eBay

sonoranboutique · ‎10-01-2018

This is about the Service Metrics page (not the Seller Dashboard.) If you go to this page and it says you have a "Very High" rating, starting today you are paying 40% higher fees: https://www.ebay.com/sh/prf/service-metrics

This is based on your "Item Not As Described" return rates, which cannot be disputed, even if the buyer lies about why they returned the item. In a recent Q&A video where someone asks about this, EBay admitted that "incorrect returns exist", but the solution they offered was that they "only measure your performance against closely related peers that face a similar risk."

This is flawed logic, and thus, EBay has admitted to racketeering. Why? The reason "incorrect returns" are incorrect is because they are received randomly and are out of the seller's control. So let's say the peer average in your category is 3 "incorrect returns" a month. This doesn't mean every seller in your category gets exactly 3. Some people will get 0 or 1, while some will randomly get 7 through bad luck. If you are the one with bad luck, you are punished. So EBay has admitted that a certain percentage of sellers with bad luck will be charged extra fees each month.

EBay has admitted that, each month, a percentage of unlucky sellers will randomly be charged more fees for something Ebay calls "incorrect returns", which cannot be disputed.

zamo-zuan · ‎10-01-2018

@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@zamo-zuan wrote:
As I said, I feel very bad for any others in our category, because if we're high at a higher software verification than most businesses have... it must be extremely unfair to sellers who don't have verification + do not do free returns.
That's exactly the point. eBay wants sellers to evaluate how to reduce SNADs.

For some it will mean better descriptions, photos, etc and those sellers likely won't change meaning they'll either pay higher fees or leave.

For a small few it will mean better inventory & shipping management.

For others it will mean identifying specific products that have a high rate of SNADs and choosing to remove those items from their inventory.

And for the rest it means a push into free returns. These are sellers who are doing everything right but they have an unfair peer comparison because of the high-level category evaluation. eBay would love it if every seller offered free returns.
All true. It will probably hit those who sell in categories prone to returns harder~categories such as clothing. But maybe the fact that the category is prone to returns will be represented in the peer comparison.

Our descriptions and photos are on point. We have evidence that the buyers made a mistake. EBay has the evidence as well.

Another case today - a buyers vehicle does NOT match the listing they purchased. It doesn't match the title, or the description, or the vehicle list.

They are insisting that "eBay's vehicle tool told them it matched".

Of course, we have to accept a SNAD for this. When eBay can confirm that we have not changed any information on that listing. EBay has all the proof it needs to CONFIRM that the BUYER purchased the wrong item!

That's my issue with it. Nearly every return we have, we can prove we did not do anything wrong. There's no possible way we can improve the majority of SNAD's we receive. We are not the ones who made a mistake, and the buyers will directly lie, becuase they know eBay will not look at the evidence.

We have this person lying. We have the person today filing SNAD just to attempt to extort a faster response??? Not even because they are doing a return??? She even said in the SNAD "Last I hear from you was 28th, I am hoping for your response"???

And we are "High"? It doesn't make sense. We're high simply because of BUYERS mistakes, and not mistakes of our own.

How are we supposed to prevent our buyers from ordering wrong items when our items have the correct information...?

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-01-2018

@zamo-zuan wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@zamo-zuan wrote:
As I said, I feel very bad for any others in our category, because if we're high at a higher software verification than most businesses have... it must be extremely unfair to sellers who don't have verification + do not do free returns.
That's exactly the point. eBay wants sellers to evaluate how to reduce SNADs.

For some it will mean better descriptions, photos, etc and those sellers likely won't change meaning they'll either pay higher fees or leave.

For a small few it will mean better inventory & shipping management.

For others it will mean identifying specific products that have a high rate of SNADs and choosing to remove those items from their inventory.

And for the rest it means a push into free returns. These are sellers who are doing everything right but they have an unfair peer comparison because of the high-level category evaluation. eBay would love it if every seller offered free returns.
All true. It will probably hit those who sell in categories prone to returns harder~categories such as clothing. But maybe the fact that the category is prone to returns will be represented in the peer comparison.
Our descriptions and photos are on point. We have evidence that the buyers made a mistake. EBay has the evidence as well.

