Shipping Cost Included in 12.5%

[romo.designerbags]

Hi,

I just got off the phone with a eBay and the Rep. did confirm you are now paying 12.5% on your shipping total.

Therefore if you charge $16 for shipping they take 12.5%.  eBay is taking money for a service that you don't make money off of.  Now, if you do make money on the overage of the shipping label price than I could see that being a part of the 12.5% .  So you charge the above $16 under shipping but the label you purchase is actually $10.  Then the difference of $6 should be under the 12.5% not the hole price.  You would loose $1.25.

$16 x 12.5% = $2.00

$6 x 12.5% = $0.75

Two eBay Reps have confirmed this.  If you know anything different please let me know.  I would love to be wrong!

[downunder-61]

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@romo.designerbags wrote:

I understand completely and that was my conclusion.  Up the shipping cost to off set the fees.

I have just started selling Jan. of this year.  I was starting to get it and then BAM... all these

changes so I am learning all the time.  

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Too many seller's were doing just that, so fvf on shipping, sadly it affected the honest sellers as well, not just the fee dodgers. 

[releasethekraken_1]

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@romo.designerbags wrote:

Hi,

I just got off the phone with a eBay and the Rep. did confirm you are now paying 12.5% on your shipping total.

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Yes, they've been doing this since 2011.

[soh.maryl]

You want the FVF to be changed in some way "if the shipping is disproportionate to the item being sold".

I can think of lots of cases where that would be grossly unfair.

Two in particular in my experience:  Sold a vintage Singer sewing machine many years ago for about $35-40.  Shipping was somewhere in the $35-40 range.  Those guys were heavy.

At about the same time, a friend sold a diamond tennis bracelet (or some other diamond jewelry) in the neighborhood of 2K, and shipping with tracking, insurance, etc was about $73.

There is, and should not be, any requirement that shipping and item price be proportionate.

[johnrj1226]

Yes eBay did collect a final value fee on Shipping/handling prior to 2011.  They got it when a seller offered "free shipping" and the  S & H charge was embedded into the selling price.

[soh.maryl]

"all these changes"?

They are not changes.  If you just started selling here, the so-called "changes" were in effect when you started, so they were not really changes, were they?  

[a_c_green]

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

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@jonathankirkland wrote:

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Honestly I feel like that's an old cop-out excuse. Surely this day in age there would be some way ebay could mitigate that and automatically charge the FVF if the shipping is disproportionate to the item being sold.

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@jonathankirkland   Years ago that's what Seller did, they listed their $ 100 item for $ 1 and $ 99 for shipping when eBay did NOT charge Fees on shipping.  So I hate to say it but it was those dishonest Seller of 'yore that caused eBay to charge Fees on shipping.  It is fact, not a cop out excuse. 

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Well, it kind of is, because the direct solution is to deduct the amount that the seller pays for the Shipping label before applying FVF to the remainder (which is what the seller actually receives from the payment).  That way a seller who's gouging buyers with a high Shipping cost will still be paying FVFs on that, but a seller who's charging only actual Shipping cost will not be penalized for doing do. The seller would need to buy his postage directly through eBay so that the cost can be deducted from the sale, although that could be a useful incentive anyway for sellers who are still paying full retail over the counter.

It also gets eBay out of the awkward position of being seen charging a percentage of a seller expense. No other seller expenses incur a percentage fee of the expense itself. (e.g. They don't charge you a dollar for buying $10 worth of boxes, or a dollar for buying $10 of packaging tape, but if you spent $10 on postage, you will be charged a dollar in FVF for that amount, because eBay does not deduct that from the buyer's payment.)

As noted, this has been going on for years and is not going to change. There was a big on-line kerfuffle about it many years ago now when one or two eBay executives were, if I remember right, doing an on-line chat (either the Weekly Chat or a special one), and they acknowledged that the above is correct (postage cost should be deducted if the seller buys the label on-line via eBay, since they can see the cost tied to the sale), but they did not want to put the Engineering resources into fixing it. Coding has always been a weak spot on eBay, and messing about with the Shipping algorithms would be a recipe for disaster. (They did not say that last sentence out loud. 😏)

In short, they will not be fixing it, and they said so. Life ain't perfect.

