Spring Update Changes to handling return requests that appear abandoned?

[blacktopautoparts]

"Changes to handling return requests that appear abandoned

Starting April 1, 2020, we will no longer close returns early at the request of a seller when the buyer has not shipped the item back. Instead, we will wait to ensure buyers have sufficient time to provide proof items they requested to return were shipped back. If we do not receive proof of shipment from your buyers while the return requests are active, we will protect you by removing any negative or neutral feedback left on that transaction."

So is eBay telling us that buyers no longer have a date for when they must return an item by if they open a return/request? This is getting crazy if this is how I am reading this. This is sad if true, they already get 7 days to upload tracking on top of when they must return it. You get some of the sly buyers that know how to work the system to even get an extension. My returns the last 2 months have been out of control, with people incorrectly opening them up and me having to take the time to get them reported so the service metrics don't mess our account up.

[ersatz_sobriquet]

Glitch?

Just about every so called bad programming "glitch" that ebay has ever implemented became POLICY within a year. 

It's no glitch, it's probably ebay deciding that the seller doesn't DESERVE to know the tracking number on the return. 

You can bet your bottom dollar ebay hasn't lost access to that tracking. 

[Anonymous]

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@lasantino wrote:

This is part and parcel the problem..   WHY COULDN'T SOMEONE SET UP A PANEL OF EXPERIENCED SELLERS TO REVIEW THE SPRING SELLER UPDATE BEFORE IT WAS RELEASED.. THOSE SELLERS WOULD HAVE IMMEDIATLY RAISED THIS ISSUE... 

EBAY'S CONTINUAL  ORGANIZATIONAL WORK FLOW PROCESS IS CLEARLY FLAWED... 

Ebay basically shoots first asks questions later.  Its not the first time has happened.   Continued problems surface immediately after ebay makes changes.  Here's my analogy

 So ebay acknowledges that shoot first ask questions later in not an effective way to implement changes.  

someone decides to add a layer of checks before shooting.   so now a group spends time giong over the gun making sure it's clean and ready shoot.  They missed the whole point... how about asking questions before you shoot!..   so ebay says, oh good idea.  They add another layer to the pre roll out stage.. Now they form another group inside ebay that will go and talk to the person in question and find out what he is doing.

guess what happens then.  ebay shoots the guy.  Despite the group having been formed to gather information from the person in question(about to be shot). Despite the group knowing the guy was not a threat.  Ebay didn't set up a process to coordinate the information flow from the group to the shooter.. 

It's just the most back-asward ineffective process control i've every seen in a big company.  

ebay.. how about instead of forming groups ad nauseum that only add layers that confuse an issue.  how about before you shoot.. you ask the guy,, what are you doing here..    oh, ebay says it needs to protect itself from being overtaken by other markets.  NO PROBLEM EBAY.  stand behind a wall and yell at the guy,hey what are you doing here..  THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.    

@Anonymous 

trinton, I can only imagine how stressful your job must be.  Just tell us point blank, please don't double speak or corporate mumbo jumbo.  Is there any person that can actually make changes to the pre implementation process.  Or is ebay such a hodge podge of layer after layer after layer of well meaning management groups  without any ability to act.   Something has got to change. Its not just the actual changes or announcements that ebay makes . It's the seeming lack of the critical "test run" .  And critical to the test run is who is doing the test run!!..  a well meaning test run doesn't do one lick of good if you have people doing the test run that aren't familiar with the nooks and crannies of how things should work.

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Hi @lasantino, I can confirm that we do seek feedback from a panel of experienced sellers prior to announcing our Seller Updates. The feedback we receive is used to prepare our FAQs and potentially make adjustments to the changes we plan to announce. While it seems that you have the impression we do not perform our due diligence when considering the impact of changes to our marketplace, I can assure you that nothing could be further from the truth - a large number of people work very hard on the initiatives included in our Seller Updates and though you may disagree with changes we implement and there will always be room for adjustment as we see the wider impact to our site from updates, we do not take these matters lightly.

To address your questions as you've requested (point blank), of course there is a person who can make changes to the pre-implementation process. We absolutely perform "test runs" before making changes, and these tests involve very knowledgeable individuals at eBay and experienced members of our Community when applicable. We are an organization made of human beings, so while our goal is obviously to deliver meaningful improvements to the eBay experience, we may miss details or go in a direction that ultimately does not create the positive impact we were hoping for, at which point we will continue to adapt and innovate. 

[lasantino]

@Anonymous    thanks very much for the answer.  