Another case today - a buyers vehicle does NOT match the listing they purchased. It doesn't match the title, or the description, or the vehicle list.

They are insisting that "eBay's vehicle tool told them it matched".

Of course, we have to accept a SNAD for this. When eBay can confirm that we have not changed any information on that listing. EBay has all the proof it needs to CONFIRM that the BUYER purchased the wrong item!

That's my issue with it. Nearly every return we have, we can prove we did not do anything wrong. There's no possible way we can improve the majority of SNAD's we receive. We are not the ones who made a mistake, and the buyers will directly lie, becuase they know eBay will not look at the evidence.

We have this person lying. We have the person today filing SNAD just to attempt to extort a faster response??? Not even because they are doing a return??? She even said in the SNAD "Last I hear from you was 28th, I am hoping for your response"???

And we are "High"? It doesn't make sense. We're high simply because of BUYERS mistakes, and not mistakes of our own.

How are we supposed to prevent our buyers from ordering wrong items when our items have the correct information...?

I have read about that happening~the Ebay's tool told them it was a match but it wasn't. Is there a way you can check that info? Maybe bring it to Ebay's attention? That might cut down on that happening.

zamo-zuan · ‎10-01-2018

@castlemagicmemories wrote:
I have read about that happening~the Ebay's tool told them it was a match but it wasn't. Is there a way you can check that info? Maybe bring it to Ebay's attention? That might cut down on that happening.

We tried calling them about the case. Same as usual. Try to make the buyer happy.

This was the same CSR who was upset that he had 20 calls for similar issues today...

Our CS manager basically said to me, eBay just doesn't care. They can help, but they don't want to.

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-01-2018

@gracieallen01 wrote:
Do you know if there is someplace where ebay specifies the criteria they use to determine a 'peer'? Not just 'sellers who sell similar', but specifics.

Or, is it some super-secret formula - that can be adjusted as needed?

That's a good point~it would almost have to be a fluctuating figure that is adjustable due to the variations of returns not just between different sellers, but between different sellers for different time periods.

Or not~as if they might just use a certain time period and its' returns as the baseline for a year or other term.

z240dude · ‎10-01-2018

Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see they just want more money from higher FVF...I think we would all feel better if they would just be honest FOR ONCE and just raise FVF's on everyone 2%. It's all about money ,just like traffic tickets have ZERO to do with safety and EVERYTHING to do with raising revenue!

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-01-2018

@zamo-zuan wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
I have read about that happening~the Ebay's tool told them it was a match but it wasn't. Is there a way you can check that info? Maybe bring it to Ebay's attention? That might cut down on that happening.
We tried calling them about the case. Same as usual. Try to make the buyer happy.

This was the same CSR who was upset that he had 20 calls for similar issues today...

Our CS manager basically said to me, eBay just doesn't care. They can help, but they don't want to.

Maybe contact Symed (the guy in charge of the catalog~I think that is his name) and he could help. I know that tool isn't the catalog but maybe he can point you, or the info, in the right direction.

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-01-2018

@gracieallen01 wrote:
Do you know if there is someplace where ebay specifies the criteria they use to determine a 'peer'? Not just 'sellers who sell similar', but specifics.

Or, is it some super-secret formula - that can be adjusted as needed?

Hi, Gracie, I wasn't ignoring you but Sweet Tea posted the answer.

I think the formula doesn't change but the figures might.

voguevintage · ‎10-02-2018

eBay does a lot of shady stuff. From this to when they recently raised the price of the Basic Store subscription. This wouldn't have been an issue, except that they raised it for people who even had contracts with ebay to pay for the subscription for a full year to get the reduced rate.

So sellers have to honor their contract, but ebay doesn't?

