TARGETED FOR EXTINCTION?

[vintageista]

I don't like to buy into conspiracy memes but something is REALLY wrong at eBay or they have just decided they don't want me any longer! I run 3 sites on eBay, my main site, the one I spend the most time on and depend on, is the site with this name, I've been here 20 years & other than a few slow periods, it has made rather dependable sales, I am now down 29.6% since last month.

I have a smaller collectibles site & I fully realize those are not hot items, but have been making occasional sales there, that site is down 42.1% same period . The 3rd site I am helping a terminally-ill friend with, just so he can run out his inventory, it is small, doesn't require much maintenance, mostly all I have to do is mail packages, but has made steady sales for years, it is down 26.8%,

These sites are very different types of products, so really can't be blamed on specific merchandise. This has all happened since OCT 15 to now! Nothing seems to help! I am to the point of panic! I had to borrow money from my son to pay my rent this month if I can no longer depend on eBay, I will be out on the street by year's end! This has always been the best selling season, but not this year! The economy is good, stores are packed! But something is just not right!

I've heard all the stories of eBay wanting to get rid of small sellers and I never put much stock in that, but now I am wondering, is it maybe true??

I really wish I knew some way to jazz sales, but nothing seems to be working any longer!

[caninekopz]

Lynn, 

you are correct that no one here has to take any advice.  But we come here as a group to seek what the heck is going on.  There are a lot of hard facts that have and are currently being shown that Ebay has issues with their searches, listings, numbers (averages, views and stats) and much more.  Ebay has changed everything without any input from the sellers, who as far as I am concerned, have as much stake here as a shareholder.  I helped build Ebay with the fees I have paid.  Yes, Ebay has helped me build about 20% of my business.

When you have the cheerleading squad that continues telling people that they are listing too many used clothes and that is why their sales are down, when they know darn good and well that there are serious problems with Ebay........well you are correct, that is their opinion but purposely leading folks that are asking legitimate questions, down the wrong path, is not a healthy thing to do either.  There are those here that seem to think because they have a sale a day that there is nothing wrong with Ebay.  But when I go from 40 to 60 sales a day down to under 10, and I have items in all genres, then please do not tell me that used clothing is why my sales are down.  

Tips and helpful hints are always welcome by all, even if I don't think that will help my cause, it may help someone else.  But to deny the facts in front of us and tell people that just don't understand, that nothing is wrong is not a good thing either.  Some here, find it amusing to play games.  So when they get the game thrown back in their face I do not feel sorry for them 

Rich 

[muttlymob]

---

@caninekopz wrote:

When you have the cheerleading squad that continues telling people that they are listing too many used clothes and that is why their sales are down, when they know darn good and well that there are serious problems with Ebay........

---

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Even if all the eBay problems were fixed, if eBay stopped breaking things that don't need breaking, etc., there are some sellers who will not survive no matter what.  Because they are selling things that no one wants to buy.  Because their listings are a mess.  Because they are overpricing.  Or a variety of other things.

It is just as harmful to tell every seller, no matter what or how they sell, that eBay problems are at fault without thoughtfully considering the seller himself. 

Blindly supporting sellers no matter what they do is no more helpful than blindly supporting eBay no matter what they do.

[zamo-zuan]

---

@muttlymob wrote:

---

@caninekopz wrote:

When you have the cheerleading squad that continues telling people that they are listing too many used clothes and that is why their sales are down, when they know darn good and well that there are serious problems with Ebay........

---

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Even if all the eBay problems were fixed, if eBay stopped breaking things that don't need breaking, etc., there are some sellers who will not survive no matter what.  Because they are selling things that no one wants to buy.  Because their listings are a mess.  Because they are overpricing.  Or a variety of other things.

It is just as harmful to tell every seller, no matter what or how they sell, that eBay problems are at fault without thoughtfully considering the seller himself. 

Blindly supporting sellers no matter what they do is no more helpful than blindly supporting eBay no matter what they do.

---

You are right, they are not mutually exclusive. So why should we accept answers that are exclusively saying that eBay is fine and it is the sellers who are at fault? We shouldn't have to.

This forum is intended for sellers to support each other. It is not "blind", it is the intended purpose. 

