Super upset by a case eBay awarded to an obvious Scammer. How to protect??

[gear-house]

I am so upset and just left feeling completely vulnerable. Why has eBay made it so simple for any first-time buyer to steal from an established seller?

I sold a GUESS watch to a buyer, an authentic watch that I've sold 15 more of to other buyers without any problem. This buyer, with (0) feedback, opens a case and uploads a picture of a fake Guess watch that looks absolutely nothing like the one I sent. He goes on with why did I send a fake watch, and blah, blah. I immediately confronted the buyer about this attempted scam, told him that what he was trying to do is illegal, I even warned him that I would file a police report if he was successful with that (which I'm going to). I told this buyer (who is in Canada) that I was not going to pay international shipping rates to have that fake watch he was showing sent back to me (he's in Canada) to help assist him in victimizing me, because he already demonstrated that that's what he was doing.

Anyway, several weeks went by, I thought it was over, but then he submitted the case to eBay and eBay gave him his money back. And they say they'll be charging me for it. So, my question is:

WHAT??? How on earth do I protect against a scam like this?? And it is really that easy? I am a top-rated seller that's been on eBay over 20 years, over 25,000+ feedback, and all any first-time buyer has to do is upload a picture of something else and they get their money back? 

Please tell me it's not that easy to steal from me because I feel like the door is wide open for anyone to do this whenever they want with no consequence.

Please tell me I'm wrong.

[coastaltechsolution]

First I understand you are TRS and been on eBay 20+ years as so am I

MBG or CC charge back, if a scum buyer is a thief they are a thief and best advice I can give you is to keep records for showing shrink on taxes 

I know you can file police reports and all that but in reality it just boils down to a thief will steal anywhere any any way 

[klhmdg]

When the buyer opened the case you have to either refund OR supply a return shipping lablel.

IF you do nothing, eBay will refund the buyer in full, allow then to keep the item.

You also get a defect on your account.

There is no seller protection except to work withing the policies AND dont sell anything you cant afford to give away.

Otherwise its that easy to steal here whenever they want.

[reallynicestamps · Accepted solution]

Several weeks? The buyer only has 30 days from delivery to open an eBay dispute.

Be that as it may, even if you have a No Returns policy, you can demand the return of the disputed item and do not have to refund until tracking shows it delivered.

Hostile terms (like No Returns) and hostile reactions to requests for returns are not a Best Practice in retail sales.

• I immediately confronted the buyer
• even warned him that I would file a police report

Sounds like he researched his options and you didn't.

[mtgraves7984]

Please tell me I'm wrong.

@gear-house 

We can't. Had you accepted the Return, the best you could have done was to reduce the amount of the (inevitable) refund, had the fake watch come back.

For what it's worth, I'd recommend that you be proactive next time. After all, your seller metrics are all you have to save.

[gear-house]

Yeah but if the buyer has already shown that it is a scam why would I pay another $17 in shipping costs to help him send that fake watch back to me from Canada? That's insane.

[gear-house]

Here's the thing that gets me though. I accept returns, I accept international returns. But eBay was expecting me to pay for that to be sent back, even though he's already shown he was scamming me? Why would I victimize myself further for paying for that?

[lamber9347]

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@gear-house wrote:

I sold a GUESS watch to a buyer, an authentic watch that I've sold 15 more of to other buyers without any problem. This buyer, with (0) feedback, opens a case and uploads a picture of a fake Guess watch that looks absolutely nothing like the one I sent. He goes on with why did I send a fake watch, and blah, blah. I immediately confronted the buyer about this attempted scam, told him that what he was trying to do is illegal, I even warned him that I would file a police report if he was successful with that (which I'm going to). I told this buyer (who is in Canada) that I was not going to pay international shipping rates to have that fake watch he was showing sent back to me (he's in Canada) to help assist him in victimizing me, because he already demonstrated that that's what he was doing.

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Well, this isn't an advisable manner in which to respond. He's in another country, what sort of police report are you going to open on him? I'm sure it made you feel better to say these things, but you should have accepted the return. There are millions of individual sales on any one given day on eBay. The return system is all automated for this reason. There are too many returns for eBay to get involved in a he said/she said situation. This platform offers a money back guarantee to all buyers. If the buyer claims the item was not as described, they will win any case they open. 