Someone called in to eBay Radio about this one time and some suit at eBay was on the show and all the guy said was "I see where you're coming from, but that's the way it is."

lordskylark · ‎10-02-2018

Ebay is getting more diseased by the day. I sell mainly used appliance parts, and a majority of the returns are because someone misdiagnosed their problem and/or wants me to pay for them to rent out my part as a free diagnostic service. We try our best to make sure that we sell only working parts and we are honest and take responsibility for any fault that might arise on our behalf (even in several cases where it is obvious that we are being taking advantage of). I have tried everything possible that I know to reduce the return rate and I cannot avoid these types of buyers or get it reduced to an acceptable level. Unless I am able to pre-screen each buyer, and have full control of my returns, I cannot prevent this. I am 100% certain that ebay is lying with their statistics. They state that the average return rate for used appliance parts is 1%. Every person that I know that sells them states that their rate is between 5~10%. Ours is 4% and ebay states that this is very high. (That is 4 out of 100. Even the OEM directly from the company have higher return rates I am told.) Ebay is lying.

lordskylark · ‎10-03-2018

Another thing I thought of...

If all of the selling metrics for returns are based on averages, then a certain group of people are always going to suffer even if they improve. For example, if the current rate is 1% for returns. Let's say every single seller gets their rate down to under 1% and all of the rest of the sellers already at 1% work to get their returns down as well. The average will then be calculated based on those numbers, and the return percentage will now be, let's say 0.25%. And all of those sellers who worked to get down to the 1% average, will still suffer. In this calculation, some group of people will ALWAYS suffer.

sonoranboutique · ‎10-03-2018

@lordskylark wrote:
Another thing I thought of...
If all of the selling metrics for returns are based on averages, then a certain group of people are always going to suffer even if they improve. For example, if the current rate is 1% for returns. Let's say every single seller gets their rate down to under 1% and all of the rest of the sellers already at 1% work to get their returns down as well. The average will then be calculated based on those numbers, and the return percentage will now be, let's say 0.25%. And all of those sellers who worked to get down to the 1% average, will still suffer. In this calculation, some group of people will ALWAYS suffer.

Yes, that's another reason it's stupid to base it on averages. Let's say that 5% of sellers will be "Very High" each month. For a lot of people, the extra fees will either put them out of business or make ebay not worth it. So ebay will continually churn and drive away the bottom 5% of sellers. Getting rid of the bottom 5% of sellers doesn't sound too bad though, right? Isn't it good to get rid of the bad sellers? Well that would be fine, except that many people end up with a "Very High" rating randomly, because buyers decided to lie on their return requests.

So yeah... a metric that randomly singles out sellers and drives them away. Great job ebay!

mycheaperstuff · ‎10-07-2018

A million kudos for @lordskylark!! You are only the second poster that I have seen give ink to this most basic, irrefutable, and argument ending fact.

IT BEARS REPEATING!!!

"in this calculation, some group of people will ALWAYS suffer."

Yes, there will always be sellers with above average return rates... it is the definition of average.

I would add, If sellers are evenly distributed about the average return rate (and I think they would be), then at any one time, all the time, half of all sellers will be subject to the higher fees.

goldrushfinds · ‎10-07-2018

I agree. I believe it's a good example of a company and it's employees overthinking and over managing their site. For example, I sell a lot of used clothing (yah I know, **bleep** category). I am sure that according to their metrics, that they lump me in with all other sellers of used and new clothing. If I sell truly vintage clothing, I am likely to have a higher return rate, due to general wear (even if I disclose all flaws) and greater variability of the items vs someone selling new clothing. And there are also too many other variables within this category, which could effect return rates. Just not a good path to go down on by them. Also like you stated, bad luck of the draw, could send you on a streak of returns. Policy is Nonsense!

bosmingfarg · ‎10-07-2018

what a bunch of gobbledegook !! They are complicating lives just because they feel like it.

softersilk · ‎10-07-2018

One thing has been consistent on eBay boards over 20 years... sellers get mad at the corporation, hear a legal term that they don't understand, and believe that wow, the whole eBay corporation is going to come crashing down. They found the proof.

Because, you know, a multi-national, publicly-traded corporation does not have teams and teams of lawyers on the payroll.