Selling a Watch Under the Authenticity Guarantee Program, When Is Sale Final

[dav10250]

I am selling a watch that qualifies under the authenticity guaranteed program.  I looked at the EBay webpage regarding the program and see that I send it to someone who thoroughly inspects the watch prior to sending to the buyer.  

My decided to not offer returns on my item but just recently became aware of some of the EBay buyer scams about SNAD returns.  Does having a watch go through this authentication process prior to being sent to the buyer eliminate the possibility of a buyer claiming SNAD?  Since the watch has been authenticated and compared to the listing, that argument from the buyer should not exist.  

The EBay webpage dedicated to the Authenticity Guarantee does address when a sale is considered final, but it’s unclear to me.  It states:

What is Final Sale?

For Watches that are eligible for Authenticity Guarantee, an item is considered Final Sale when:

• Item is not eligible for escrow as a payment method.

• Item condition is “New with tags” or “New without tags.”

• Seller return policy for the item is “No returns,” or the item’s return window has closed.

Once an eligible item passes authentication through Authenticity Guarantee, sellers have completed their obligation to the buyer for that transaction.

Transactions that meet this criteria are exempt from Significantly Not as Described (SNAD) claims under eBay’s Money Back Guarantee policy.

My watch is not eligible for the escrow program because it does not cost greater than 10K.  I am not listing the item as New and I am not offering returns in my listing.  If I read this correctly, I believe once it goes through the authenticity review and is sent to the buyer, it is considered a final sale with no returns possible.  Is this correct?  Thank you. 

[certifiedcitynet]

Defrauded sellers can still sue the buyer and/or buyer's credit card issuer in small claims court. 

Our firm once merely threatened to sue a buyer's credit card issuer and notify the media for wrongly ruling in a buyer's favor.  We received a check from the issuer the next day by overnight mail. True story. 

A dealer friend also experienced a similar fraud but it was for a staggering $90,000. We advised him to threaten to sue the credit card issuer and expose the bank to the media. He likewise received an overnight check. 

To threaten a bank with litigation, simply do so by contacting the bank's chief or general counsel. But be careful, because in some states you could be charged criminally with attempted extortion if you do not word your threat properly. 

[dav10250]

@certifiedcitynet 

Do you work for EBay?  I’m confused because in an earlier thread I saw you mention something about certain steps EBay takes to monitor and take down potential fraudulent buyers/scam artists.  

I’m likely being paranoid about getting ripped off, I was unaware of some of the scams.  Is it that common?  I see you sell collectibles, some priced in the thousands.  Have you been scammed?

I guarantee you, if someone rips me off for a few thousand, I’ll be paying a house call to the shipping address to visit the buyer.  

[mezmaridesignercloset]

It's not very advisable to start selling on ebay with a high value item.  I have been on ebay for a long time and still dont list anything over 2k.  If you must sell, and things go south, and ebay does nothing to help you, you can always take the buyer to small claims court, if i'm not mistaken.  BTW, any fraud accomplished through USPS becomes federal offense. At least that's what i heard. 

[dav10250]

Thank you for your feedback.  I’m certainly not new to EBay, but have definitely used it more as a buyer than a seller.   I did sell a watch before with no issues and was unaware of the level of fraud that apparently occurs on here.  I’d expect some, but some of the stuff I’ve read in the past few days is surprising and apparently it sounds like EBay is not overly helpful in these circumstances.  

I have to think anything about a seller saying the item wasn’t as promised in the ad or getting an empty box would not work because it is routed through an authenticator and once it gets in their hands and they approve the merchandise as legit and as advertised, they can’t use the arguments of NSAD or the empty box nonsense.  

[certifiedcitynet]

No, I am not an Ebay employee and you are not being paranoid, which means having an unwarranted fear of being wronged. Buying and selling on Ebay is very risky. Scams are very common.

The trick is to outmaneuver the millions of crooks (yes, millions). A good start will be to Google the article "How to recognize and avoid eBay scams". 

Some simple precautions that we recommend are only using USPS, always using Priority Mail and Signature Confirmation, making HD video recordings to verify contents whenever a package is opened or sealed, using secure packaging, using fiberglass-reinforced security tape, using GPS tracking devices when value warrants them, marking each package "DO NOT FORWARD", taking high quality photos of merchandise, and employing many other common sense measures. 

[coolections]

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@certifiedcitynet wrote:

Because criminals are reading this, too. I do not see Brinks posting about their security secrets. 

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Lame. OK your story then, stick to it. I read your post about threating a CC company going to the media. Yeah, I bet they where real scared. That's an old trick everyone tries using.

[cstpos]

@dav10250  I was told many times on the chat boards that No Returns doesn't mean No Refunds and that if I include No Returns on my listing, that means if the buyer opens a case, they will automatically get a refund AND you don't want the item returned to you.

If you're nervous about getting scammed ( I would be) I would consider trying to sell it in person or to a jeweler. Remember you have to factor in the cost of the listing and selling fees, shipping costs, insurance, etc. versus the protection you get. Scammers look for new sellers, especially ones selling high-value items. Ebay will keep their end of the deal, but that stops once the buyer claims a chargeback with their credit card company.