[allthingssurplus]

After reading your eBay employee post on the way of eBay charging FVF on shipping I about came out of my chair.  I have been on this site five years longer than you.  I have seen all of the crazy stuff being done by eBay and the shipping aspect is by far the largest money grab.  The only true and real statement you made about shipping is, yes the Seller a long time ago ( like 15 years) were making a killing on shipping.  You seem to have forgotten that a little seller called AMAZON came into play offering very fast and most times free shipping.  That stopped the overcharge by eBay Sellers with shipping.  

Now eBay has used that bad Seller practice as an excuse to really make a killing on the backs of the Sellers.  We sell many high dollar items that are heavy and ship in large boxes.  We can have ligit shipping charges for a $100 item that could be $30-40.  So eBay feels they are entitled to their $12.50 on the item and an additional $5.00 for the shipping.  By eBay doing that they become a 17.5% partner in the sale.  In my view that is stealing.  You also say the something about FVF should not be charged on shipping materials, well they are.  On average a sale like the one described will cost $5 in shipping materials not including what the employee is being paid to do the task.  Factoring in the $5 my company is now making $117.50 on a $140 sale.  eBay has no legitimate reason to collect FVF on shipping.  You do point out that eBay is very poor at coding, true.  However they use that to their advantage.  "Its hard for us to figure out how to separate shipping form the sale"  so their answer is to just charge FVF.  That is the money grab.  For years eBay collected sales tax charging no FVF.  Now Managed Payments it is not a problem to collect FVF on that, coding did not seem to be an issue here.  To be fair, those Sellers that do free shipping and the cost of the shipping is included in the sales price I would agree FVF should be charged.  Reason, the Seller is saying it is more convenient for them to not deal with the shipping cost as a separate entry.  However a company like ours that has its own shipping program, ShipWorks, should be allowed to handling the shipping without the intervention of eBays money grab.

A thing about eBay shipping:  Do you know that when you buy a label on eBay you more often than not pay a very high price to ship.  Unlike our shipping program, eBay does not give you all of the ways to ship an item and they do not give you the negotiated rates that most Seller can get from all of the carriers.  eBay will say they do not make money on the rates.  I doubt that, truth be know I would like to see the invoices that eBay pays to FedEx, UPS and USPS.  I'm sure there is a profit being made.  Also, returns, when you purchase a return label from eBay the label they usually offer is the fastest way to get the item back to the Seller.  Which is up to 75% higher than what the Seller could buy on their own shipping account.  We have documented this and sent to CS with no answer back as to the why of it.  eBay does not consider that the Seller has already lost on the sale.  With eBay overcharging for the return label that is like insult to injury.  I'm sure eBay feels that getting the item back quickly is by far best for the almighty Buyer who walks on water, so they can get their refund sooner.  If you think eBay cares about Sellers making a profit you are grossly in error.  This is a numbers game now not a build volume and advance the company long term.  We lose Sellers we just get more Sellers.  Really a sad way to do business.

In parting why are you so concerned with eBays problem with algorithms or coding or engineering resources?  eBay is making a huge profit off of its Sellers NOT ITS BUYERS.  Sellers pay the wages for all eBay employees not the Buyer.  It is expected that a working platform with usable programs, ones not launched 80% and let the Sellers figure them out, for the fees we pay is not an unreasonable expectation.  However to date eBay is not concerned with a working program only one that works hard to dream up new ways to collect fees, just like the banks.

[lepke1979]

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

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@jonathankirkland wrote:

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

eBay definitely needs to do something about this but sadly, if they reduce the fees on shipping some Sellers will list their items for dirt and have a high shipping cost just to cheat the system.

So at the end of the day, the entire shipping end of selling on eBay or any other online venue does NOT "Enhance the Buying Experience" ...

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Honestly I feel like that's an old cop-out excuse. Surely this day in age there would be some way ebay could mitigate that and automatically charge the FVF if the shipping is disproportionate to the item being sold.

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@jonathankirkland   Years ago that's what Seller did, they listed their $ 100 item for $ 1 and $ 99 for shipping when eBay did NOT charge Fees on shipping.  So I hate to say it but it was those dishonest Seller of 'yore that caused eBay to charge Fees on shipping.  It is fact, not a cop out excuse.

I actually just came up with that sliding scale idea for fees on the rest of the post you referenced, it would encourage Sellers to be more accurate and honest to reduce their fees on shipping ... the more I think about it the more I like the idea. 

