Stamps with an image of hitler and a swastika are ok to list, but not postcards without a swastika?

[estate_echoes]

I had a listing removed for an item that "promotes or glorifies hatred, violence, or discrimination". It is a pre-stamped German government issued postcard celebrating the opening of the Autobahn. hitler and his cronies are on it, but there are no swastikas anywhere. The back is blank. I have an option to appeal the removal. 

1. Is this an actual violation? It was a government issued postal item. If it is a "letter" or "envelope" with a stamp that has an image of hitler & a swastika it is allowed. Is this really not allowed because the policy does specifically state "postcards" ? 

2. Are these appeals handled by humans or the same Artificial (un)Intelligence that removed it in the first place?

3. If you appeal and lose is there a punishment?

[m60driver]

The German Adolph is a no-no to list regardless of context.

[estate_echoes]

Source? 

12,000 listings of stamps with him on it and name in the listing seems to suggest that isnt the case. Way beyond the usual number of listings of banned items listed.  

Looking at search results, it seems that  "Hitler" is a no-no primarily in the Militaria category, which I had used. (stamps and postcard categories seem ok). I believe using other trigger words such as "Nazi Germany" contributed to an automated removal. Which is why I asked if a human looks at an appeal so that can be reasoned or if it is AI and it likely can't.

[go-bad-chicken]

What category was the postcard listed in?

That can often be the reason why one listing such as yours is removed and the same exact postcard in another category is not removed. 

The Nazi stamps located in the stamp category are not going to be removed. 

[estate_echoes]

Yep, I put it in Militaria, and that's likely the issue. And I am thinking an appeal would be lost because it would be trying to have it reinstated in the same category. And relisting it in the stamps category would be risky as I'm likely under the microscope for the removal. 

[fbusoni]

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@estate_echoes wrote:

And I am thinking an appeal would be lost because it would be trying to have it reinstated in the same category. And relisting it in the stamps category would be risky as I'm likely under the microscope for the removal. 

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@estate_echoes 

Correct on all counts.   You are under the microscope, as am I.

A couple years ago I listed a ribbon (the kind that you pin on the lapel of a suit jacket) commemorating the 50th anniversary of the 1945 liberation by US forces of Dachau.   A good news story that did not mention Hitler and displayed no symbols.  

It was taken down.  I called eBay (this happened before AI got involved) and spoke with a "team-lead" who described himself as being in a position to make a decision about the listing.

Not only did he did not know anything about history; I had to explain to him the definition of "liberation."  

He had a single canned response to me, regardless of what I told him: "how would others feel about this listing?  eBay must take this into account."

Conclusion: eBay hires drones, not historians. 

As for why some items are removed and others are not:  part of it is that some folks have just not yet been caught by eBay bots.  HOWEVER.... I am convinced that eBay does NOT apply its standards uniformly because to do so would cut into its bottom line.  So it makes a show of taking listing violations seriously.   I reckon that one day an item identical to yours will be listed and will not be taken down.  Happens regularly.  Meantime, just let it go and move on.  You have some nice stuff, by the way.  

[estate_echoes]

Thanks. My item wouldn't have been taken down had I put it in a stamp or postcard category. I fully understand the "let it go/move on", and have done so in the past. Long ago I got a temporary suspension, despite following policy, which I proved and had lifted by CS along with assurance that I could relist it without risk of anything happening, which I did and was promptly suspended again. But the 'appeal' thing was something I had never seen before and was wondering if it was a (miraculous) improvement or it just operates on the same faulty logic.

The Liberation medal would not upset anyone but not allowing it should upset everyone. I think a simple solution would be to make it take an extra step to see these 'emotionally charged' items, like is done with some adult items. Maybe even a mandatory explanation of the historical significance for the misunderstanding Karens and Kens as well. 

Meanwhile, one can sell and purchase Japanese war items similar to the banned German ones , because their racism motivated invasions and horrific war crimes were largely directed not at whites, but at Asians. I guess some how 'what some people would feel' about these Japanese items doesn't matter because they are predominantly Chinese and South Korean? Or is it because the US's racial discrimination towards Japanese and atomic bombing makes them a victim?

[sin-n-dex]

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@fbusoni wrote:

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@estate_echoes wrote:

And I am thinking an appeal would be lost because it would be trying to have it reinstated in the same category. And relisting it in the stamps category would be risky as I'm likely under the microscope for the removal. 

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@estate_echoes 

Correct on all counts.   You are under the microscope, as am I.

A couple years ago I listed a ribbon (the kind that you pin on the lapel of a suit jacket) commemorating the 50th anniversary of the 1945 liberation by US forces of Dachau.   A good news story that did not mention Hitler and displayed no symbols.  