You could list it as Local Pickup only and require they pay cash, but I'm not sure how that would work if you have to send it to ebay for authentication.

[certifiedcitynet]

I only revealed the obvious security measures that would occur to anyone, not our trade secrets. But like clockwork, a self-proclaimed expert (you) criticizes me as I noted in a prior post. 

You are the expert yet I know nothing, even though our firm has sold millions of dollars worth of merchandise on Ebay (click our "Feedback left for others" and add it up) but you have two feedbacks. Got it!

LOL!

[ittybitnot]

I have to think anything about a seller saying the item wasn’t as promised in the ad or getting an empty box would not work because it is routed through an authenticator and once it gets in their hands and they approve the merchandise as legit and as advertised, they can’t use the arguments of NSAD or the empty box nonsense.  

@dav10250 

What you say rings true for EBAY CLAIMS.  Should a buyer bypass the EBAY procedure and go directly to their payment provider for redress AKA credit card chargeback. none of the EBAY rules and procedures    apply.  

The requirement of a return shipped back to the authenticator is no longer applicable. With a PAYMENT DISPUTE, a return of anything is not required in order for the buyer to get the full refund  (from the seller's proceeds) from eBay. 

That being said, on the surface the "authentication services" look like a viable idea.  If eBay just dispenses with seller protection when a chargeback is filed, it goes back to......

DO NOT OFFER ANYTHING FOR SALE HERE THAT YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO LOSE. 

[dav10250]

Yeah, I don’t understand the smack talk on here.  I appreciate everyone giving advice, we should all be pushing in the same direction here!  

So when you talk about trade secrets you use to filter out the fraudsters, you are talking about your company, not EBay.   Now I understand what you were saying.  I wish you could share some of that info, but I understand. 

[dav10250]

So I just received an offer for my watch.  Are there some simple things I can do to research this potential buyer?  I looked at the rating for the person, it looks good (over 400 feedbacks, nearly all positive) with mostly as a buyer, a few as a seller.   This bidder has been a member for over 10 years which looks good, but I read one of the scams people use to get good ratings is to buy a lot of very cheap items to inflate their rating.  

Can you only view items purchased/sold if they occur within the past six months?  Any feedback on what I should look for is appreciated.  Thank you. 

[jewelbiz]

I read this entire thread & then I clicked on your items for sale.

I see 1 watch.

As a 23 year jewelry seller here, I categorically state you got to be crazy to sell such a watch here now!

It’s too risky…

Whats the hurry to sell that watch?  Everybody wants it & you can easily sell it anywhere!

[dav10250]

I’ve been using EBay for over 20 years and it’s the first place I look to when selling something like this.  I was unaware of the level of fraud.  

The reason I’m selling here, is because my experience from selling watches before is that I can get at least 25% more (even accounting for fees) than I can get elsewhere.  The middle man/reseller pays was below market value compared to what I can get on EBay and since I was unaware of the scams (which is the reason for this thread) this seemed to be the obvious place to sell.   If you have other recommendations of where I can get a great price and sell safely I’d love to hear about it although I don’t think EBay wouldn’t allow that posted on the thread.  

[jewelbiz]

About 1 1/2 years ago a violent crazy scammer wanted an item of mine selling for $1,800.

They tried pulling every new trick in the scammers playbook at the time to get it!

They lied, attempted to steal, cheat Yada Yada Yada.

Scammers are full time thieves.  This all they do full time.  
The last insane move they tried to get away with was to contact their credit card company saying they paid me but I neglected to send their item.

Yes! They had paid me but eBay canceled the sale due to them being a suspicious buyer, & I refunded them completely.  So they were saying I didn’t Mail item after they were refunded.  Why would I send an item when I gave back the money & the sale was over & erased, deleted.

They even went so far to call me on the telephone about this item.

Now whenever I want to sell an expensive item I use local pickup only & sell for cash upon local pickup.

[certifiedcitynet]

If a buyer has already paid for something on Ebay, you can easily Google his name, address, etc. If not, you can still check his entire feedback history as a buyer and seller, which Ebay never deletes. 

The fake feedback scam collapses as soon as a seller blatantly cheats someone. Ebay is wise to this ruse and does its best to maintain an honest environment. 

Be careful about heeding advice from "experts" who post on this site. For instance, ignore their claim that video recordings of package openings/sealings are not evidence and completely worthless. Such recordings absolutely verify contents, and can and have been successfully used as proof in civil and criminal courts. Be sure to tell all buyers/sellers that you have made the recordings. 

Despite our firm's extreme precautions, we may incur our first Ebay loss ever. The buyer claims that the envelope was ripped and contents missing when he received it, but if so, why did he accept it? Ebay is processing the $1,400 dispute. 

But even if we ultimately lose $1,400, it is not even a drop in the bucket compared to the millions of dollars in business brought to us on Ebay in the last few years alone. 

If we lose on Ebay, we can still sue him in small claims court because he is but five miles away!