How you need to handle moving forward is to ALWAYS accept the return. Get back whatever they sent you. That is when you can appeal to eBay and fight with your original listing/photos and your past selling account experience. You elevate the case afterwards. Buyer will still get refunded, you can't do anything about that, but you can sometimes get eBay to also refund you. You would only be out for the shipping and fees. Better than where you find yourself now. Best of luck to you....

[ittybitnot]

WHAT??? How on earth do I protect against a scam like this?? And it is really that easy? 

@gear-house 

There is no protection for a scam like this on eBay.  And, yes, it is that easy.  Any item on eBay can be had for free at the seller's expense with a fraudulent claim.  You either step up and agree to buyer fraud, or you get the consequences which are just as bad.  You can "report the buyer" and "provide a police report" and appeal.  Likely you will be denied anyway.  We can hope, however, your reports will save the next seller from a similar fate with this ID.  We don't know how many complaints it will take before the "buyer ID" gets the axe, but when their behavior starts costing EBAY money instead of you, their demise is often faster. 

Yeah but if the buyer has already shown that it is a scam why would I pay another $17 in shipping costs to help him send that fake watch back to me from Canada? That's insane.

To avoid the serious defect you got on your account for not going along with the program.  A couple of these and you could possibly lose your ability to sell here.     "Case without seller resolution" =  seller didn't cooperate with scam = eBay takes action for you = you get the punishment. 

[klhmdg]

@gear-house   No one but you and the buyer know IF it was a scam. I believe you but all you can do is work with in the policies.

eBay will not get involved in a he said she said and will not look at any information.

Sounds like the best case for you in this situation would have been to just refund in full and add the buyer to your BBL.

As it is you lost the item, your FVFs, the buyer was refunded in full so you are also out shipping, and you have a defect on your selling account.

[inhawaii]

That's a tough one.  I feel for you.

A) Accept the return. Pay $17 to have who knows what sent back top you.

The up side to this option is that if the buyer does not send the item back, you win.

B) Do not accept the return. Worst case scenario ebay will refund the seller with your funds and you will lose the cost of the watch and original shipping.

Do what ever your gut tells you to do.  In the meantime, i hope you do/say everything you can to convince the buyer not to file a case with ebay.  Threaten to call the police. Threaten to take legal action.  All empty threats but they don't know that.

Good luck to you!

[gear-house]

Please help me understand how I demand that he send it back? I believe the return was automatically accepted, what eBay was waiting for was for ME to PAY to have his fake watch sent back? They told me I needed to provide the buyer return shipping label which would just result in further loss to myself. Considerable loss, because it was international shipping. I feel like I'm missing something.

[farmalljr]

You aren't missing anything. On international sales, YOU are responsible for getting a label someplace OR sending the buyer the funds to pay for the label. 

This is the RISK selling internationally. You are better off just refunding them and blocking them. You can't win. Now, because you didn't provide a label or just refund the buyer, the buyer gets a full refund and YOU get a defect for not resolving the claim. 

That's how selling internationally works. Non of the shipping programs protect you selling internationally for INAD claims. You will have to refund, send a label/money for a label, or get defects that hurt/get your account closed. 

[ittybitnot]

They told me I needed to provide the buyer return shipping label which would just result in further loss to myself. Please help me understand how I demand that he send it back? 

@gear-house 

I am sorry you are learning the  "hard way" about how eBay works.  Obviously, you cannot provide a label, so you are expected to SEND THE BUYER MONEY (usually through PayPal) for them to purchase their own label to return the watch.  It doesn't matter what watch they return, it doesn't even have to be a watch at all, but only if you front the money and a return of "anything" does not ensue, then you MAY have recourse.   

The system is not logical, it is not fair, there is no intervention by an eBay agent, it is just the system in place for which you have little or no recourse.  

When a claim of this nature is filed, for all intents and purposes for eBay, the buyer's claim become fact regardless of their veracity.  At that point, your description doesn't matter, your photos will no longer be considered and the auto system rolls right along.  eBay considers this as "part of doing business" (for YOU) since it always the seller at risk for most fraud perpetrated on the site.   

[reallynicestamps]

That's how selling internationally works.

That's also how shipping domestically works.

Obviously, you cannot provide a label,

Not true.

A US based seller can buy Canada Post shipping labels through Shippo, and vice versa.

https://apps.goshippo.com/login?next=https://app.goshippo.com/orders/manual/

There may be other companies which sell foreign postage, perhaps stamps.com?