It was taken down.  I called eBay (this happened before AI got involved) and spoke with a "team-lead" who described himself as being in a position to make a decision about the listing.

Not only did he did not know anything about history; I had to explain to him the definition of "liberation."  

He had a single canned response to me, regardless of what I told him: "how would others feel about this listing?  eBay must take this into account."

Conclusion: eBay hires drones, not historians. 

As for why some items are removed and others are not:  part of it is that some folks have just not yet been caught by eBay bots.  HOWEVER.... I am convinced that eBay does NOT apply its standards uniformly because to do so would cut into its bottom line.  So it makes a show of taking listing violations seriously.   I reckon that one day an item identical to yours will be listed and will not be taken down.  Happens regularly.  Meantime, just let it go and move on.  You have some nice stuff, by the way.  

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OMG, you are so right (about eBay not hiring anyone who understands history). I got two policy violations that were ridiculous (maybe by AI, but the human who reviewed it knew nothing).

I got a policy violation on an Oman banknote because it looked like it was from Iran. I told them Oman and Iran are not the same country and they said "it's kind of almost the same thing so we have to remove it".

I got a policy violation on a British military ensignia from 1948 with the violation message "you cannot list things from Nazi Germany". I informed the drone on the phone that Nazi Germany is 1933-1945, and the ensignia was from the UK, which is not Germany at all, and the war was over by the time it was issued.

I figure I might get a policy once in a while and deserve it, so I fight all these bogus policy violations as much as possible. I listed a silver plated coin and was accused of listing "counterfeit bullion". I told the agent on the phone the coin is not even pretending to be silver, it's plated, it says it's plated, it doesn't look like bullion. They did strike that one down.

C.

[sin-n-dex]

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@estate_echoes wrote:

Thanks. My item wouldn't have been taken down had I put it in a stamp or postcard category. I fully understand the "let it go/move on", and have done so in the past. Long ago I got a temporary suspension, despite following policy, which I proved and had lifted by CS along with assurance that I could relist it without risk of anything happening, which I did and was promptly suspended again. But the 'appeal' thing was something I had never seen before and was wondering if it was a (miraculous) improvement or it just operates on the same faulty logic.

The Liberation medal would not upset anyone but not allowing it should upset everyone. I think a simple solution would be to make it take an extra step to see these 'emotionally charged' items, like is done with some adult items. Maybe even a mandatory explanation of the historical significance for the misunderstanding Karens and Kens as well. 

Meanwhile, one can sell and purchase Japanese war items similar to the banned German ones , because their racism motivated invasions and horrific war crimes were largely directed not at whites, but at Asians. I guess some how 'what some people would feel' about these Japanese items doesn't matter because they are predominantly Chinese and South Korean? Or is it because the US's racial discrimination towards Japanese and atomic bombing makes them a victim?

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If it's been taken down, down try to relist it, no matter how ridiculous the take down reason is. You get suspended if you stack policy violations and that's a big punishment if you sell stuff all the time. It's not worth the risk, just find another venue to sell the card.

C.

[estate_echoes]

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@sin-n-dex wrote:

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@fbusoni wrote:

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@estate_echoes wrote:

And I am thinking an appeal would be lost because it would be trying to have it reinstated in the same category. And relisting it in the stamps category would be risky as I'm likely under the microscope for the removal. 

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@estate_echoes 

Correct on all counts.   You are under the microscope, as am I.

A couple years ago I listed a ribbon (the kind that you pin on the lapel of a suit jacket) commemorating the 50th anniversary of the 1945 liberation by US forces of Dachau.   A good news story that did not mention Hitler and displayed no symbols.  

It was taken down.  I called eBay (this happened before AI got involved) and spoke with a "team-lead" who described himself as being in a position to make a decision about the listing.

Not only did he did not know anything about history; I had to explain to him the definition of "liberation."  

He had a single canned response to me, regardless of what I told him: "how would others feel about this listing?  eBay must take this into account."

Conclusion: eBay hires drones, not historians. 

As for why some items are removed and others are not:  part of it is that some folks have just not yet been caught by eBay bots.  HOWEVER.... I am convinced that eBay does NOT apply its standards uniformly because to do so would cut into its bottom line.  So it makes a show of taking listing violations seriously.   I reckon that one day an item identical to yours will be listed and will not be taken down.  Happens regularly.  Meantime, just let it go and move on.  You have some nice stuff, by the way.  

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OMG, you are so right (about eBay not hiring anyone who understands history). I got two policy violations that were ridiculous (maybe by AI, but the human who reviewed it knew nothing).

I got a policy violation on an Oman banknote because it looked like it was from Iran. I told them Oman and Iran are not the same country and they said "it's kind of almost the same thing so we have to remove it".