How about attempting to see if there's listing issues, or if their prices are too high, or if there's any other issues at hand? Isn't that our duty as a community? To determine IF there is a problem? Or should we just declare "It's your fault, everything is working as intended, period."? If we do that, how could anyone here receive help? 

Which has more risks involved? Treating sellers as if they are guilty and not helping them, or treating sellers as if they may have a legitimate problem, and at the very least attempting to assess the problem before determining if they are at fault?

The fact is, nowhere was this case assessed thoroughly enough to make the claim that "everything is working fine". The research & assessment was not made, prior to claiming "it is the sellers fault". Therefore, we have no business telling this seller it's their fault, without any evidence saying so. 

[18704d]

"You are right, they are not mutually exclusive. So why should we accept answers that are exclusively saying that eBay is fine and it is the sellers who are at fault? We shouldn't have to."

----------

I don't think anyone has to accept someone else's answers.

I just feel those alternate answers should be allowed here, as long as they are within board policy.

Let the individual sellers and lurkers decide if they find those answers valid or beneficial to themselves.

I personally believe there are many issues and problems on eBay,

of the type that's being discussed on this thread and many others.

However I do like to hear answers reminding us to double-check our listings, what we sell, the sell through rates, etc.

I've read advice here about selling clothes and I've taken that advice... I've decided not to list any myself.  

Anyway, you and caninekopz (and a few others) have very good points.

Thank you for taking the time to answer me.

I guess.. to sum it up.

What would the answer be to posting here?

Should responses be reported to eBay, to Lithium, to be taken down, if they contain information we don't agree with?

I've read advice here to Not sell anything over $50.00 or $100.00, yet I'm still listing and selling items for hundreds over that limit.

I've heard to not use free shipping, or not to take long returns because it'll be harmful (false returns), yet I only use free shipping, and free 30 or 60 day returns.

Those are just advice I read here, but I don't follow it.

Thanks for listening,

Lynn

[escuintla]

You need to find items that are rare, or items that are hot for a community of buyers. I cater to Vietnamese buyers. I happen to have bought a huge lot of CDs many years ago, many are still in boxes. And I am lucky to have found lots of things that can be sold for a good profit no matter how Ebay is doing. 

Find your niche, you will make it. 

[grasshopperx]

THANK YOU for your explanation. I wish more smart techies like you would post. It's like going under an old car and monkeying around. The more you tear apart, the more that seems to break.

[zamo-zuan]

---

@18704d wrote:

"You are right, they are not mutually exclusive. So why should we accept answers that are exclusively saying that eBay is fine and it is the sellers who are at fault? We shouldn't have to."

----------

I don't think anyone has to accept someone else's answers.

I just feel those alternate answers should be allowed here, as long as they are within board policy.

Let the individual sellers and lurkers decide if they find those answers valid or beneficial to themselves.

I personally believe there are many issues and problems on eBay,

of the type that's being discussed on this thread and many others.

However I do like to hear answers reminding us to double-check our listings, what we sell, the sell through rates, etc.

I've read advice here about selling clothes and I've taken that advice... I've decided not to list any myself.  

Anyway, you and caninekopz (and a few others) have very good points.

Thank you for taking the time to answer me.

I guess.. to sum it up.

What would the answer be to posting here?

Should responses be reported to eBay, to Lithium, to be taken down, if they contain information we don't agree with?

I've read advice here to Not sell anything over $50.00 or $100.00, yet I'm still listing and selling items for hundreds over that limit.

I've heard to not use free shipping, or not to take long returns because it'll be harmful (false returns), yet I only use free shipping, and free 30 or 60 day returns.

Those are just advice I read here, but I don't follow it.

Thanks for listening,

Lynn

---

By all means, people have all rights to their own opinions.

The main difference between that and what I am discussing in this case, is if you have to intentionally dismiss known facts, are you simply "sharing an opinion"? Or are you bending or leaving out the facts to be intentionally misleading? 

That's the issue at hand here. 

Let's put together an example of this:

If we were having an actual discussion, and you shared some information that differed from mine.. I'm expected to therefore take that in to consideration. If you inform me that eBay representatives are no longer doing holds on INR cases, then that is something I would take in to consideration with future posts.