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One thing Bonanza does is gives you a free $10 on shipping. So if you sell something for $100 + $15. The fees are based on $105. $100 + $10...$100 for fees.

Can still run into issues with fee cheating, but it's a neat idea. Also feel like if you use calculated shipping, it should be excluded in the non-processing fees (or at least discounted), but there are ways to cheat there as well.

[redmodelt]

You could take your stuff to a consignment shop and pay 35% or more!

[marnotom!]

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@allthingssurplus wrote:

You seem to have forgotten that a little seller called AMAZON came into play offering very fast and most times free shipping.  That stopped the overcharge by eBay Sellers with shipping.  

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This brings up an interesting question.  Sellers who offer free or cheap shipping on eBay are usually subsidizing the shipping cost by raising their item price.  How does eBay not charging FVF on shipping give sellers an incentive to offer free or cheap shipping?

[allthingssurplus]

You seem to have missed some points.  I did say FVF on items where shipping is included is a fair charge.  Like you say the Seller has included that cost in the item being sold.  It's when shipping is not included that an issue occurs.  In order to be competitive, it is prudent to price the item at market or consistent with other Sellers selling the same item.  By adding the shipping cost as a secondary item will change the price to someone one in Florida or California allowing them to buy at an overall cheaper price and not paying what the Seller has to have with a free shipping listing to be whole.  If you put more money into the hands of Sellers they will buy more and put that on their shelves and list the product.  In my case we have approx. $4mil on the shelf.  A Seller like me is what eBay should focus on.  At least make an attempt to allow us to profit and have a platform that does not create 90% of our day to day issues.

You seem to have missed the overcharge for return shipping.   That a really big deal and a real money grab.  What's your take on that?

[tdumonde2014]

It doesn't.

[releasethekraken_1]

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@allthingssurplus wrote:

After reading your eBay employee post on the way of eBay charging FVF on shipping I about came out of my chair.  I have been on this site five years longer than you.  I have seen all of the crazy stuff being done by eBay and the shipping aspect is by far the largest money grab.  The only true and real statement you made about shipping is, yes the Seller a long time ago ( like 15 years) were making a killing on shipping.  You seem to have forgotten that a little seller called AMAZON came into play offering very fast and most times free shipping.  That stopped the overcharge by eBay Sellers with shipping.  

You don't seem to understand the issue. It wasn't that sellers were overcharging for shipping, it was sellers SHIFTING the item price to the shipping charge in order to evade fees. Sellers were saving a bundle by taking a $100 item with $10 shipping and converting it to a $10 item with $100 shipping. The buyers didn't care, because the cost was the same to them, but eBay lost 90% of their fee.

A thing about eBay shipping:  Do you know that when you buy a label on eBay you more often than not pay a very high price to ship.

When I buy a label through eBay, I pay the lowest available rate. Please stop making stuff up.

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[monroe67]

Consignment stores have their place, as does eBay.  

There's a very popular and fairly large consignment store in my town that keeps 50% of the tagged price. 
They have to pay their lease on the space.  They have to keep the electricity on.  They have to pay their very few workers.   And I assume they have some sort of alarm and/or security system or service for after-hours incidents.  

When I sell on eBay, I have none of those overhead expenses -- other than my housing and utility expenses that I pay anyway, because my eBay sales have been things from my own home.  

That's why I took two (inherited) table lamps to that store a year ago and was happy with my share of the sale.  I did not want the hassle of packing and shipping, with the risk of damage during shipping, and having to accept return of different lamps or irreparably broken lamps.  

[lepke1979]

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@monroe67 wrote:

Consignment stores have their place, as does eBay.  

There's a very popular and fairly large consignment store in my town that keeps 50% of the tagged price. 
They have to pay their lease on the space.  They have to keep the electricity on.  They have to pay their very few workers.   And I assume they have some sort of alarm and/or security system or service for after-hours incidents.  

When I sell on eBay, I have none of those overhead expenses -- other than my housing and utility expenses that I pay anyway, because my eBay sales have been things from my own home.  

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You may not have those expenses, but eBay has their own costs too. In addition to employees, they have hosting/server costs. As well as "being open" 24 hours and stuff can be seen on a virtual shelf worldwide. Not to mention whatever occasional promos they might have.