Suspicious buyer wants me to ship to a freight forwarder that is known for scams

[wesie-43]

I'm a new seller selling a high value item which is usually a target for scammers. I checked his page and he has all positive reviews while I can't check if he's us verified or not his PP is clearly Chinese so prob not. This is his address 1140 River Road, Apt New Castle DE 19720,  but that address is a freight forwarder to HK or China which is also known for scams. Their excuse is usually defective and would request a return even though I put no returns. This is a brand new item still all sealed up with original tape.

I've read that if I ship to freight forward as long as it arrives, my liability is over? However, I also read that PP usually sides with the buyer and can screw me over.

Don't want to lose such a big item to a scam. I'm trying to see if Ebay will do anything about it and if I'll get hit with anything if I decide to cancel.


https://badbuyerlist.org/buyer/2efc452796f2e37e48e98ee5

[simba6]

A buyer loses protection if the item is reshipped.   PP and credit cards can have their own rules. But, that does not matter as any buyer can file a case. No need for a reshipper  if that is their plan.

However, refusing to ship will get you a very serious NPS defect. Much more than one of those can get you suspended from selling for life.

[wesie-43]

Ah shoot, that is bad. That means I have to ship? Even if it's a high risk place?

I've read on that site that the buyer can just file a PP claim if they lose the ebay.

[gwzcomps]

@wesie-43   You are never covered when it comes to eBay. There are a million different ways buyers can rip you off and only a handful of ways to protect yourself.  I sell electronics and have had buyers that use various freight forwarders.  Used to be that a freight forwarder was guaranteed protection in disputes. The eBay staff on here have indicated otherwise now days.

There are a few things you can do to protect yourself:

• Pack that graphics card well! Like well enough to throw it out of a skyscraper. 2 inches minimum of bubble wrap or a nice foam with some give to it.  Void fill the empty spaces with something that can't get crushed down like packing peanuts or small chunks of foam.  Shake the box.  If the contents shift around you didn't pack it good enough.
• ONLY SHIP TO THE ADDRESS SUPPLIED IN THE PURCHASE.  This is a very important one.  Changing the address in any way will void any seller "protections" you may have.
• When you ship eBay policy requires you to fully insure and require signature confirmation for items over $750
• When you drop the package off get a scan and a receipt to show you dropped it off.  USPS is doing an even worse job with scanning right now.

Alternatively if you are really uncomfortable there technically isn't anything stopping you from canceling the sale.  There will be consequences on your eBay account though.  Hopefully whatever you choose it works out for you since that is a good chunk of money.

[hurryagain]

@simba6 

OP shows that they ship to US only.  Does that mean that his responsibility end when the item arrives at it's US destination?

Perhaps PP and the buyer's CC company would also take that into consideration...???

@wesie-43 

If the shipping address that the buyer wants you to send the item to is different than their eBay/PP address,  do not to alter the address...and if their original eBay mailing address is in China, you could cancel the sale due to "problem with buyer's address" since you only sell in the US.

[chapeau-noir]

I've shipped to that outfit before - it's a shipping logistics outfit.  I had no problems but I've only used that one a couple of times versus the one in Doral, FL, San Francisco, Portland or that one on the NY Docks, and I don't really sell anything remotely expensive.

May be an unpopular opinion, but TBH, at that amount, I would consider that account with only 1 FB sacrificial and cancel the sale.   That's a lot of money for a new seller riding on the line with a possibly dodgy reshipper.

[gwzcomps]

So this might be somewhat out of context since this thread is old enough for my goldfish memory to not remember all of it. This was a semi recent comment an eBay staff member made about shipping forwarder protections:

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Freight-forwarders/m-p/30669377/highlight/true#M1546377

I don't remember the whole thread so it might be worth the read beyond just that one comment.

[dtexley3]

---

@wesie-43 wrote:

Ah shoot, that is bad. That means I have to ship? Even if it's a high risk place?

I've read on that site that the buyer can just file a PP claim if they lose the ebay.

---

The reshippers are typically NOT a high risk place. The overseas address buyers are the issue but the seller only sees the reshipper address to complain about.

Sellers are only responsible for the item to get to the reshipper.  If the buyer tries to claim INR, a simple confirmation from the reshipper is all that's needed to close it in the seller's favor.  If the buyer claims NAD they have to ship it back to the reshipper at their own expense.  The seller only needs to provide a shipping label from the reshipper to themself.

If you know your rights, reshippers are slightly less risky than domestic sales, not by much, but a little.

[chapeau-noir]

---

@gwzcomps wrote:
So this might be somewhat out of context since this thread is old enough for my goldfish memory to not remember all of it. This was a semi recent comment an eBay staff member made about shipping forwarder protections:

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Freight-forwarders/m-p/30669377/highlight/true#M1546377

I don't remember the whole thread so it might be worth the read beyond just that one comment.

