax, State Income Tax ( and any other applicable tax ) was deducted from the employee's Gross Wages to arrive at a Net Pay Check Amount.

So then fast forward say 30 or 35 years to the year that the employee retires.

When the now-retired employee sits down to do his Federal Tax Return for the year, he notices that he got a 1099 from Social Security, and he notices on Form 1040:

Line 5a: Social Security Benefits .... and to the right of that is line 5b: Taxable Amount.

The retiree then goes to the instructions for Line 5, and sees the "impossible to understand" FULL PAGE WORKSHEET that he has to fill out to see how much of his Social Security Benefits, if any, he has to pay Federal Income Tax on !

In my opinion, it is OUTRAGEOUS that ANYONE has to pay Federal Income Tax on Social Security Benefits since the wages that earned those Social Security Benefit6s were taxed when the employee earned those wages during his / her 30 - 35 year career.

Here is the link to an article that explains in simple terms how it all works,  and how up to 85% of your Social Security Benefits can be subject to Federal Income Tax.

There is also a simple calculator at the bottom of that article so that you can play around with your own numbers to estimate how much of your Social Security Benefits you might have to pay income tax on:

( The article is on The Motley Fool Website, but Ebay won't let me post the link ...... so just do a Google Search of:

"Social Security Tax Calculator: Are Your Retirement Benefits Taxable?"

Totally OUTRAGEOUS double-taxation.

[hillbillymedia]

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

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@soh.maryl wrote:

Yes, I understand that some cities/states require a permit for a garage sale.

But what department of the city or state enforces that rule?

So the garage seller would have to keep track of how much he sold in order to pay tax on the total? What keeps him from reporting much less than he made?

Not trying to be argumentative, just wondering how this would be enforced?

In most localities that I've lived in, the majority of yard or garage sales are on a weekend.  So would it be worth it to the city to have someone drive around on the weekend to check for sales or permits? 

In my town, you are supposed to buy a permit for $5 at city hall.  It's good for one weekend.  They did this to stop those people who have one absolutely every weekend, but, again, don't know how or why they could enforce it unless neighbors complained to law enforcement.

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This is similar to what I posted ... Neighbors complained in the borough we lived in because people were running a weekly business out of the yard, garage or off their porch ... so it initially self policed so to speak.  The permits issued had to be displayed the week of the sale, not the day before, the week before, plenty of time for the local constable to drive by and check the neighborhood to see who was having a sale ...

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A few years back I read that somewhere they shut a kids lemonade stand down for no permit. Details or how true it was I have no clue. I have CRS syndrome. 

[Anonymous]

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@luckythewinner wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:
And just because someone put it on paper doesn't mean I'm obligated to follow it.  The whole meaning around the cause of celebration today and the very essence of our American identity is rebelling against unjust "laws"; especially those that steal from the average citizen to give to the degenerate dregs and the corrupt elite.

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ROTFL.

Are you seriously equating our forefathers risking their lives in the revolutionary war with your campaign  against "unjust" sales taxes on used trinkets?  

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Abso-**bleep**-lutelty!  Learn your history.  The 12 years leading up to the first shots of the Rev War in April of 1775 were rife with the colonists doing exactly what some are engaging in now; civil disobedience and rebellion against unjust laws.  Just a refresher in case you weren't paying attention during 6th-grade history class, a very elementary example is the Boston Tea Party was in response to an increase in tax on tea; not a necessity but rather a luxury item item at the time.  They pleaded, begged, appealed, attempted to work within a corrupt system until the only option was force of arms.  So yes, I am 100% equating the current times to the 1760's and our Founders plight as they did everything in their power to avoid a shooting match..  And thank God they did, or this conversation would never have even been possible.  So you can ROTFL all you want, but know you have the freedom to do so because others gave their lives to make it possible for you to mock their ideals today.    

And for what it's worth, I served and once swore an oath and wrote a blank check to protect the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.  How about you? 

[bbravo65]

Amen...!
And I'm tired of keep paying taxes to our freely spending government...

[Anonymous]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@luckythewinner wrote:

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

Semantics ... the Superman Socks that sold at Ben Franklin's when they were new in 1979 were taxed then and if resold today on eBay would be taxed again ... I think you and some others know what I am talking about ... the item is taxed twice in this example and I don't agree with it ...

---

What you are calling "semantics" is an explanation of the fundamental concept behind a sales tax.

If there are 100 transactions involving the same item, each of those 100 transactions is taxed 1 time. 

The fact that you don't agree that there is a distinction between an object and an activity does not alter the law. 

---

And just because someone put it on paper doesn't mean I'm obligated to follow it.  The whole meaning around the cause of celebration today and the very essence of our American identity is rebelling against unjust "laws"; especially those that steal from the average citizen to give to the degenerate dregs and the corrupt elite.

---

WHAT?!?!?

I don't like the speed limits on some of our roads.  If I make the choice to go above the stated limits, then I'm risking getting a fine because what I'm doing is against the law.  I could argue that I'm a tax payer, therefore I own the road in which I'm driving on, how far do you think that will get me in front of a judge???  I bet nowhere would likely be the answer.  

I could think of answers galore, but certainly that would get quite boring.  

Today represents how hard people have fought over the years for their freedoms.  Celebrate those that have made the ultimate price to insure that we have our way of life.  Celebrate those that continue to defend our honor and our freedoms.  It's a celebration for a hard fought journey to obtain and retain our freedom.

While you may not like sales tax, it is a part of our way of life in most states.  If you don't like the laws of your state, fight them.  Protest them.  Run for office.  But just trying to ignore the laws you don't like and abide by those you approve of will surely end up with problems in your life you wouldn't otherwise have.

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I live in the great state of Alaska without all the tyranny that most people unfortunately live under in the Lower 48.  Our Founders were outlaws who gave the middle finger to the "laws" of an unjust and corrupt government.  So thank God and the nearest veteran that you have the freedom to complain rather than be killed for your beliefs AND don't ever think you can take rights away from us who refuse to accept the yoke of tyranny.  Because Live Free or Die isn't just a T-shirt to a lot of us; it's a reality.  

And for what it's worth I served in combat to protect this country.  How about you? 

[ed8108]

More tax dollars appear always needed for public sector growth &  growth of government spending.

[bbravo65]

@Anonymous...thank you for your service...your sacrifice for this nation will not be forgotten...may God bless you and your family...

[luckythewinner]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Learn your history.

They pleaded, begged, appealed, attempted to work within a corrupt system until the only option was force of arms.

 So yes, I am 100% equating the current times to the 1760's and our Founders plight

 I served and once swore an oath and wrote a blank check to protect the Constitution

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My history tells me that if you are 100% equating the current sales tax situation with the forefather's need to take up arms against a corrupt system ... then the "corrupt system" you would currently be taking up arms against would be very same Constitution you swore to defend.