Sellers must upload tracking BEFORE Estimated Delivery Date to be covered for INR

[couldabeenworse]

Since other threads regarding this have gone off track, I just want to make sure everyone takes note of the Fall Update:

https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/seller-updates/2018-fall/service-metrics-and-shipping.html#m17-...

Starting September 10, 2018, you will be required to upload tracking in the structured data field before the estimated delivery date has passed in order to appeal an "item not received" claim. eBay will not protect you from a claim if you send the tracking number to the buyer via email.

Long story short: if you fail to upload tracking before the Estimated Delivery Date passes and buyer insists he did not receive your order, you will lose the claim no matter what your tracking says.

[ted_200]

If they actually received the package, the tracking number is on it, so you are protecting yourself from pretty much nobody.

Well, the label isn't shouting "Hey, Look!  The postman didn't scan this Delivered, you should open a claim!"... that's (apparently) eBay's job?  IDK.  I don't know... I just see all this as a way to sell more labels on eBay, and discourage buyers from retreiving their "left with neighbor" parcels.  There certainly isn't any upside for sellers.

There is no "protection", btw.  It's about reducing the frequency of losses, not protecting yourself.  Protecting yourself flew the coup about a decade ago around here...

[retrose1]

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@coolections wrote:

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@retrose1 wrote:

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Experienced scammers don't want to get on radar, so they send a message phishing to see if I can prove delivery.  With ebay starting to punish sellers for any case, I think my way is so much better. 

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@retrose1

Experienced buyers know that most all sellers upload tracking  and those that do not are usually scamming. Anyone who did not receive their package yet, and still has no tracking SHOULD ask but should NOT have to. It's just another hoop your making buyers go through for nothing. Upload tracking like a seller should and be done with it. It looks to be Ebay thinks your way is NOT better and thus the new change.

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Actually most of my buyers get their package before the estimated time of delivery so there are no hoops to jump through because the whole reason for keeping up with tracking is moot.  It is the scammers that want to know about whether I can prove they got their item.

[retrose1]

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@emerald40 wrote:

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@couldabeenworse wrote:

ALL users of the PO's services MUST supply a secure location for their packages to be delivered to

I've been hearing that line for 20 years, and have yet to see even a SINGLE document proving that its not baloney, much less defining a "secure location" as an "impenetrable vault".

__________________________________

Bring my mail to my door and it will be secure.

Make me have a clustered mailbox at the end of street, what is my option?

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Get a PO Box.

That idea appears to be as uncomfortable for you as loading useless tracking on every transaction is to me.

[ted_200]

ALL users of the PO's services MUST supply a secure location for their packages to be delivered to - if the buyers are so worried about porch pirates - they should supply that location or get a PO box.

If eBay told buyers this, in point-blank terms, and that it's NOT covered, that would actually do more to reduce any real "Porch Pirate" problems than anything.  This will have no change on real Porch Pirates, but it will create more fake Porch Pirates.

I think their real problem is with managing risk from the new payment processor.  If buyers file chargebacks without the delivery confirmation already immediately available, Adyen will pass the chargeback on to their client (eBay), who will either have to straighten it out, eat the loss, or (eBay preferred) pass it along to the seller's eBay payment account.  Plus, under the new payments deal, eBay now has to deal with the "protection" provisions of numerous other payment processors like Apple Pay, etc. 

[couldabeenworse]

ALL users of the PO's services MUST supply a secure location for their packages to be delivered to - if the buyers are so worried about porch pirates - they should supply that location or get a PO box.

If eBay told buyers this, in point-blank terms

...  they would be full of baloney.

Better to lose a few numpty sellers then send anybody with a porch to shop elsewhere.

[myjunqueyourtreasure]

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, but it will make it very difficult for any seller who (for whatever reason) finds themselves OOS to "do the right thing" and get the item drop shipped to their buyer from another seller here as they won't be able to supply a tracking #.

[emerald40]

a

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@retrose1 wrote:

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@emerald40 wrote:

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@couldabeenworse wrote:

ALL users of the PO's services MUST supply a secure location for their packages to be delivered to

I've been hearing that line for 20 years, and have yet to see even a SINGLE document proving that its not baloney, much less defining a "secure location" as an "impenetrable vault".

__________________________________

Bring my mail to my door and it will be secure.

Make me have a clustered mailbox at the end of street, what is my option?

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Get a PO Box.

That idea appears to be as uncomfortable for you as loading useless tracking on every transaction is to me.

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Again why are you assuming uploading tracking is for your benefit.

As a buyer I want it.  I find it helpful.  I find it reassuring.  And I doubt I am the only one.

[ted_200]

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@couldabeenworse wrote:

ALL users of the PO's services MUST supply a secure location for their packages to be delivered to - if the buyers are so worried about porch pirates - they should supply that location or get a PO box.

If eBay told buyers this, in point-blank terms

...  they would be full of baloney.

Better to lose a few numpty sellers then send anybody with a porch to shop elsewhere.

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I don't feel like doing a research project, but there're requirements about where postal customers may or may not receive their mail, and where the Post Office is and is not supposed to leave mail.  In the past, I've lived in places where the post office would leave stuff on the porch, and other places where they absolutely would not and left a "pick up at Post Office" notice if it couldn't go in the official mail receptacle.  Stealing mail ouf of a mail box is a federal offense. 