I want to assure you, I know that ebay is just operating off the cuff.. I know a lot of thought and money and time is spent preplanning possible changes.  

[lasantino]

@trinton  oops , i mean, I know ebay is not just operating off the cuff.  It's just that there seems to be repeated problems that point to similar disconnects in process control.

[mindmyownbusiness]

That this change is the result of careful study only shows that customer satisfaction (i.e. seller profit and risk) is not part of eBay objective function. Seller risk and profit are "externalities" to eBay.

This policy further creates a barrier to selling high value items on this platform.

With this change, ebay has established a penalty on expensive items.
Items that must be insured cannot be returned using eBay labels.

Even so, there is no reason for eBay to extend the return window 35 days.
I buy a USPS label on USPS or PayPal, the tracking includes note of label being printed.
If I can see that info, eBay can too.

My solution will be to get a refund on the return label before the void deadline regardless of whether ebay keeps the return open. If the buyer later attempts to use the label, label is invalid. Either: 1)  usps will return to sender or addressee for postage due - both of which are me on labels I provide (I use the "mailing zip is different than sender zip function).
or 2) If USPS won't accept package with voided label, buyer contacts eBay, ebay must bill me for another return label.

Because I met my obligation to accept the return, eBay has no basis to refund and let buyer keep the item.

[mobley120]

"I can confirm that we do seek feedback from a panel of experienced sellers prior to announcing our Seller Updates. The feedback we receive is used to prepare our FAQs and potentially make adjustments to the changes we plan to announce. While it seems that you have the impression we do not perform our due diligence when considering the impact of changes to our marketplace, I can assure you that nothing could be further from the truth - a large number of people work very hard on the initiatives included in our Seller Updates and though you may disagree with changes we implement and there will always be room for adjustment as we see the wider impact to our site from updates, we do not take these matters lightly. 

To address your questions as you've requested (point blank), of course there is a person who can make changes to the pre-implementation process. We absolutely perform "test runs" before making changes, and these tests involve very knowledgeable individuals at eBay and experienced members of our Community when applicable. We are an organization made of human beings, so while our goal is obviously to deliver meaningful improvements to the eBay experience, we may miss details or go in a direction that ultimately does not create the positive impact we were hoping for, at which point we will continue to adapt and innovate."

I don't think anyone "really" doubt the fact that eBay with "due diligence" does the work in marketing research and other ideas of "so called "meaningful improvements."

And, I, myself feel quite certain that any ideas of "meaningful improvements" are placed before the Board, in a colorful presentation... I can almost hear their voices, like in,

Concerned Joe: "we're going to get a lot of grievance from mom and pop stores, with this "meaningful improvement."

Table Round: "It doesn't matter, they're a small percentage of the big picture."

Big Chief: "that thought is trivial, we own 'em; they just don't know it." (insert sinister Laugh here) 

Here's a fact: very intelligent people are the easiest people to hypnotize, in fact, by far, far, far more so than less intelligent people.        

[nuclearomen]

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@mobley120 wrote:

Here's a fact: very intelligent people are the easiest people to hypnotize, in fact, by far, far, far more so than less intelligent people.        

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that's true... it's also recently found that very intelligent people swear a lot and use slang... i swear a lot, infact constantly 🤣
https://www.sciencealert.com/swearing-is-a-sign-of-more-intelligence-not-less-say-scientists 
https://daily.lessonslearnedinlife.com/people-who-swear-more-intelligent-honest-and-happier 

[equid0x]

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@nuclearomen wrote:

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@equid0x wrote:

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Perhaps you'd care to expound on the other ways in which Amazon operates and generates revenue? I'd be very interested in hearing from an insider more about how Amazon operates than that which I am currently aware. 

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Just as Ebay has investments and high stakes in other companies, so does Amazon, as of June 2019 (the ones I know of anyways) they own and are part of Amazon's revenue - Whole Foods Market / Ring / Zappos / PillPack Inc. / Twitch / Kiva Systems / Audible. They also make movies/tv series which are part of the Prime which is of course a separate service, they own Fire TV/Stick which has a huge revenue for them (I myself have 3 Fire Sticks), they make Kindle and they also have Amazon Retail Stores (but you pay with your cell phone instead of a cashier...it's like you load funds and use the app to pay)...there is more, but you can look it all up yourself. 

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I am aware of these things. I guess I don't see them the same way you do. They bought Zappos/PillPack to kill them. Whole foods to compete with Walmart in the grocery space. Ring to expand their AI/Search/Surveillance BU(Alexa), Not sure why they bought twitch and I've never even heard of Kiva. I've heard of Audible, but don't know what they do. 

eBay has a much larger portfolio of acquisitions, but they all pertain to the ecommerce/retail space or transaction processing. 