But then if in the same topic, I were to reply it to it (providing evidence that I have read it), and then to another user I say "If you have an INR case, eBay will ALWAYS put a hold on it, to give you adequate time for delivery. If they do not put it on hold, then you must have done something else wrong to where eBay will not help you. How about tell the truth next time?". 

Am I simply sharing an opinion at that point? Is that what you would call what I would be doing in that case? Or would I be intentionally spreading false information that could harm other sellers? Furthermore, bending the information so I am able to cause grief & BLAME and falsely ACCUSE other sellers, when they have not done anything wrong.

For the record, this is not a completely ficticious example. These were actual comments that I've witnessed, that are part of the pattern I mentioned.

[18704d]

"The main difference between that and what I am discussing in this case, is if you have to intentionally dismiss known facts, are you simply "sharing an opinion"? Or are you bending or leaving out the facts to be intentionally misleading?

Am I simply sharing an opinion at that point? Is that what you would call what I would be doing in that case? Or would I be intentionally spreading false information that could harm other sellers?"

--------------

Very very good points.

This may not be new to these long-standing discussion boards.

I guess in the past, the 'checks and balances' was that false info was quickly corrected by other boardies.

Generally speaking, and not directed at any single poster on this board,

IF

intentional false advice was given, with the Sole Desire to Harm other sellers here,

Is that a board violation which can be dealt with under the Rules here?

Thanks

Lynn

[18704d]

Actually, I think I found my own answer as follows:

Rules of Engagement
https://community.ebay.com/t5/About-the-Community/Rules-of-Engagement/td-p/26164369


2. Help keep the Community clean.

"Please report inappropriate behavior. If you see any offensive, abusive, patently false, or otherwise inappropriate content (including posts, pictures, and videos), please click on the “Report Inappropriate Content” link that is attached to the post or private message.  This will alert the moderators and they can look into the issue. We do ask that you only submit one report per post.  eBay will not discuss actions taken on a user with any other user. The reporting function is anonymous."

Lynn

[kh-gary]

Hello everyone,

This thread is getting a bit heated. Please remember that it’s fine to disagree with others, but discussion should always remain courteous and respectful as required by the Rules of Engagement.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[castlemagicmemories]

---

@18704d wrote:

"The main difference between that and what I am discussing in this case, is if you have to intentionally dismiss known facts, are you simply "sharing an opinion"? Or are you bending or leaving out the facts to be intentionally misleading?

Am I simply sharing an opinion at that point? Is that what you would call what I would be doing in that case? Or would I be intentionally spreading false information that could harm other sellers?"

--------------

Very very good points.

This may not be new to these long-standing discussion boards.

I guess in the past, the 'checks and balances' was that false info was quickly corrected by other boardies.

Generally speaking, and not directed at any single poster on this board,

IF

intentional false advice was given, with the Sole Desire to Harm other sellers here,

Is that a board violation which can be dealt with under the Rules here?

Thanks

Lynn

---

I would think that comes under Rule # 10:

Sharing patently false information.  Posting patently false or unsubstantiated content is harmful to other members and goes against the spirit of the Community.

[zamo-zuan]

---

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

---

@18704d wrote:

"The main difference between that and what I am discussing in this case, is if you have to intentionally dismiss known facts, are you simply "sharing an opinion"? Or are you bending or leaving out the facts to be intentionally misleading?

Am I simply sharing an opinion at that point? Is that what you would call what I would be doing in that case? Or would I be intentionally spreading false information that could harm other sellers?"

--------------

Very very good points.

This may not be new to these long-standing discussion boards.

I guess in the past, the 'checks and balances' was that false info was quickly corrected by other boardies.

Generally speaking, and not directed at any single poster on this board,

IF

intentional false advice was given, with the Sole Desire to Harm other sellers here,

Is that a board violation which can be dealt with under the Rules here?

Thanks

Lynn

---

I would think that comes under Rule # 10:

Sharing patently false information.  Posting patently false or unsubstantiated content is harmful to other members and goes against the spirit of the Community.

---

It does. 

I actually mentioned that to a mod before. But understandably, that is a hard one to prove from a mods perspective. It's easy to claim you weren't aware of these things in the first place.