I got a policy violation on a British military ensignia from 1948 with the violation message "you cannot list things from Nazi Germany". I informed the drone on the phone that Nazi Germany is 1933-1945, and the ensignia was from the UK, which is not Germany at all, and the war was over by the time it was issued.

I figure I might get a policy once in a while and deserve it, so I fight all these bogus policy violations as much as possible. I listed a silver plated coin and was accused of listing "counterfeit bullion". I told the agent on the phone the coin is not even pretending to be silver, it's plated, it says it's plated, it doesn't look like bullion. They did strike that one down.

C.

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Did you relist the items?

[fbusoni]

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@estate_echoes wrote:

Thanks. My item wouldn't have been taken down had I put it in a stamp or postcard category. I fully understand the "let it go/move on", and have done so in the past. Long ago I got a temporary suspension, despite following policy, which I proved and had lifted by CS along with assurance that I could relist it without risk of anything happening, which I did and was promptly suspended again. But the 'appeal' thing was something I had never seen before and was wondering if it was a (miraculous) improvement or it just operates on the same faulty logic.

The Liberation medal would not upset anyone but not allowing it should upset everyone. I think a simple solution would be to make it take an extra step to see these 'emotionally charged' items, like is done with some adult items. Maybe even a mandatory explanation of the historical significance for the misunderstanding Karens and Kens as well. 

Meanwhile, one can sell and purchase Japanese war items similar to the banned German ones , because their racism motivated invasions and horrific war crimes were largely directed not at whites, but at Asians. I guess some how 'what some people would feel' about these Japanese items doesn't matter because they are predominantly Chinese and South Korean? Or is it because the US's racial discrimination towards Japanese and atomic bombing makes them a victim?

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@estate_echoes 

I listed an item a month or so ago -- a keychain with fake diamonds embedded in it.  Within a few minutes eBay took it down, accusing me of listing an item owned by the USG that was intended for use by the visually impaired.  (Gotta love that "magical AI"!). 

I was allowed to appeal, and I did, and the keychain was re-listed.

That item, however, was not controversial and subject to intense scrutiny like your postcard is likely to be.

Regarding the medal, I might take it up with an eBay rep on Facebook... they are usually Americans with a good command of the English language.

Your reference to Japanese war items is an interesting one... I was unaware that such items were available on eBay.   Perhaps the difference is that the Japanese did not set out to exterminate a group of people because of their ethnicity / religion, although they would have done so if it were possible, no doubt -- given the particularly evil nature of their wartime behavior.    

I cannot venture a guess about the US atomic bomb angle... other than to say I'd be very, very surprised if anyone at eBay HQ knew what the names "Hiroshima" and "Nagasaki" referred to, let alone their significance.     regards

[fbusoni]

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@sin-n-dex wrote:

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I got a policy violation on an Oman banknote because it looked like it was from Iran. I told them Oman and Iran are not the same country and they said "it's kind of almost the same thing so we have to remove it".

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Oman and Iran share two letters.  Close enough for me! 😂

[12345jamesstamps]

It is probably two things :

Another seller or buyer did the : 'report this'.  Possibly someone jealous or a competitor.

And they managed to write in the reason professionally on why it should be removed.

Then, artificial intelligence sees it and listing is removed.

I had 4 listings removed of 58+ listings with the title 'Russia' in it...stamps...only 4...I took down all the other listings with the word 'Russia' in it...why only 4? Someone reported them and it got through artificial intelligence I suppose.

Yet, there are thousands listed with the word 'Russia' in their title. on eBay...'Russia' is an embargo country.

[dirk12955]

I know a little about this subject,  So here's an observation or two.

Hitler and Nazi stamps and coins are absolutely allowed to be listed on ebay.

As a seller.   99.9% of my listings for stamps are in the Stamps/Europe/Germany category

I've purchased collections with these types of Postcards that the OP has

and the item was ended.    Every time I list one of these postcards,   Either in the postcard

category or the Stamps/Germany category,   My listings get ended and I get 

scolded by eBay.     Every time.   

My biggest competitor on eBay has the same exact problem with these postcards.   

   As usual,   There's 100s of them for sale on ebay by other sellers at any given moment.   As I type

this and did a search for "Nazi postcard"   I see over 1100 listings currently.

[estate_echoes]

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@fbusoni wrote:

Perhaps the difference is that the Japanese did not set out to exterminate a group of people because of their ethnicity / religion, 

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Racial superiority was a big motivation for Japanese imperialism. But yes, they were not able to do anything on the scale of the Germans.  Look at South Korean views on the Japanese flag, especially the Rising Star, which many view as on the level of Nazi and Confederate Flags.