Kindle is an obvious extension of their original bookstore heritage. I don't think they developed it, either. Can't remember that far back. FireTV is kinda an extension of their original media roots. IE not just books anymore.. now we have TV/Movies too. 

Amazon retail stores are an infinitesimally small piece of the pie. 

The thing is... NONE of this actually makes Amazon money. NONE OF IT. 

The only BUs that make Amazon any money are AWS and advertising. Everything else is R&D that hasn't gone anywhere for 20+ years or legacy products they still provide "just because."

Like I said before, the investors were going to dump Amazon about '04-'05 if they didn't show a profit. Amazon bought AWS(cloudfront) to turn a profit which then expanded to advertising biz. Literally NOTHING Bozos ever came up with made a dime, even his original online bookstore biz. 

Oh yeah, don't forget about money losing 2 hour delivery services and drone delivery. 

The thing is here... once the investors pull the plug, the party stops. ALL OF IT. They will, eventually, too because nothing the dude comes up with is profitable. Its all ego stroking by a dude who thinks he can own/run the world. 

[equid0x]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@lasantino wrote:

This is part and parcel the problem..   WHY COULDN'T SOMEONE SET UP A PANEL OF EXPERIENCED SELLERS TO REVIEW THE SPRING SELLER UPDATE BEFORE IT WAS RELEASED.. THOSE SELLERS WOULD HAVE IMMEDIATLY RAISED THIS ISSUE... 

EBAY'S CONTINUAL  ORGANIZATIONAL WORK FLOW PROCESS IS CLEARLY FLAWED... 

Ebay basically shoots first asks questions later.  Its not the first time has happened.   Continued problems surface immediately after ebay makes changes.  Here's my analogy

 So ebay acknowledges that shoot first ask questions later in not an effective way to implement changes.  

someone decides to add a layer of checks before shooting.   so now a group spends time giong over the gun making sure it's clean and ready shoot.  They missed the whole point... how about asking questions before you shoot!..   so ebay says, oh good idea.  They add another layer to the pre roll out stage.. Now they form another group inside ebay that will go and talk to the person in question and find out what he is doing.

guess what happens then.  ebay shoots the guy.  Despite the group having been formed to gather information from the person in question(about to be shot). Despite the group knowing the guy was not a threat.  Ebay didn't set up a process to coordinate the information flow from the group to the shooter.. 

It's just the most back-asward ineffective process control i've every seen in a big company.  

ebay.. how about instead of forming groups ad nauseum that only add layers that confuse an issue.  how about before you shoot.. you ask the guy,, what are you doing here..    oh, ebay says it needs to protect itself from being overtaken by other markets.  NO PROBLEM EBAY.  stand behind a wall and yell at the guy,hey what are you doing here..  THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.    

@Anonymous 

trinton, I can only imagine how stressful your job must be.  Just tell us point blank, please don't double speak or corporate mumbo jumbo.  Is there any person that can actually make changes to the pre implementation process.  Or is ebay such a hodge podge of layer after layer after layer of well meaning management groups  without any ability to act.   Something has got to change. Its not just the actual changes or announcements that ebay makes . It's the seeming lack of the critical "test run" .  And critical to the test run is who is doing the test run!!..  a well meaning test run doesn't do one lick of good if you have people doing the test run that aren't familiar with the nooks and crannies of how things should work.

---

Hi @lasantino, I can confirm that we do seek feedback from a panel of experienced sellers prior to announcing our Seller Updates. The feedback we receive is used to prepare our FAQs and potentially make adjustments to the changes we plan to announce. While it seems that you have the impression we do not perform our due diligence when considering the impact of changes to our marketplace, I can assure you that nothing could be further from the truth - a large number of people work very hard on the initiatives included in our Seller Updates and though you may disagree with changes we implement and there will always be room for adjustment as we see the wider impact to our site from updates, we do not take these matters lightly.

To address your questions as you've requested (point blank), of course there is a person who can make changes to the pre-implementation process. We absolutely perform "test runs" before making changes, and these tests involve very knowledgeable individuals at eBay and experienced members of our Community when applicable. We are an organization made of human beings, so while our goal is obviously to deliver meaningful improvements to the eBay experience, we may miss details or go in a direction that ultimately does not create the positive impact we were hoping for, at which point we will continue to adapt and innovate. 

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I've been here since 2001. Why isn't my feedback valued and credited and included? Why do the blues and mods on the board ignore myself and other experienced sellers' comments?