---

I remember that, too and that's a good thread to bring up - it was a clarification of the protection policy when shipping to freight forwarders.  It used to be in all cases our responsibility as a seller ended when the item arrived at the freight forwardrer.  Then they changed it to not ending there because "Someone at that freight forwarder may have ordered the item for themselves and had it shipped there" (granted, a whole maybe .0000000001% possibility).  However, the clarification is that if the item was, indeed, forwarded on, then the protection would be envoked.  But I'll tell you what, I rarely know where an item is going after I ship it to a freight forwarder save in a general sense (i.e., the one in Doral seems to go to So America, Largedistant goes to the far east, as I think does the one in in Portland, the New York one I did find shipped my item to Turkey).

ETA: I normally have no problems with freight forwarders, in fact, I'm usually happy to see them and they're repeat customers.

This item, though, and the fact that the forwarder is not really that established and there appears to have been problems - well, just the money alone.

[pburn]

Just want to add that the "Bad Buyer List" you linked is a crock. Anyone can post anything with absolutely no documentation or verification. And anonymously. I've seen some real abuses on that site. Don't use it.

[wesie-43]

@gwzcompsThat is worrying, I thought I would be covered and done when shipped to a freight forward but it seems not. I plan to do pick up so the receipt will be digital, hopefully that is fine. However, it is indeed a lot of money and I don't think I want to take the risk.

@hurryagainYes, I clearly only allowed US only but it seems this circumvented that and I got confused when I realized he clearly did not live in the US.

@chapeau-noirWere all your sales to this freight forwarder fine? It's worrying that users keep reporting this place. The buyer has around 81 reviews all positive from buying items so that is also confusing me since if he is a scammer how could he have such reviews. If I am still liable shipping to a freight forward I might just cancel this and take the hit.

@dtexley3  Yes, I also understand that. It's just that this place has been reported so many times I feel like a dummy going in knowing I'll get hit and screwed over. If he does do NAD or defective wouldn't the buyer just send like a rock or some empty box? There was a post below me with a NAD and he still got screwed over twice by PP and Ebay.

[gwzcomps]

---

@chapeau-noir wrote:

---

@gwzcomps wrote:
So this might be somewhat out of context since this thread is old enough for my goldfish memory to not remember all of it. This was a semi recent comment an eBay staff member made about shipping forwarder protections:

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Freight-forwarders/m-p/30669377/highlight/true#M1546377

I don't remember the whole thread so it might be worth the read beyond just that one comment.

---

I remember that, too and that's a good thread to bring up - it was a clarification of the protection policy when shipping to freight forwarders.  It used to be in all cases our responsibility as a seller ended when the item arrived at the freight forwardrer.  Then they changed it to not ending there because "Someone at that freight forwarder may have ordered the item for themselves and had it shipped there" (granted, a whole maybe .0000000001% possibility).  However, the clarification is that if the item was, indeed, forwarded on, then the protection would be envoked.  But I'll tell you what, I rarely know where an item is going after I ship it to a freight forwarder save in a general sense (i.e., the one in Doral seems to go to So America, Largedistant goes to the far east, as I think does the one in in Portland, the New York one I did find shipped my item to Turkey).

ETA: I normally have no problems with freight forwarders, in fact, I'm usually happy to see them and they're repeat customers.

This item, though, and the fact that the forwarder is not really that established and there appears to have been problems - well, just the money alone.

---

It always seems like eBay is willing to go above and beyond and even further for the buyers.  I too haven't had too many problems with freight forwarders.  Usually the problem is when the customs people fondle my goods I sold and lose a part.  Also a few bad buyers mad when they bought a clearly broken item they lacked the skill to fix filing false SNADs.

[gwzcomps]

Shipping forwarders are a really gray area anymore. Just be glad it wasn't through eBay's global shipping program... Depending on who you talk to with CS you will get different answers on how to handle this. If you do decide to cancel the sale I wouldn't relist the card here since you will just run into the same problem most likely. Just remember that no matter what you do there is always the risk of consequences.

[hurryagain]

@wesie-43 

What does his eBay/PP address show as?  Does it show as the freight forwarding company address or does it show XXX China?

If his eBay/PP address show as XXX China, then I believe that you can rightfully cancel the sale noting "problem with buyer's address," because you only ship to the US and you are only supposed to ship to customer's verified eBay/PayPal address only.

[pburn]

---

@hurryagain wrote:

. . . you are only supposed to ship to customer's verified eBay/PayPal address only.

---

@hurryagain 

Unfortunately, that's a myth. To maintain seller protection in this regard, sellers are required to ship to the "Ship to" address the buyer uses at checkout. Period.

Any buyer is allowed to send a purchase to any address they choose at checkout. You can send items to your aunt in Sheboygan or your old college roommate in New Haven, as long as you've used that as the "Ship to" address at checkout before you've paid for the item. There's no eBay or PayPal verification of the "Ship to" address involved or required.

In the OP's case, if the buyer used a U.S. address as his/her "Ship to" address at checkout, there is no legitimate reason to cancel the sale based on the buyer's address. It doesn't matter whether the buyer lives in China or Kathmandu--if the "Ship to" address is in the U.S., the seller should ship.

If the seller wants to cancel based on "problem with buyer's address," that would be, well, a lie, to put it bluntly.