I'm not suggesting eBay lecture buyers on postal regulations, I'm suggesting eBay tell buyers we don't issue refunds for INR where the tracking shows it was delivered.  Since that's the policy anyhow (assuming it was an eBay printed label), I think that's just being honest (and potentially reducing the frequency of attempted mail fraud theft), not scaring away buyers with porches.    

[emerald40]

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@ted_200 wrote:

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@couldabeenworse wrote:

ALL users of the PO's services MUST supply a secure location for their packages to be delivered to - if the buyers are so worried about porch pirates - they should supply that location or get a PO box.

If eBay told buyers this, in point-blank terms

...  they would be full of baloney.

Better to lose a few numpty sellers then send anybody with a porch to shop elsewhere.

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I don't feel like doing a research project, but there're requirements about where postal customers may or may not receive their mail, and where the Post Office is and is not supposed to leave mail.  In the past, I've lived in places where the post office would leave stuff on the porch, and other places where they absolutely would not and left a "pick up at Post Office" notice if it couldn't go in the official mail receptacle.  Stealing mail ouf of a mail box is a federal offense. 

I'm not suggesting eBay lecture buyers on postal regulations, I'm suggesting eBay tell buyers we don't issue refunds for INR where the tracking shows it was delivered.  Since that's the policy anyhow (assuming it was an eBay printed label), I think that's just being honest (and potentially reducing the frequency of attempted mail fraud theft), not scaring away buyers with porches.    

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Postal worker told me it is all based on your neighborhood, whether it is considered safe or crime ridden.

[sodelight]

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@pburn wrote:
I would normally agree with you, but we're seeing more and more buyers on these discussion boards who've had sellers scam them with fake address labels or whatever. Just the other day, a buyer had a seller actually print a label and then cover up their name and address with a fake name and address, photocopy it, and slap it on a package.

The tracking number--which the seller left intact--indicated the package was moving along in the tracking details; however, it was going to the wrong address . . .

The more we see of these kinds of seller scams, the less I believe the "delivered" scan should be the only criterion on which an INR is decided.

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It's nice to know ebay is an equal opportunity scamming site for both buyers and sellers. Sellers falsify labels, and buyers send back something else!

I honestly don't know how these people live with themselves. Few seem to have any values or ethics anymore!

[Anonymous]

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@a_c_green wrote:

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@couldabeenworse wrote:

So what are they going to do when they get the notice - drop everything so they can run home and wait with bated breath for the delivery person to start their way down the street?

If the get tracking on the shipment, they can make plans so the package is outdoors for the minimum amount of time.  Porch Pirates are not omnipresent; every minute or hour a parcel is left outdoors increases the risk that it will disappear.

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Hear, hear. Just last night, we got a text from our next-door neighbors who were out of town, telling us that they'd received notification of a package at their house, and asking if we could please pick it up and put it in their garage.

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Absolutely, and weather can be a factor just as much as porch pirates. A package can be delivered on a sunny day, but if it's going to start pouring rain in the evening before somebody gets home they could proactively make plans for the PO to hold the package or ask a neighbor to pick it up.

If I'm expecting a lot of packages one week I will have them held until the weekend and retrieve them all at once from the PO. That can only be accomplished if you have a tracking number. Sign in to USPS, track the package, then enter special delivery instructions which can include holding the package without having to put a hold on your regular mail.

[Anonymous]

There's also the true missing package situation. Items delivered to a neighbor or scanned delivered but got stuck on the mail truck somehow. Timing is important to work with the PO and locate missing packages. Tracking is a needed in these situations and a buyer shouldn't have to message the seller asking for the tracking info.

[ted_200]

Postal worker told me it is all based on your neighborhood, whether it is considered safe or crime ridden.

The Post Office shouldn't be leaving mail sitting out in the open, particularly parcels with big branded logos on them screaming "merchandise inside!".  I don't see how Sellers... or eBay... can be responsible for "Porch Pirates".  That's like trying to hold the seller responsible for a car sold on eBay motors that got stolen from the buyer's driveway.

Lack of a delivery scan (or a tracking #) proves the item wasn't delivered, yet "proof of delivery" doesn't necessarily prove the item was delivered?  I may not know anything about ecommerce, but that is setting off my common sense alarm. 

[couldabeenworse]

That's like trying to hold the seller responsible for a car sold on eBay motors that got stolen from the buyer's driveway.

If seller left it in the buyer's driveway, doors unlocked and keys in the ignition while the buyer was not home, seller would indeed be liable. 

Lack of a delivery scan (or a tracking #) proves the item wasn't delivered, yet "proof of delivery" doesn't necessarily prove the item was delivered?  I may not know anything about ecommerce, but that is setting off my common sense alarm. 

A delivery scan does not satisfy the legal definition of "proof of delivery".  However, eBay is free to define "proof of delivery" that satisfies it's Seller Protection Program.  They just modified that definition to say that they aren't letting the seller off the hook if he doesn't upload traking in time for the buyer to make use of it.

[paulhua3]

... a LOT (between 10 - 15% in my experience) of ebay buyers out there will pounce on any opportunity to scam ...

I'd bet the %-age is well under 1%.  Certainly there are some categories that are scammer magnets, and in some of those categories I think there are very few people who do multiple scams with multiple IDs. 

Items in two categories, stamps and postcards, that include most of the sales in my collectible store, nearly all of which are sent as letter mail with no tracking, are rarely targets, with, in my experience, less than 1 in 5000 claimed as INR.