You have to follow users extensive posting history to familiar with what they are aware of, and have had discussions with the same people prior. Unless you follow these boards for a long time, through many different threads and topics, it's hard to notice the pattern, and even once you do notice it, the past comments were hundreds of posts ago and hard to track in history.

That's why it's so dangerous that new users come here and don't know who is being honest, yet they see an extensive posting history and think there may be some credibility. Or just give up out of frustration, which is an even worse outcome. 

Notice how & when the OP stopped responding in this topic? Did he/she even get all of the help or support that people have tried to give?

I will be honest, I have taken breaks from the forum because of posting like this. Saying my honest experiences, and trying to help people on here, also means you have to constantly defend yourself from false accusations - even though you are saying the honest truth. And then people try to twist things you said earlier to hurt your credibility. All the while, you are trying to help people, and have other users telling them to leave eBay.

It's a shame, because this makes the few "good" posters who are very constructive, leave the community, because it's so much stress when you are trying to help people. It's a poor return for trying to do a good thing and help others.

I don't know, maybe I'm just idealistic. But people who put in a lot of time and effort to constructively help the community, and users coming here for help, should not be treated as if "guilty until proven innocent". Shouldn't that treatment be for the ones actually causing grief or not being constructive...?

[castlemagicmemories]

Actually rule # 10 was added last year because of just that pattern becoming obvious with certain posters (that is not against anyone posting here).

I guess sometimes it is all too easy to offer a viewpoint that seems to be a reason, such as clothing sellers having low sales because of the intense competition.  You know, the obvious.

And there have been posts where a little digging unearths reasons, such as items being wildly over priced, an opinion that posters in general may share.  Or poor pictures or minimal descriptions~see pictures.  

So the open mind may not be there for these reasons.

[zamo-zuan]

---

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

Actually rule # 10 was added last year because of just that pattern becoming obvious with certain posters (that is not against anyone posting here).

I guess sometimes it is all too easy to offer a viewpoint that seems to be a reason, such as clothing sellers having low sales because of the intense competition.  You know, the obvious.

And there have been posts where a little digging unearths reasons, such as items being wildly over priced, an opinion that posters in general may share.  Or poor pictures or minimal descriptions~see pictures.  

So the open mind may not be there for these reasons.

---

Yeah, I know. It's just not right to say "case closed!" due to a single obvious aspect. Some sellers are still making huge profits in categories such as clothing. It might seem logical that the problem is due to a crowded category, but it defies logic if we happen to be speaking to the #1 seller in their clothing category and they suddenly see a 50% drop in impressions on thousands of listings compared to last month.

In order to treat that person properly, we must do a little assessment to determine it's that reason first. Otherwise, is anything we're saying really helpful? Or are we just jumping to conclusions and blowing smoke? 

[pburn]

---

@zamo-zuan wrote:I actually mentioned that to a mod before. But understandably, that is a hard one to prove from a mods perspective. It's easy to claim you weren't aware of these things in the first place.

You have to follow users extensive posting history to familiar with what they are aware of, and have had discussions with the same people prior. Unless you follow these boards for a long time, through many different threads and topics, it's hard to notice the pattern, and even once you do notice it, the past comments were hundreds of posts ago and hard to track in history.

That's why it's so dangerous that new users come here and don't know who is being honest, yet they see an extensive posting history and think there may be some credibility. Or just give up out of frustration, which is an even worse outcome. 

---

I agree.

I don't see anything in Rule #10 that speaks to intent or to a pattern or however else we could describe it. It is simply a violation of the Community Guidelines for someone to post patently false information. Any post containing false information can be reported for the mods' review. Nothing in Rule #10 says it has to be intentional or malicious. All it has to be is false. It doesn't matter if a poster wasn't "aware of these things in the first place." You shouldn't have to prove anything to the mods other than the information you're objecting to is false. Patently doesn't mean anything more than "clearly" or "undeniably." If eBay wants the rule to mean something else, they need to change the verbiage.

Any poster can post something false in the haste to be the first one to post or in an attempt to get helpfuls or even from believing someone else's incorrect information without researching it themselves, and then passing it along as a fact. Even the most otherwise-reliable posters, or the ones who have been around for a long time, or ones with a lot of posts or a lot of helpfuls or a lot of solutions can get it wrong. You can report their posts for containing false information as well, if you feel it's appropriate.